need advice : table saw

nico

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
94
dear all,
Thinking of buying a table saw ( sorry Festool :-))
I you guys had to choose between :
Dewalt DW744XP
http://www.toolnation.nl/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=3&products_id=1943
Bosch GTS10
http://www.toolnation.nl/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=2&products_id=6454
Makita 2704
http://www.toolnation.nl/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=1&products_id=2615

what is your preference, experience...
(the Dewalt is more 20% more expensive in Belgium)
You have to consider that I'm not a professional woodworker
Thanks in advance for the reactions

Nico
 
I do not have experience of the Makita but I would place the Bosch ahead of the Dewalt in terms of quality. It also appears to be 200 euros cheaper which is compelling.

In the US I think the equivalent Bosch is the Bosch 4100 and is on sale for $600 on amazon.

Sorry!

 
Forget the Dewalt! Dont even think about Dewalt.

Sorry! Edited.  

(I own a dewalt nail gun only because I was just a aprentice and didnt know better lol but I must admit it is good nail gun.

I also own http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?src=froogle&pf_id=656504&name=dewalt&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=44 which struggles to cut 4mm hardboard!

I dont own a dewalt bench saw but I have used the bench saw and they claim they have 2000 watts and to me they feel like they have 10watts becuase they struggle to cut through 2x1 timber quickly and struggles to cut 4x2 slowly and even cuts out.  In the UK DEWALT has really gone down hill the last few years they are becoming DIY tools and most shops I buy my tools from which sell Festool Fein Milwueakee and stuff wont sell Dewalt any more I ask them why and they said customer service and the tool quality is rubbish.)

Its between the Makita and Bosch

Cut Depth @ 90? - Bosch= 79mm  Makita= 89mm                       (0-1) Makita +1

Cut Depth @ 45? - Bosch= 64mm  Makita= 63mm                       (1-1) Bosch +1

Bevel angles:      - Bosch = - 2? 47?    Makita = -0.5? - 45.5?      (2-1) Bosch +1

Power                 - Bosch = 1800 Watts  Makita = 1650 Watts    (3-1) Bosch +1

Weight                - Bosch = 34kg    Makita = 30kg                        (3-2) Makita +1

Max Ripp Width   - Bosch = 635mm  Makita = 650mm                  (3-3) Makita +1

UK Bosch is cheaper than Makita but for you seems to be the other way round

its 3 all for the Bosch and Makita

I think I would personally go for the Makita because I own a makita Compound mitre Chop saw and Kapex and I like them both  but at work we have the large bosch and it feels cheap plastic feels weak and rubbish so I am just using that experience.    It also looks like the makita has the ability to extend length ways so it supports your timber on the other side as well as width for ripping.
 
You might also have a look at Axminster UK.
This fantastic web-shop (one of the best in Western Europe) has some very special offers on Bosch Power Tools.
The GTS 10 including a simple leg-stand only costs 466 euros (397 euros without VAT), while shipping it to Belgium costs 144 euros.
It sounds like a lot of money but in total it only costs 610 euros. While at Toolnation NL this table saw costs 946 euros (without leg-stand).
That's 36% cheaper. It's also a 240 V version and you only need a special plug for using it in Belgium.

I have very good experiences with Axminster and they deliver normal goods within two days from shipping date to Holland.
With ordering a table saw I still have no experiences. But with those prices I cannot control myself?
 
jmbfestool said:
Forget the Dewalt! Dont even think about Dewalt.

It would be useful to the original poster (and lots of other members) if you could give good reasons why they should ignore the DeWalt, and also whether or not that opinion is based on using or owning that saw yourself.

Is it lack of manufacturer's support? Low quality? High price? Lack of assessories? Or is it just the perception that anything by DeWalt isn't worth considering...?

Forrest
 
neeleman said:
You might also have a look at Axminster UK.
This fantastic web-shop (one of the best in Western Europe) has some very special offers on Bosch Power Tools.
The GTS 10 including a simple leg-stand only costs 466 euros (397 euros without VAT), while shipping it to Belgium costs 144 euros.
It sounds like a lot of money but in total it only costs 610 euros. While at Toolnation NL this table saw costs 946 euros (without leg-stand).
That's 36% cheaper. It's also a 240 V version and you only need a special plug for using it in Belgium.

I have very good experiences with Axminster and they deliver normal goods within two days from shipping date to Holland.
With ordering a table saw I still have no experiences. But with those prices I cannot control myself?

Thats where I was looking for the specs hee heee

YEs it is a good price
 
I have to step in for a moment in defense of the Dewalt DW745.  Dewalt take a lot of abuse and I will agree that most of it is deserved.  In most respects they are a homeowner company that makes lower quality tools...I have owned a number of them and moved on years ago.

However, the DW745 is a sweet saw.  Can be carried in one hand, quite accurate, the rack and pinon fence is easy to use and stays accurate.  I owned the Bosch, and after realizing that I never used it to rip anything wider than 12", and after spending way too much of my back's useful life lugging it around, I sold it and picked up the DW745.  I also got a Rousseau stand for it and with those two things together, you are getting an extremely accurate setup that can be carried up to a third floor build out and be cutting before the Bosch is even offloaded from the truck. 

None of these saws are going to match a cabinet saw for smoothness of cut and power, but if that is what you are looking for, you are bound to be disappointed no matter what you get.  With the addition of the Rousseau table, I find the cut and the ease of use of the DW745 to be superior to the Bosch in just about every way.  Even without the Rousseau table, if you are working on narrower material the Dewalt is every bit as good a saw as the Bosch and the fence is better in my opinion.  The only place where the Bosch might have the edge is if you are a person who is not inclined to properly support your material and you like moving large, heavy pieces of wood across your portable saw- then the Bosch's extra girth and weight might give you more stability.  But that is only if you are using the Dewalt by itself, if you have it in the Rousseau stand- forget about it the Bosch is a toy by comparison.

And as long as we are talking about small and accurate- the Dewalt DW712 8 1/2 inch sliding miter is quite good as well.  Italian made, super accurate- likely due to the relatively low weight of the head.

I know, I know, I used to bash Dewalt with the best of them, but hey-I'm giving credit where it is due.  Those two saws are the only Dewalt products that I have been happy with- but they are great.

I took a hard look at my actual working life a couple of years ago and when I realized that I could use much smaller tools to do 90 percent of my work, I unloaded a lot of weight and I gained a ton of accuracy and ease of transport in return.
 
hi nico.

i would buy the makita again and again.
they are a great saw.

never did like the bosch. but thats just me.....

justin.
 
The Bosch - never liked that saw (4100). It always made me paranoid using it. My buddy has one we used to use on jobsites. He cut 3.5 of his fingers off with it. It sits in his basement now. Always got a bid vibe off that saw.
The Makita - haven't used it but their stuff is a lot better these days.
The Dewalt - I'm not a Dewalt fan at all. However I have checked out the Dewalt saw at the store. I have to agree it is a sweet saw. Many of the features and controls are much better designed than on other saws. Every now and then I think about getting a table saw but really, I can do without one for the most part. If I do actually buy one, the Dewalt will probably be the winner.
Hope that helps, Markus
 
Must your saw be portable?  Those saws are great for jobsite work, but if you are not moving the saw around, a cabinet saw or hybrid saw would probably give better results.

I had the DeWalt and upgraded to a Unisaw.  The quality of my work improved a bit and the enjoyment a lot.  The smaller, less robust saws lose their settings easily and to do quality work you will need to calibrate the alignment of the blade to the miter slot and to the fence often.  Angle settings and height adjustments slip after some use as well.  Not critical for rough work, but if you mean to build furniture it matters a lot.

As far as cost is concerned, my sad history is that of the worst possible choices.  I went through 3 of the "cheap" saws before buying a good one.  It would have been much cheaper to buy quality in the first place.
 
Jesse raises a great point. If this purchase is for jobsites, what you are looking at will work. If this purchase is for home/shop use making furniture or fine woodworking, I wouldn't buy any of them. Consider Jesse's points and buy a better unit for shop use if possible. How about 2 MFT/3's, a long rail and a TS75 [big grin]
 
What about Metabo I like Metabo!!! http://www.toolbox.co.uk/metabo-mptts250-ts-250-table-3430-95574

Thing is with Dewalt its a risky buy  its alot of money and alot of their tools do not have the power to do the job its a gamble if the tools does what it says.  My dad has a cheap one dont know what it is 120 quid  and its extremely light so light when the saw starts up it makes it jump and the motor has some power and the blade stops quick  brilliant for site work for just ripping down 4x2 timber flys through it  for quick work I drag it along the floor with the lead its so light.    If you just doing to do quick site work go for something cheap.  It only gets knocked about in the van and the more it can do more can break off and its heavier. 

120 quid is good enough. 

Before any one says anything about being cheap most my tools are Festool, Milwueakee, Fein, Metabo  I only buy german tools now. Sometimes cheap is better though depending on the job.

 
Again, if this doesn't have to be a portable table saw, take a look at the Hammer K3. There's nothing like having a slider.

I don't know what your budget limits are, but they've drastically cut the price, at least for a while.

Hammer K3
 
I just recently (about 2 months ago) bought a Makita LS1013L SCMS and it is great! It has just about replaced my Ryobi (Yes I know it's bad) table saw. So if that is anything to go by I would go with the Makita or maybe the Bosch.
 
So... no Dewalt.
the Festool tablesaws - > a wet dream but a bit pricey ( and as I said ... it's a hobby)
and than suddenly someone came up with the Metabo 250 ... (Does anyone knows if they sell this model in Belgium, or a link with more info)
I'm still hesitating between the Bosch and the Makita, but after reading the comments I think it will be the Makita.

I will visit my hardware dealer this weekend...

So, thank you all for the info,( more info is always welcome)

Nico

PS: Does anyone has some links (you tube) regarding these machines ?
 
You still havent told any one really what you want it for.  I am assuming because your saying your a hobbyist it doesn't have to be portable just movable really?!?!?!??!

You cant fault Metabo for quality and reliability really. 

Metabo does tend to cost more  so to get like same spec you tend to pay more.

I have been lookin at this Metabo my self  http://www.toolbox.co.uk/metabo-mpttkhsml-tkhs-315m-3430-95573
                                                                  http://www.metabo.co.uk/Product-catalogue-halfstationary-and-stationary-tools.23957+M5f3c83e2c17.0.html

but I think I am going to go for the Hammer one spend the extra cash  [crying]

This is little bit the same but not the same lol  just so you can kinda see what metabo is about with their table saws cus I cant find the video of the actual one im on about lol

Youtube link ; Metabo Unterflurzugkreiss?ge UK290 Flexo 500
 
OK,
What I need It for?
My son and I buy houses ( OK, we are now doing our second one, and to be honnest we didn't made much profit from our first our project , especially if you have to count the hours we spend on it. I think we even lost money on it, we learn everything the hard way, but we both love working together, discussing the problems.. .and we both love working with wood, I really like working with MDF ;fantastic material, doesn't cost much, and after painting it , it just looks great).
but still, we work on a budget, so what we need is a good, reliable, portable, precise saw that we can use at home in our garage or on site.
What we need is a mfts : a multi functional table saw ;-) ( we don't need it for cutting rough lumber)

Regards,
Nico
 
jmbfestool said:
You cant fault Metabo for quality and reliability really.  

Metabo does tend to cost more  so to get like same spec you tend to pay more.

I completely disagree with that statement. YES you can fault Metabo for quality and reliability. I have two Metabo machines from their good era, that was until a year or 8 ago. After that they found out the big box stores and started to release tools that competed in price range with hobbyist brands like Black & Decker, Skill and Green Bosch. I really can't say anything good about those tools. They're just lumps of plastic. If you pick them up they're so light you know right away there's not a single piece of hardened steel in it. They have a sander just like the DTS400. before I had my DTS I borrowed one from a friend to do a job and I was amazed at how short I could use it. It heated up really quick and started to make a funny noise. That was like after 10 to 15 minutes with it. Had to let it cool down before I could go further. Not cool.

And I said I have two Metabo tools from before they discovered the bog box stores and the hobbysit market, well I am not satisfied with them either anymore. My Metabo detail sander gave in long before it should and after opening it up I discovered the most important bearing that had to endure the most force was fitted with a plastic part inside. Ridiculous! In a 'quality' tool? You can't use plastic parts in a bearing that gets real hot and gets a lot of force from pushing it to the workpiece. Like it was put there on purpose to act as an auto-suicide. Of course it broke after not that much of work with it and in the proces also tore out the flimsy plastic support of that very same bearing.

And my second Metabo is a jigsaw. I have used this one a lot and I was always very pleased with it and it's still running strong, but unfortunately I can't cut square with it anymore. Don't know if it's the base or the alignment of the blade but I'm cutting at 93 degrees now instead of 90. Btw, when I say 'a lot' I mean, as a hobbyist, which is no where near the amount of time a pro would use it.

I am really disappointed with Metabo. No more Metabo for me. On the other hand, I have 3 DeWalt tools, which, after 12 years still run effortlessly and still look as new.

And Metabo doesn't cost more than other brands. In fact, with most comparable tools, brands like blue Bosch and Makita cost more than Metabo. For instance, this Metabo saw mentioned here, is from the former Elektra Beckum brand of stationary tools, which was bought by Metabo and rebranded into the blue Metablo line (blue Metabo = stationary, green Metabo = hand tools). Elektra Beckum was always known as a 'value' pro brand, which means it was a brand that did make professional tools, but from a bit cheaper materials than other pro brands would so that their tools were cheaper but also didn't last as long. Funny thing, after Metabo took over, the tools became even cheaper. Now I can buy a blue Metabo miter saw for 169 euro at my local big box store while a comparable blue Bosch or Makita cost over 500 and the Kapex 1300. Even a green Bosch (hobby line) costs twice what the Metabo costs.
   
Short to say, Metabo lost my trust as a 'pro' brand.

 
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