New bandsaw- would you accept this?

[shaneymack]

I think most people are missing the part about the saw being bought from a Laguna DEALER, not directly from Laguna. What isn't clear is who shipped the saw. Was it the dealer or Laguna? As the OP seems to be in Canada, I'm wondering how that complicates things.

It seems Laguna only sells that saw through dealers. They only seem to sell their industrial saws direct.

What was the origin of the shipment?

It seems the saw has some issues that would be acceptable or borderline acceptable and others that are totally unacceptable.

The saw is from China. My dealer is in Quebec city which is about 2hrs from me in Montreal.  Im not sure if they directly import here or it comes through the U.S. I don't think the dealer is to blame. He wouldnt have been able to see the damage through the box. I bought a supermax 19-38 from him and it is flawless and the service has been great.

I don't think i would have a problem exchaniging saw for saw. I think there would be a problem getting a refund for the laguna and then buying another model. I then would be paying the huge increase that has recently taken place here in Canada.

I have not spoken to the dealer about this yet, the Laguna rep asked me not to implicate the dealer, that it wasn't necessary because he would take care of me. Still waiting for his answer whether or not he would give me the driftmaster as compensation.

 

[rljatl]

You have a limited amount of time to dispute the charge.  It can be for lots of different reasons.  Call your CC company now and tell them about the situation.

That time frame is not close. By law he has at least 60 days. Most credit card companies give you 6 months, and some give you as long as a year to dispute a charge.

Edit - I forgot that he is in Canada. I don't know what the specific laws are there.

Credit card dispute rules about the quality of goods and services received are different than the rules for “billing errors”.  If a product is not received in good condition or is damaged in shipping, I would advise immediately notifying all relevant parties of the situation including the selling dealer, shipper, manufacturer, and credit card company.  You may not want to open a formal dispute with your CC company right away, but I sure would want their system documented with the nature of the issue and noted that I was working through the problem with the dealer, shipper, and manufacturer.

I would notify the dealer so that the dealer can put pressure on the manufacturer.  You don't have to "implicate" the dealer.  Of course, it is not his fault.  IMO, hold out for a new saw.

When one person lets a manufacturer get away with selling a damaged saw, it hurts us all.  Everyone should hold manufacturers to a high standard.  Otherwise, quality will continue to decline.

 

[shaneymack]

You have a limited amount of time to dispute the charge.  It can be for lots of different reasons.  Call your CC company now and tell them about the situation.

That time frame is not close. By law he has at least 60 days. Most credit card companies give you 6 months, and some give you as long as a year to dispute a charge.

Edit - I forgot that he is in Canada. I don't know what the specific laws are there.

Credit card dispute rules about the quality of goods and services received are different than the rules for “billing errors”.  If a product is not received in good condition or is damaged in shipping, I would advise immediately notifying all relevant parties of the situation including the selling dealer, shipper, manufacturer, and credit card company.  You may not want to open a formal dispute with your CC company right away, but I sure would want their system documented with the nature of the issue and noted that I was working through the problem with the dealer, shipper, and manufacturer.

I would notify the dealer so that the dealer can put pressure on the manufacturer.  IMO, hold out for a completely new saw.

I will give the laguna rep a day to get back to me. If he does not i will contact my dealer. I just want to respect what he told me in not contacting the dealer and give him a chance to follow through with taking care of this.

 

[grbmds]

It's very nice to respect what Laguna asked you to do but the dealer is the one who should be standing behind the product, either directly or through Laguna. I'm not sure I understand Laguna's position - They sell through retailers but don't seem to want them to resolve problems with the products they sold? Seems a little strange. Any retailers I've ever bought from are my first stop. If they don't (and for WW tools I have never bought a tool that a retailer didn't stand behind without going to the manufacturer) then the next step would be Laguna. Good luck. Regardless, I believe I'd be asking for a complete replacement of the saw; not just parts.

 

[NH-Engineering]

You have paid for a new saw and than you expect the finish to be in excellent condition. This is something you maybe could have accepted with a used one. However my concern would be that it has been dropped and that the calibration of the whole unit is effected. I would not have accepted any cosmetic fixes, I would have asked for a new unit that shows no signs of heavy impact.

 

[Gary in Texas]

I think most people are missing the part about the saw being bought from a Laguna DEALER, not directly from Laguna. What isn't clear is who shipped the saw. Was it the dealer or Laguna? As the OP seems to be in Canada, I'm wondering how that complicates things.

It seems Laguna only sells that saw through dealers. They only seem to sell their industrial saws direct.

What was the origin of the shipment?

It seems the saw has some issues that would be acceptable or borderline acceptable and others that are totally unacceptable.

Greg,

I think the part you missed was one of the OP's posts stating there wasn't any damage to the internal packing.  As such, this saw was boxed up in this condition.  The marks on the wheels with the covers closed also doesn't happen during shipping.

To the OP, I'm sure you want this saw very much, but, as others have pointed out, it is your right to have a saw that is in new condition, that is what you purchased.  It sounds like to me you are willing to overlook some of the damage if you can be compensated witht the fence.  Have you ran the saw to see if all functions correctly?  I'm not speaking about sawing wood, just run the saw to check it out....

Gary

 

[shaneymack]

I think most people are missing the part about the saw being bought from a Laguna DEALER, not directly from Laguna. What isn't clear is who shipped the saw. Was it the dealer or Laguna? As the OP seems to be in Canada, I'm wondering how that complicates things.

It seems Laguna only sells that saw through dealers. They only seem to sell their industrial saws direct.

What was the origin of the shipment?

It seems the saw has some issues that would be acceptable or borderline acceptable and others that are totally unacceptable.

Greg,

I think the part you missed was one of the OP's posts stating there wasn't any damage to the internal packing.  As such, this saw was boxed up in this condition.  The marks on the wheels with the covers closed also doesn't happen during shipping.

To the OP, I'm sure you want this saw very much, but, as others have pointed out, it is your right to have a saw that is in new condition, that is what you purchased.  It sounds like to me you are willing to overlook some of the damage if you can be compensated witht the fence.  Have you ran the saw to see if all functions correctly?  I'm not speaking about sawing wood, just run the saw to check it out....

Gary

No i didn't even plug it in or put a blade on it yet. Once i saw the damage i decided not to go any further pending a resolution.

 

[Greg M]

How can you negotiate a settlement that's anything short of a new saw if you don't know what's wrong with this one?

 

[shaneymack]

How can you negotiate a settlement that's anything short of a new saw if you don't know what's wrong with this one?

First off, i dont have electrical set up in my shop yet. So testing it is not an option untill my electrician comes in the next week or two.
Secondly, the issues seem to be esthetic.  Those are the issues i am working on getting solved right now. I dont think (hope) that there is anything wrong mechanically. IF there is, i guess i will cross that bridge when i get there.
As I said earlier, my concern with exchanging the saw would be that the replacement would  be just as shotty. I figure putting replacement parts, will get it to the condition i am happy with. Either way, this is an annoying process and not fun for either party involved, me and Laguna

 

[wow]

shaneymack:

In case it's gone unnoticed in these 3 pages of comments, allow me to compliment you on how you are handling this.

Your calm demeanor and 'one-thing-at-a-time' approach is a refreshing change from some of the people we see show up here with a first post who are ready to pick a fight. While their attitude is unfortunately understandable (based on how some manufacturers perform - or fail to perform?) it's nice to see a customer (you) who doesn't view an all-out nuclear war on the dealer and vendor as their first option.

Good luck on your resolution. I am sure it will all work out in your favor in the end - except maybe for some frustration and a little lost time.

 

[grbmds]

How can you negotiate a settlement that's anything short of a new saw if you don't know what's wrong with this one?

First off, i dont have electrical set up in my shop yet. So testing it is not an option untill my electrician comes in the next week or two.
Secondly, the issues seem to be esthetic.  Those are the issues i am working on getting solved right now. I dont think (hope) that there is anything wrong mechanically. IF there is, i guess i will cross that bridge when i get there.
As I said earlier, my concern with exchanging the saw would be that the replacement would  be just as shotty. I figure putting replacement parts, will get it to the condition i am happy with. Either way, this is an annoying process and not fun for either party involved, me and Laguna

For me, if I felt that a possible replacement would be as bad, I could never have any confidence in the saw and would have to push the retailer to refund my money. Plus, without using it, it would be difficult to know there wasn't something else wrong that affected operation of the saw. I have been unlucky with things I have bought over time, but I never just settle. If it's not the way the company describes it or is damaged I always make sure it goes back for a replacement or a refund if the company balks on the replacement.

 

[shaneymack]

shaneymack:

In case it's gone unnoticed in these 3 pages of comments, allow me to compliment you on how you are handling this.

Your calm demeanor and 'one-thing-at-a-time' approach is a refreshing change from some of the people we see show up here with a first post who are ready to pick a fight. While their attitude is unfortunately understandable (based on how some manufacturers perform - or fail to perform?) it's nice to see a customer (you) who doesn't view an all-out nuclear war on the dealer and vendor as their first option.

Good luck on your resolution. I am sure it will all work out in your favor in the end - except maybe for some frustration and a little lost time.

Thanks man! Appreciate the kind words.
I build custom homes for a living and know what it is like to be treated like garbage by irate clients who are unwilling to work with me to find solutions and all they want is to find problems. I really cant stand dealing with those kind of jerks so i guess im trying my best to not be one of them!

 

[shaneymack]

How can you negotiate a settlement that's anything short of a new saw if you don't know what's wrong with this one?

First off, i dont have electrical set up in my shop yet. So testing it is not an option untill my electrician comes in the next week or two.
Secondly, the issues seem to be esthetic.  Those are the issues i am working on getting solved right now. I dont think (hope) that there is anything wrong mechanically. IF there is, i guess i will cross that bridge when i get there.
As I said earlier, my concern with exchanging the saw would be that the replacement would  be just as shotty. I figure putting replacement parts, will get it to the condition i am happy with. Either way, this is an annoying process and not fun for either party involved, me and Laguna

For me, if I felt that a possible replacement would be as bad, I could never have any confidence in the saw and would have to push the retailer to refund my money. Plus, without using it, it would be difficult to know there wasn't something else wrong that affected operation of the saw. I have been unlucky with things I have bought over time, but I never just settle. If it's not the way the company describes it or is damaged I always make sure it goes back for a replacement or a refund if the company balks on the replacement.

I hear ya but unfortunately with everything made in China nowadays its often reality that the quality is not there.  I cannot justify spending 5000$ on a bandsaw (Especially since i dropped 10k on festool this month!!!  ) that is made in italy so i went for this model.
From what i read, the laguna saws work very well. From what i can see, they arent very careful with assembly but i am hoping that doesnt translate to the functionality of the machine.

 

[roblg3]

This situation is terrible!  I would certainly return to the dealer IN PERSON and have a nice discussion with the manager AT THE REGISTER where other customers can hear.  This is not a private discussion.  There's no pressure on the dealer or the laguna rep without them knowing other customers are aware of their practices.  It's easy to be a crook sitting at the computer answering emails...it's another IN PUBLIC.  No yelling or screaming, just statements of your experience with this purchase and how nothing is being done.  Tell him in very specific terms exactly what you will accept and nothing else.  What is the dealers return policy?  For me, it's exchange or return.  If it's return, both laguna and the dealer lose my business, forever!  You bought from the dealer, this is their responsibility to make right.  I would consider it a public service message to NAME THE DEALER so others can be spared this kind of negative experience.  You wouldn't want any of your friends or family to have this happen, would you?  I don't like that this has happened to you, and I don't want it to happen to anyone else either!

 

[shaneymack]

This situation is terrible!  I would certainly return to the dealer IN PERSON and have a nice discussion with the manager AT THE REGISTER where other customers can hear.  This is not a private discussion.  There's no pressure on the dealer or the laguna rep without them knowing other customers are aware of their practices.  It's easy to be a crook sitting at the computer answering emails...it's another IN PUBLIC.  No yelling or screaming, just statements of your experience with this purchase and how nothing is being done.  Tell him in very specific terms exactly what you will accept and nothing else.  What is the dealers return policy?  For me, it's exchange or return.  If it's return, both laguna and the dealer lose my business, forever!  You bought from the dealer, this is their responsibility to make right.  I would consider it a public service message to NAME THE DEALER so others can be spared this kind of negative experience.  You wouldn't want any of your friends or family to have this happen, would you?  I don't like that this has happened to you, and I don't want it to happen to anyone else either!

Not sure you read all the posts in this thread....
I dont blame the dealer whatsoever...j have explained in previous posts.

 

[Iceclimber]

Hands down without question the only solution for me would be a new saw or full refund.

Im also a builder but like my customers i expect what i agree to pay for.

 

[grbmds]

"Not sure you read all the posts in this thread....
I dont blame the dealer whatsoever...j have explained in previous posts."



While it's understandable you don't blame the dealer (and it sounds like it may not be their fault), they are a dealer for this particular product. As a retail dealer for a product, they have responsibility regardless of how the damage happened. Since it sounds like you have not yet contacted the dealer, I think that is the correct course of action. The dealer, by selling the product, takes responsibility to intercede on your behalf when a problem occurs. Otherwise, there is no reason for a retail dealer to be in the mix at all except to provide some sort of add-on cost for the retailer's profit. I'm not blaming the retailer, but, if you ordered through them, then the dealer is automatically your initial contact point no matter what Laguna says. Laguna is in the midst of a big expansion of facilities and is allegedly selling equipment at lower than normal prices, so I have no idea why replacement of the bandsaw is not the first option without question.

 

[shaneymack]

"Not sure you read all the posts in this thread....
I dont blame the dealer whatsoever...j have explained in previous posts."



While it's understandable you don't blame the dealer (and it sounds like it may not be their fault), they are a dealer for this particular product. As a retail dealer for a product, they have responsibility regardless of how the damage happened. Since it sounds like you have not yet contacted the dealer, I think that is the correct course of action. The dealer, by selling the product, takes responsibility to intercede on your behalf when a problem occurs. Otherwise, there is no reason for a retail dealer to be in the mix at all except to provide some sort of add-on cost for the retailer's profit. I'm not blaming the retailer, but, if you ordered through them, then the dealer is automatically your initial contact point no matter what Laguna says. Laguna is in the midst of a big expansion of facilities and is allegedly selling equipment at lower than normal prices, so I have no idea why replacement of the bandsaw is not the first option without question.

If it is not worked out with the director of sales today, i will contact dealer tomorrow. He emailed me last night at 10pm to say he is working on my case and will give me some news today.

 

[Gary in Texas]

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but, it is rather sad to take the position that a replacement saw could be just as shoddy as the one you just had delivered.

I did considerable research prior to my latest bandsaw upgrade from the Jet 14" model.  There were a number of issues reported with the Laguna products, but, more concerning to me was the customer service complaints.  However, Laguna does have a faithful following and several on this forum own and use the Laguna bandsaws and are pleased with the product and service.  I imagine those in favor of Laguna might not be as complimentary if they had received their saw in the condition you received yours....

For that reason, I went with the Rikon 10-351 bandsaw.  Fantastic out of the crate, and 5 year warranty.  I really wanted the Laguna, but couldn't pull the trigger.

Hope you get this resolved in the manner of your choosing. At the end of the day, if you aren't worried about the cosmetics, and you enjoy the saw, that is all that matters!

Gary

 

[shaneymack]

I just called the laguna rep again to get an update. He said that if they replace the saw completely there won't be any compensation like a blade or mobile base because it will cost them a lot to ship it and pick the other one up. IF they replace pieces then they would give me a blade or a base as compensation. IF they do agree to give me the drift master they would not replace the table only the throat plate and the motor covers. I think option 2 and 3 are ok but option 1 seems weird that they would not compensate me when i have to stay home again another day of work to wait for the delivery and still go through a hassle. What do you think?