New "domino killer" dowel guide for drills

[Cheese]

The video must be redone and released.

Or just maybe....the video accurately demonstrates the results you can expect to get using the Trinity. There's been a lot of discussion here on the FOG about the many potential problem areas and maybe the video is a true reflection of the result of all those problem areas when combined.

The video stated that "the Trinity is powered by anyone with an 18 volt drill ", well I don't believe that, that's a pretty cavalier statement to put in the video. The drill would need to have some speed and torque requirements, certainly something over 2500 rpm which pretty much eliminates most 18 volt drills.

Another thought is that if the drill bit becomes dull, you'd likely want to replace all 3 drill bits at the same time as they're only HSS cutters. With each drill bit ground with a brad point end and the shaft having 3 ground flats at 3 different lengths, I'd be interested in finding out how much 3 new drill bits would cost.

Finally, FF to the 5:55 time stamp and you can see when the Trinity is being used in the horizontal position it is momentarily pulled off of being 90º to the material. That slight aberration would have some effect on the proper dowel hole size and fit.

 

[smorgasbord]

1) I find it ironic that at 2:55 he says "no proprietary dust collection," which turns out to really mean "no dust collection at all."
2) When he bashes the metric height gauge and wonder how to "spin around in ¾" ply" it puzzled me because no ¾" plywood that I've seen this century is actually ¾" thick - most are inherently metric. And, of course, as we have discussed here many times, being exactly in the middle is actually a detriment since you could accidentally assemble things flipped.
3) He complains that the height gauge block is "flimsy" and shows it wiggling - but that wiggle is not in the direction of height stop reference, so it doesn't matter to the height accuracy.
4) The "just 3 position side stops with more wobbling" - well, yeah having more positions is better, but using large flip stops instead of paddles slows you down because you have to manually flip them up/down as needed, whereas with the paddles you either just reference from the edge or push into the face and they then automatically retract, but pop out for the next cut. So, that's more efficient. As for the wobble, yeah, not a great look, but that's where the Domino's flat geometry wins over dowels, enabling some horizontal play without sacrificing strength. And the play is always the same so cuts match anyway.
5) He's selling this as a pre-sale to get around Kickstarter fees. It seems obvious that, between his YT channel and Katz-Moses' YT channel, they believe they can get enough exposure without relying on Kickstarter to attract customers.

I don't disagree that the base/fence unit on the Domino could be improved, but I do think such improvements would mostly be for "feel," not accuracy. Klein needs horizontal stops with no play because he's using dowels that have no tolerance for either horizontal nor vertical alignment. But, as noted above, the small fence seems to mean that keeping the unit pressed against the workpiece while drilling in and out with no movement is hard, and with no room for clamps.

There are lots of home woodworkers who would love a Dominio, but can't justify the $1350 to over $1800 cost. At less than ¼ the cost, even expensive dowel jigs like this are far cheaper, but overall I think Triton missed the boat by making their Mafell clone too cheap to be useful.

 

[Packard]

And I always wanted a double-decker biscuit cutter—one that cuts for two biscuits, one above the other with about 3/16” - 1/4” spacing between the layers.

So, I a thousand people will send me $500.00, I will proceed with production and supply each with a working model.

Has this guy ever produced and sold an original in the past? Does he have a production history? Or is he like me, looking for the checks to arrive?

The prototype has all the tell-tales of the modern-looks-like-a-precise-tool: Anodized aluminum parts, brass knobs, laser engraved markings. Those are, of course, not meaningful tell-tales. They are puchased jewelry for mechanical devices.

If the concept means anything to you, I suggest you sit back and wait for the reviews of actual production.

 

[smorgasbord]

Has this guy ever produced and sold an original in the past? Does he have a production history?

Yes and yes.

Inkleind

Inkleind

www.in-kleind.com

Like I said up-thread, his twin-turbo vise is really cool and if I had to remake my bench today, I'd probably find a place to hang one. But, most of his other items are smaller and less complex. I really do wish him the best of luck, and think what he's doing helps woodworkers overall.

 

[Cheese]

Has this guy ever produced and sold an original in the past? Does he have a production history?

Yes as @smorgasbord mentioned he has produced some good products in the past and I've purchased some of those products. However, this time around there is a different vibe going on...the video presentation is different, his camera presence is different and just the way he conducts himself on camera is all different than usual.

 

[luvmytoolz]

And I always wanted a double-decker biscuit cutter—one that cuts for two biscuits, one above the other with about 3/16” - 1/4” spacing between the layers.

For a manufacturer this would actually be a very trivial modification, requiring nothing more than a spacer, extra blade, and an extended bolt to secure them, and of course the little extra room in the frame for the blades.

In effect, exactly how wall chasers are constructed basically with up to 5 or so blades.

 

[rmhinden]

I have his twin 24" twin turbo vice on my workbench. I am very happy with it, both for function (great end vice) and the way it looks. I highly recommend it.

Bob

 

[luvmytoolz]

1) I find it ironic that at 2:55 he says "no proprietary dust collection," which turns out to really mean "no dust collection at all."

Looking at those spline gears I think they'd be clogging up with dust badly pretty quickly.

3) He complains that the height gauge block is "flimsy" and shows it wiggling - but that wiggle is not in the direction of height stop reference, so it doesn't matter to the height accuracy.
4) The "just 3 position side stops with more wobbling"

These actually reminded me of those ads for ladders where they show the other brands up by deliberately shaking them around to make them look rickety and unsafe while trying to use them.

There are lots of home woodworkers who would love a Dominio, but can't justify the $1350 to over $1800 cost. At less than ¼ the cost, even expensive dowel jigs like this are far cheaper, but overall I think Triton missed the boat by making their Mafell clone too cheap to be useful.

For me this is the unfortunate part. Even if it's 1/4 the price of the genuine article, if it doesn't perform anywhere near to the same level, it's effectively worthless.

Sadly it usually takes a lot of wasted expense and time before most people learn to appreciate the "buy once, cry once" saying.

As good as Triton was in making truly innovative gear that was amazing quality and value, they completely missed the mark with the doweller, it was absolutely horrible. As are pretty much all the "killer" clones.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The key difference between the real deal (DF500, etc.) and any mortising jig is that the latter can copy or do only one or some of the functions built-in with the former. So the question to anyone contemplating about buying a real deal boils down to one thing: Is the versatility of the real deal worth the kind of money it is asking.

Agreed 100% there are several ways to accomplish Domino mortices, including an even more expensive Shaper Origin.
The real question is time, what is it worth to you. Commercial entities think nothing of it, but a home hobbyist? That is purely a decision made on an individual basis.
To a guy who might only need it a few times a month, maybe not, speed is not necessarily a factor there.
It's the hate part I don't get.

 

[Packard]

I bought the Rockler Beadlock jig. Back then it was the tenoning machine killer. (Either because th Domino machine was not yet on the market, or it was too new to be killed).

It works just fine. But Good Lord, it is so slow. Each tenon requires that you drill 12 holes.

For s screen door, I installed 12 tenons, 144 drilled holes.

The video fast forwards through the drilling operations. It was supposed to be the demise of all other joinery methods. I have not used it in years.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Agreed 100% there are several ways to accomplish Domino mortices, including an even more expensive Shaper Origin.
The real question is time, what is it worth to you. Commercial entities think nothing of it, but a home hobbyist? That is purely a decision made on an individual basis.
To a guy who might only need it a few times a month, maybe not, speed is not necessarily a factor there.
It's the hate part I don't get.

Sadly there's plenty of that sort of hate around, and even weirder is that a lot think it's a flex!

 

[luvmytoolz]

I bought the Rockler Beadlock jig. Back then it was the tenoning machine killer. (Either because th Domino machine was not yet on the market, or it was too new to be killed).

It works just fine. But Good Lord, it is so slow. Each tenon requires that you drill 12 holes.

For s screen door, I installed 12 tenons, 144 drilled holes.

The video fast forwards through the drilling operations. It was supposed to be the demise of all other joinery methods. I have not used it in years.

Thank you! I was trying to think of this products name earlier, as it's really the only product on the market that I'm aware of that produces a Domino like result (aside from the cheap Asian trimmer/clones) , even though it's exponentially more labour intensive.

 

[mino]

Sadly there's plenty of that sort of hate around, and even weirder is that a lot think it's a flex!

It is a cope by flexing.

The hate is a critical component here - it allows the mind to maintain the necessary suspension of your disbelief in your own fantasy that you are the "smart fella" who got the better of that "fool who wasted all that money on something I got for cheap". Without the curtain of hate, you cannot maintain the suspension .. so you make sure to maintain the hate by finding "reasons" for it.

Of course, the professional con man uses this technique systematically - very common to use envy and jealousy in advertisements. But it is an absolutely real psychological mode for many people so do not assume a con is in play automatically.


If you meet this, I advise against challenging anyone on the hate itself. Doing so means /for the person/ that you are effectively attacking their personal integrity and they will fight you to the breakup of your relations to "defend themselves". Happened to me a couple times .. got the scars .. lost several great friends needlessly.

If you want to "heal" them, focus on the virtues of the item they hate - their hate is shallow /and they know it/ which makes it relatively easily to beat, as long is it is not challenged directly, making them defensive.

/end spam

 

[luvmytoolz]

@mino Yeah I've learnt over the years there's no value in feeding the trolls, and especially those with an axe to grind.

If it's a question on why would someone buy a particular tool or why it might be better, I'll very happily point out what I think are good reasons to buy it or explain how it is better.

The thing I find particularly ignorant and rude is when someone's selling something in a forum, and someone else feels obliged to slag off at the product and price, while espousing how much better value (insert crappy alternative) is.

I find the sense of entitlement and deliberate aggravation insanely wild.

 

[Packard]

Thank you! I was trying to think of this products name earlier, as it's really the only product on the market that I'm aware of that produces a Domino like result (aside from the cheap Asian trimmer/clones) , even though it's exponentially more labour intensive.

On the plus side, the screen door (about 12 - 15 years old) is as solid as the date it was built. Mine is an early version. The one in the video looks easier to use.

If you only need the really strong joint once or twice a year, I have no qualms about recommending it. Stronger than dowels, a tap-in” to fit tight fit.

I see they have a Beadlock option at over $200.00. The basic jig is $40.00. It is not very efficient, but it does not cost $350.00 either, and they currently exist.

 

[onocoffee]

I’m hesitant to drop the “con man” label on Klein because he has produced products, like the Twin Screw, that is of very high quality and usefulness. He recently released a squaring thing for the bandsaw but I haven’t seen much need in my tools for such an apparatus.

The hate for the Domino is real. YouTube creators complain about the comments they get every time they use the Domino. I chalk it up to jealousy but have difficulty understanding the creators sensitivity to the comments. You’re putting yourself out there and critics to nasty commentary is part and parcel of YouTube.

As I mention previously, the Trinity is not presented for us - the Festool user. There’s always going to be hate toward Festool because of the price. But as I’ve participated in other forums, I’ve noted that once the woodworker decides to make the jump and expense to Festool - especially in the realm of Domino, sanders, track saw and dust collection, almost no one reports regretting the expense.