need recommendations for new shop cabinets with systainers in mind...

[terpgrad89]

I am new here so be nice. I have moved into a new house that has a 2,400 shop space. I have started building some outfeed tables and such but, because I have a bland slate, I would like to call on those that have been down this road before and ask for suggestions, either written or photo, to help me max out the potential of the shop from an efficiency and aesthetic perspective. Any help along those lines will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

 

[woodferret]

Space optimization, the Sys3 rails are better - although the standard ones you'll have to pull the entire systainer and set it on a table. If you have a 3d printer, you can print ones that have a sliding mechanism. They're not entirely stout and flex a bit compared to a more robust Sys-AZ setup. That leads to heavy tools that go in-and-out of the box frequently... look into either the Sys-AZ or roll your own with drawer slides.

Or... you can do what I do and build small conformant sys carts and just stack everything on wheels and do the sys-cart ballet. Shop cabinets can then be reserved for more oversized stuff like materials, etc.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I am new here so be nice. I have moved into a new house that has a 2,400 shop space. I have started building some outfeed tables and such but, because I have a bland slate, I would like to call on those that have been down this road before and ask for suggestions, either written or photo, to help me max out the potential of the shop from an efficiency and aesthetic perspective. Any help along those lines will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Welcome, being new is not a bad thing. This place is generally very friendly and very informative.
2400 sq ft is quite a large space. It would be helpful to know what kind of machinery you are trying to fit into it and what kind of projects you make.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Here's an outfeed table with Systainer storage and 20-96 dog hole spaced top. It's 4 separate base cabinets that create the base for a semi-torsion box top ("semi" because it isn't ribbed as heavily as what I consider a true torsion box). The trays are designed to accommodate any age of Systainer and even non-Systainer cases.

All-In-One Outfeed & Assembly Table

Flexibility. That’s what I wanted to design into this work table. I wanted it to work with just about any table saw, provide storage in its base and have a versatile work surface. I built this one for the new Saw Stop that’s been added to our model shop,

www.woodpeck.com

 

[terpgrad89]

Welcome, being new is not a bad thing. This place is generally very friendly and very informative.
2400 sq ft is quite a large space. It would be helpful to know what kind of machinery you are trying to fit into it and what kind of projects you make.

The machinery I have will not have too much bearing on my cabinets. All my major machines are set up. I have a new Sw Stop, new 12" jointer and my dust collection is all rolled lip. I am trying to build cabinets that I can have storage but that will also house all my sustainers. Like I said, I have a blank slate and can build anything I want to so I want to take advantage of that unique situation. I am currently going into my shop and sitting and staring at the mitre station I have now and think about how I can significantly upgrade the situation. I recently moved from Maryland to Florida and the house we bought had an attached nine car garage. Now before you think I'm bragging, I'm not. The garage is the same square footage as the house at 2,400 sf. It's the biggest reason we bought the house AND the garage is under air with its own HVAC system. So it's perfect. I just want to optimize the space I have with the most efficient and productive cabinet design. I asked for some ideas but, in the end, because I can't provide a lot of information about specifics, I am just looki9nig for general ideas. Thank you for your response.

 

[terpgrad89]

Here's an outfeed table with Systainer storage and 20-96 dog hole spaced top. It's 4 separate base cabinets that create the base for a semi-torsion box top ("semi" because it isn't ribbed as heavily as what I consider a true torsion box). The trays are designed to accommodate any age of Systainer and even non-Systainer cases.

All-In-One Outfeed & Assembly Table

Flexibility. That’s what I wanted to design into this work table. I wanted it to work with just about any table saw, provide storage in its base and have a versatile work surface. I built this one for the new Saw Stop that’s been added to our model shop,

www.woodpeck.com

Thank you!!

Here's an outfeed table with Systainer storage and 20-96 dog hole spaced top. It's 4 separate base cabinets that create the base for a semi-torsion box top ("semi" because it isn't ribbed as heavily as what I consider a true torsion box). The trays are designed to accommodate any age of Systainer and even non-Systainer cases.

All-In-One Outfeed & Assembly Table

Flexibility. That’s what I wanted to design into this work table. I wanted it to work with just about any table saw, provide storage in its base and have a versatile work surface. I built this one for the new Saw Stop that’s been added to our model shop,

www.woodpeck.com

Thank you.

 

[terpgrad89]

Space optimization, the Sys3 rails are better - although the standard ones you'll have to pull the entire systainer and set it on a table. If you have a 3d printer, you can print ones that have a sliding mechanism. They're not entirely stout and flex a bit compared to a more robust Sys-AZ setup. That leads to heavy tools that go in-and-out of the box frequently... look into either the Sys-AZ or roll your own with drawer slides.

Or... you can do what I do and build small conformant sys carts and just stack everything on wheels and do the sys-cart ballet. Shop cabinets can then be reserved for more oversized stuff like materials, etc.

Thank you!!

 

[smorgasbord]

Ditch the systainers.

No, seriously. You’ve got a huge shop space with no need to travel. Systainers will just get in the way. Can’t see what’s in them and they’re designed to protect the tool in transit. Look at the DF700 as an example. Huge pain getting the tool in and out.

Build open shelves. Maybe drawers under each for related accessories and such. If you want cabinets, make doors with plexiglass panels and put LED lighting inside.

 

[terpgrad89]

Ditch the systainers.

No, seriously. You’ve got a huge shop space with no need to travel. Systainers will just get in the way. Can’t see what’s in them and they’re designed to protect the tool in transit. Look at the DF700 as an example. Huge pain getting the tool in and out.

Build open shelves. Maybe drawers under each for related accessories and such. If you want cabinets, make doors with plexiglass panels and put LED lighting inside.

that's interesting. Thank you for your response. I will consider what you have said.

 

[BarneyD]

I rarely need to take my tools out of the shop. So I also prefer drawers over systainers, since I can fit more into a drawer. I built a couple of mobile carts that fir under the RAS table. These provide storage and double as assembly carts when rolled out. This probably wouldn't work for everyone, but I like it. Just my $.02.

Cheers,
Barney

 

[luvmytoolz]

Rolling carts are the bee's knee's! So handy!

 

[richey]

Ditch the systainers.

No, seriously. You’ve got a huge shop space with no need to travel. Systainers will just get in the way. Can’t see what’s in them and they’re designed to protect the tool in transit. Look at the DF700 as an example. Huge pain getting the tool in and out.

Build open shelves. Maybe drawers under each for related accessories and such. If you want cabinets, make doors with plexiglass panels and put LED lighting inside.

It's better to have a combination of both. Things I don't use often like my Conturo, Trim Kit, and the MKF700 that goes with it stays in the Systainer when not in use but things like my drills and Track saw don't. I dunno why some people get so passionate about insisting you don't use the Systainers.

 

[onocoffee]

I'm definitely a "keep them in the systainers" kind of person - but I've been that way all my life. I still have my old DeWalt DW364 Circular Saw in a metal case.

I get that others like to have their Festool on display and at the ready. Personally speaking, it all just gets dusty. And I'm not a fan of cleaning dusty tools. Plus, wall space in my garage is at a premium so having the tools in their systainers, or boxes, keeps everything handy. Plus, I like the way systainers have that uniform look when stacked neatly in cabinets.

 

[smorgasbord]

I figure Festool must be making serious money on Systainers, otherwise they'd offer many of their tools in cardboard boxes to reduce the price and make their tools more appealing to DIYers.
But, I suspect that's not really their target market.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I find the systainers invaluable in helping reduce a messy work space. Anything I'm using a lot for a period I'll leave out, but being able to put stuff away into stackable cases suits me and my limited space really well!

 

[Hawkeye0001]

I figure Festool must be making serious money on Systainers, otherwise they'd offer many of their tools in cardboard boxes to reduce the price and make their tools more appealing to DIYers.

I've actually become increasingly aggravated about this: until a few years ago the "Basic" variant of every tool was just that, the basic tool in a cardboard box; any "Plus"-variant came with a systainer, the "Set" was the full Monty. I felt that getting my T18 or ETS 150 in a cardboard box for a discount was a perfectly reasonable and environmentally friendly alternative and never found a need to e.g. have my drills stored in a systainer as I use them all day every day. Going on installs it also doesn't make sense to carry 10 liters of nothing around each 700g drill; I just stuff all drills, fast fix and centrotec accessories into one single Sys Combi instead.
If I ever got a systainer I didn't really need it was easy enough to sell them for decent money and lower the cost of the tool that way. Instead I'm having to deal with a whole stack of Sys³ M187 from several drills and drivers that don't need it - but now the systainers sell like sour milk because every Tom, Dick and Harry has one or several too many of that size in their basement for the very same reason.

 

[luvmytoolz]

@Hawkeye0001 I'm the opposite, I've actually bought a bunch of systainers over the years as I use them to store bulk connectors, corner clamps, hardware, etc, in a way that's neat and easy to find and manage.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I figure Festool must be making serious money on Systainers, otherwise they'd offer many of their tools in cardboard boxes to reduce the price and make their tools more appealing to DIYers.
But, I suspect that's not really their target market.

I don't think they have any interest in DIYers or trying to work their way down. At best, it might create a volume demand that they are just not prepared to meet. Then comes the choice of figuring out how to increase manufacturing, cutting cost, outsourcing, etc. That might lead to quality control issues or at least a big investment, either of which is a gamble.
At worst, they try to get the price down, but it's still not enough to break into that segment of the market. So, they have put more thought/effort into it for no gain and reduced the value of what they already had.
Calculated non-risk

That said, I like Systainers, I just wish they hadn't messed with the sizes. They broke the "system" aspect with that move. The whole Bott thing might be more popular in Europe, but I don't see the appeal.
I would like to see other brands step into that arena too, at least offering an option, even if it was a stand alone accessory item. You can get "branded" Systainers from Woodpeckers, Shaper, Mirka, TSO products, Lamello, and to some degree Makita. Fein used to sell one model in a Systainer too, though I don't know if the still do?
The system offers protection for mobile users, as well as organization. In the shop, it also means that things can have a "home", which encourages you to put things away. Also, the ability to keep accessories contained/concentrated, shouldn't be overlooked.

If your CXS is in some bag, rack, drawer somewhere....where is the drill chuck, Centrotech adaptor, 90 degree attachment? Even if you do know exactly where, it's not right there in the same place.
With routers, you can have another Systainer, right there connected to it, with more bits. Sander? extra abrasives, edge protector, interface pad, etc. Domino? the same, cutters, tenons, etc. Jig saw, TS, the list goes on.

It's not that pros don't care about price at all, but the initial outlay is far less important. Reliability, warranty, and repairability, all factor into the real cost of ownership. (which includes the potential cost of missing deadlines)
Depending on your tools, versus hobby use, is completely different.

 

[Mini Me]

I figure Festool must be making serious money on Systainers, otherwise they'd offer many of their tools in cardboard boxes to reduce the price and make their tools more appealing to DIYers.
But, I suspect that's not really their target market.

I think the reason is that their marketing is primarily trade oriented and the hobby part is the cream and not their primary concern. I don't know too much about it but the European building trade must have some influence on this as Festool are only one of the companies that use systainers for nearly all their production. The huge part of the trade market that is largely unseen by hobbyists is the automotive smash industry but I doubt systainers are used to any great extent there. In my case the only tools I keep in plastic boxes are tools we used at the race track but in general systainers are a poor choice for workshop storage, slow to access and if I use a tool I generally put it back straight away and using a systainer in that manner would drive me nuts.

Putting stuff back where it belongs is a time saver, open a draw put it in and then I know where it is when I want to next use it which saves looking through a pile of rubbish accumulated from the work I am doing. I did not always work that way but eventually I came to realise that trying to find stuff is actually very time consuming and causes immense frustration I don't need. Systainers simply don't work in that sort of environment for me and they waste space.

When designing storage solutions if you make it hard to use and putting things where they belong is a hassle it won't get done, tools get lost and sometimes even have to be bought again when something needed can't be found.

 

[smorgasbord]

The interesting, to me anyway, thing is that Festool seems all about job site work, not in a dedicated workshop. This is most apparent in the MFT, which is portable, and the in-systainer tablesaw.

If they were going after workshops, they'd make a bigger stationary table without folding legs. Something hefty to stay put under loads. Same for the tablesaw.

Not that this is bad, mind you, just as I said (and others seem to agree) what their target market is and isn't.