New bandsaw- would you accept this?

[wow]

Agreed that this machine is FUBAR'd. It needs to go back.

I'm sure Laguna will work with you to get an acceptable replacement.

 

[bkharman]

Agreed that this machine is FUBAR'd. It needs to go back.

I'm sure Laguna will work with you to get an acceptable replacement.

I don't agree with the FUBAR comments. That implies "beyond repair/recognition". Does the machine run?  Does it cut straight?  Is the blade tight?  I DO agree that it was banged up and I am on the side where I would complain to get replacement parts and some money back... 

Laguna is a reputable company, so they should make it right for you.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[wow]

Agreed that this machine is FUBAR'd. It needs to go back.

I'm sure Laguna will work with you to get an acceptable replacement.

I don't agree with the FUBAR comments. That implies "beyond repair/recognition". Does the machine run?  Does it cut straight?  Is the blade tight?  I DO agree that it was banged up and I am on the side where I would complain to get replacement parts and some money back... 

Laguna is a reputable company, so they should make it right for you.

Cheers. Bryan.

You are correct, Bryan. I should have been clearer.

It may be just an overwhelming quantity of cosmetic things, but I meant that it is FUBAR'd as far as being a new machine. As in there is no way to make that machine look and feel like a new one. Ever. Just too many things wrong with it.

My point was that he paid for a new machine, and the one he received doesn't qualify.

 

[John H]

I posted this because i wanted to be sure i wasnt being overly picky. Im not sure what laguna will do. Im assuming they wont do too much according to their terrible track record of service. I was very skepticle of buying one of their products. I guess i should have stuck with my gut feeling.....

I think Laguna is aware of their "bad rap" from the past, but I think now they are trying to bend over backwards to make things right.  Give them a chance...

I noted your saw has the mobility mount bolted to the base - did it come like that  (mine came separate and I had to bolt it on)  The reason why I am asking is it makes me think yours was a demo/floor model and was not packed up properly

 

[shaneymack]

I posted this because i wanted to be sure i wasnt being overly picky. Im not sure what laguna will do. Im assuming they wont do too much according to their terrible track record of service. I was very skepticle of buying one of their products. I guess i should have stuck with my gut feeling.....

I think Laguna is aware of their "bad rap" from the past, but I think now they are trying to bend over backwards to make things right.  Give them a chance...

I noted your saw has the mobility mount bolted to the base - did it come like that  (mine came separate and I had to bolt it on)  The reason why I am asking is it makes me think yours was a demo/floor model and was not packed up properly

No the mobility kit came separate.  I installed it.
The machine was definitely new. Just bad workmanship in China.

 

[John H]

another dilemma - do you center the blade on the wheel or do you center the deepest part of the gullet on the wheel [scared]

 

[shaneymack]

So i got a response from lagunas director of sales for Canada. He said they can send me a throat plate and a) new motor covers (both were banged up). He said the fact that the table is out 10 thousandths is possibly that it was tightened down too much. I un tightened it and checked again. Same result. He said he can give me touch up paint for the wheels and for the base but only send me it in the summer due to it being to cold to ship. He said that these damaged were due to shipping. I told him there was no way that the shipping banged up the wheels that way. The table was in a separate box which didnt have a scratch on it but once I took it out of the box i saw the damage. I told him that thisbwas done at their factory and was poor quality control. Lets call a spade a spade and not make excuses... he said he could offer me a resaw king blade or a mobile base as compensation.
I responded that there is noway that i can live with a brand new table that is dinged, scratched and crooked out of the box. I told him the only accessory i need it the driftmaster fence....no response yet.

What would your response be to this? 

 

[John H]

Well, your the one who has to live with it...

Basically, when it gets right down to it - most of the damage is cosmetic, and it sounds like they are going to replace the more obvious pieces, leaving you with the gouge in the table.

Resaw King is considered by many to be the best resaw blade - you can have it resharpened 3 or 4 times and they normally sell in the $250 range for this saw.  Not really sure you need the driftmaster if the the saw is setup correctly and you have a good blade

That is why I like to use my AmEx Card for things like this - I feel very confident that if I wanted to - I could dispute the charge and either get my money back or get a new saw, if that is the direction I wanted to go

 

[shaneymack]

Well, your the one who has to live with it...

Basically, when it gets right down to it - most of the damage is cosmetic, and it sounds like they are going to replace the more obvious pieces, leaving you with the gouge in the table.

Resaw King is considered by many to be the best resaw blade - you can have it resharpened 3 or 4 times and they normally sell in the $250 range for this saw.  Not really sure you need the driftmaster if the the saw is setup correctly and you have a good blade

That is why I like to use my AmEx Card for things like this - I feel very confident that if I wanted to - I could dispute the charge and either get my money back or get a new saw, if that is the direction I wanted to go

Ya i hear ya. I guess i just want the table replaced more than the other things. I dont care much about the motor covers or the touch up paint. And if i were to get a free accesory, the driftmaster would be pretty sweet. The dealer i bought the saw from gave me a 1" resaw blade and a 1/2" 6tpi blade so i dont need a resaw king blade.

 

[rljatl]

I would insist on an exchange or refund.  Dispute the charge now.  Don't wait any longer.  MasterCard and Visa will do that too.

Either that or if the table is the only thing that really bothers you, tell your dealer you want to exchange the table on your saw for the table on his floor model. 

 

[shaneymack]

Tell your dealer you want to exchange the table on your saw for the table on his floor model.

Well i did cc the saleman at my dealer when i responded to the Laguna reps email. I will see what my salesman says once he finds out about the situation.

 

[Holzhacker]

The 10,000 not a big deal. The rest of it total BS. I don't think that's a new saw with all that damage. Just too many dings. If there production line puts out a saw with that many problems they should be ashamed. Probably a return, a demo, a shipping problem from another purchase. NOT new.
I would't accept it. Yes the saw will get banged up but by me using it.

 

[Greg M]

The 10,000 not a big deal. The rest of it total BS. I don't think that's a new saw with all that damage. Just too many dings. If there production line puts out a saw with that many problems they should be ashamed. Probably a return, a demo, a shipping problem from another purchase. NOT new.
I would't accept it. Yes the saw will get banged up but by me using it.

I agree.  Insist on return or exchange and in the meantime start a dispute with your CC.  Sounds like they're pawning off someone else's crap on you.  Why should you fix their mistakes.  Shipping damage or not, it's their responsibility to get the item to you in new condition. 

I'd go for a new saw plus compensation or they loose a sale.

 

[shaneymack]

The 10,000 not a big deal. The rest of it total BS. I don't think that's a new saw with all that damage. Just too many dings. If there production line puts out a saw with that many problems they should be ashamed. Probably a return, a demo, a shipping problem from another purchase. NOT new.
I would't accept it. Yes the saw will get banged up but by me using it.

I agree.  Insist on return or exchange and in the meantime start a dispute with your CC.  Sounds like they're pawning off someone else's crap on you.  Why should you fix their mistakes.  Shipping damage or not, it's their responsibility to get the item to you in new condition. 

I'd go for a new saw plus compensation or they loose a sale.

Im not sure i can dispute the charges on the credit card as i approved the purchase?

I will talk with the Laguna rep tomorrow and see what his response is to me wanting to return this saw.

 

[John H]

The dispute would be over the condition of the saw.

Use it as a last resort - hopefully, it won't come to that

Who is responsible for shipping damage?  Most people think they the vendor is responsible until the item is actually delivered, but that is not always the case. I found out the hard way when I purchased an expensive MiniMax combination machine that ownership transferred to me once the machine left their facility - but fortunately they worked with me to get several items that had been damaged in shipping replaced

 

[sae]

in the meantime start a dispute with your CC. 

Don't dispute if you have any respect for the dealer. It's really hard on small businesses and can affect future business relationships with their card processor. I'd only use it as a last resort.

 

[wow]

in the meantime start a dispute with your CC. 

Don't dispute if you have any respect for the dealer. It's really hard on small businesses and can affect future business relationships with their card processor. I'd only use it as a last resort.

Agreed! PLEASE don't start a dispute unless the dealer has done something egregious - like take your money and refuse to ship what you paid for. Otherwise you are creating a potential shtuff-storm for the dealer that they don't deserve.

Small businesses have a hard enough time staying in business these days. If you have ANY respect for the dealer, please contact them to work it out. And there's nothing to say you can't ALSO contact Laguna at the same time and work the problem from both ends?

BTW, this problem might have originated with the dealer, with Laguna, with the freight company - or some combination of all three. Since the freight company won't talk to you (because you weren't the shipper) please work with your dealer and Laguna to get it straightened out.

May I suggest that you simply contact them and say that you will not accept the machine due to all of the issues? I say that even if the issues are 'merely' cosmetic. I know that Laguna strives to ship a nice-looking machine. You might simply ask "Would you be OK with this machine shipping from the factory if it was in the condition it arrived in?" You can bet that the answer will be 'no'. And by asking like that, all the emotions and finger pointing is gone. From there the only concern is how they (Laguna and your dealer) are going to get you a machine that DOES look like one that they would have been proud to ship.

AFTER you've exhausted all other possibilities - but I doubt it will come to that - then a chargeback is still an option. But recognize that a chargeback may burn your bridges and the dealer may never work with you again. And don't forget that dealers talk, too - just like we FOGgers.

Life is too short - take the high road and give them a chance to make it right for you. You've already documented the issues here so they know people are watching to see how it gets handled.

Let us know if we can help?

 

[Euclid]

Don't dispute if you have any respect for the dealer. It's really hard on small businesses and can affect future business relationships with their card processor. I'd only use it as a last resort.

Understood - and entirely admirable, but I don’t quite understand why the dealer isn’t ‘dealing’ with this anyway; the o.p. doesn’t have a contract with manufacturer does he? Or do things work differently in the Canada?

Supplying replacement panels is one thing, but one of the things that push me over the edge with this, is expecting the buyer to do his own paint touch-up; one wouldn’t accept that with an automobile, a high-end bicycle, or hi-fi (or even a Festool) or whatever. Ok - this is a tool that will get worked and inevitably marked in time, but the scuffs and patina that tell a tale of a life of work should be ‘yours’. It’s up to the purchaser in how immaculate or otherwise a condition he wishes to keep his kit.

The aspect that is always nagging in such cases generally, when something has, apparently, been ill-handled is what other damage or misalignment, as yet undiscovered, might have been sustained.

Assuming this is an item ordered from a dealer, but shipped direct from manufacturer or importer (for the logistical convenience of the dealer) then certainly involve/inform the dealer before the cc company since he will be the first one hit. (Although that would compel the dealer to sort out the manufacturer, which in my view is what should be happening anyway.)

 

[Euclid]

Sorry if that came across as being a bit stroppy; I wasn't meaning to have a dig at dealers, just trying to be dispassionate about due process. As other have said, I always like to give folks a fair chance to sort to put things right (without being take for a ride).

 

[wow]

Euclid:

I think we are saying the same thing in a different way.

If the customer (OP) doesn't find the condition of the saw acceptable - and based on the pictures he posted I certainly would not accept it - his only responsibility to work with the dealer is to either get a new saw, or get his money back. I agree that he should not have to paint parts, replace things, etc. He bought a brand new, pristine saw...but he didn't get one. That's NOT his problem, and the dealer needs to work with the vendor to make it right.

Personally, I believe that saw has been bounced around, hit, bumped, etc. I would never fully trust it. For me it would go back for replacement or refund.

Now, IF the issues truly are only cosmetic (we don't really know) and IF the OP wants to accept a considerable discount for keeping the saw that he has, that's also an option. But it should be his choice.