New fesBoschtool drills lol

[pingvinlakrits]

Sae:

Exactly! Start with a narrow "universal" grip and then add different thickness rubbers/molds for width/depth/girth. Brilliant idea!

I work hours a week with my drills so naturally ergonomics are high on the list. With a fat grip there is not much you can do - but you can always add to a slim grip.

 

[TelcoRandy]

Henrik, I have to ask... How do the modular chucks connect to the drill without permanently locking on?

On a side note, does anyone think Bosch will drive Festool out of the drill business? They finally made a drill that does what people have wanted for so long. A modular chuck system that can also accept standard 1/4" hex bits!

 

[thedude306]

They won't push festool out.  People love the green.

That grip is so foolish.  It's going to feel like a new drill to those that have the bosch already, and people like familiarity and comfort.  Getting used to that grip is a big turn off for me.  It looks huge.  I already find my bosch grips bigger then the makita. 

A modular grip is the way to go.  Just like on my hand guns.  If the drill doesn't fit the hand, people won't buy it.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

The dude is right.
People love them Festools. Festool can hardly keep up with the demand it seems, the delivery times are longer than usual over here.

About the Bosch it is a great concept they have got going with their 18V line. I talked to a guy today about their wireless charger plate and it works fine he said - they've used it daily for a few months.

It is a bit frustrating with the FlexiClick; it is a well built machine but if I had been given the opportunity to try it out in hand before ordering it - I wouldn't have bought it! I used it all day today and I think the machine performs as well as expected but the grip left me a bit lukewarm. The drill handles well without the chuck but is a bit front heavy with the drill chuck on, also as expected. Most of the time the drill chuck is off anyway so that is not an issue for me.

But the grip... ...don't get me started on the grip again...

Last thing today I compared it to another colleagues Metabo - the one on the image posted above, 18V LTX quick. The Metabo (and Mafell) grip is much better. The downside of the Metabo LTX quick is that the machine and battery is HUGE. Reasonably light weight but HUGE.

As it stands now I have come to the following conclusion:
I will keep my Bosch 18V machines (three of them) for outdoor jobs. They are excellent for that and the GDX impact is superb. I might add the 18V jigsaw but the investment would stop there for me. For outdoor use the FlexiClick will do great.

When I was assembling/building a kitchen today the Bosch was "fine" but I actually missed my C15 at times. When I got home I had my bonus check from a hardware store in the mail - and it happened to be _exactly_the price of a C15 set with the 5,2Ah batteries...

...after thinking it over and deciding between a new Festool sander (ETS EC 150) or going back to C15 I decided to crawl back to Festool drills and keep my BHC18/C15 as my main interior kit, with the CXS as a sidekick. The new interior for the T-Loc is well thought out and I am happy with it - I will swear every now and then when I will try to work bits straight on the machine but until a BETTER  and not just "different" machine turns out I will stick with the C15 for interior use.

Oh, also I got word from Festool today (sales rep phoned to his Festool source) that a C18 is not going to happen anytime soon. The ergonomics department are not happy with the high torque/ possible wrist strain when using the machine so it is on hold.

Apparently there WILL be a new Kapex though! A smaller unit, due out later this year, probably in autumn. It is not part of the spring/summer release schedule. My sales rep wil get one for himself and I am definitely getting one as my Kapex is stationary in the shop. I have good use for a smaller Kapex on site - look forward to it!

 

[GhostFist]

Smaller kapex might be interesting. I'll see if I'm still interested in 5 years when it finally comes to na. Great write up on the bosch drill! Still trying to get my hands on a metabo

 

[sae]

Last thing today I compared it to another colleagues Metabo - the one on the image posted above, 18V LTX quick. The Metabo (and Mafell) grip is much better. The downside of the Metabo LTX quick is that the machine and battery is HUGE. Reasonably light weight but HUGE.

Was it the SB 18 or the BS 18?

The SB 18 has the hammerdrill function, and adds about 40mm to the length of the drill.  [eek] It's one of the main reasons I opted to skip the hammerdrill function, and let the SDS handle that workload.

I think sizewise, the BS 18 LTX BL is smaller than the T15/T18.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Sae; it was the one without the hammer function and it is still very large and with the drill chuck is is too unwieldy for me.  So it would be the BS 18 LTX Quick.

His model sports the "Impuls" function - which I think is a great feature for anything from drilling metal to large holesaws and removing stubborn screws.

I noticed that the Mafell has the "Impuls" drive.

The dream machine for me would be fast chuck change machine with the Bosch GDX grip, locking hex bit holder, light on/off switch and impuls function, small foot print and lightweight. I don't need a towering 6Ah battery. 

On a side note I played with the Milwaukee fast change system that we discussed before - it locks positively firm but it had some really nasty vobble on all the accessories when mounted!  Machine feels solid though.

 

[sae]

[eek]

 

[mike_aa]

That video looks similar to another that was posted for Festool drills here on FOG a few years ago.

Mike A.

 

[sae]

Yep, it's basically an exact replica.

I want to see sharks and barracuda in the next one.

 

[Wuffles]

I've had a couple of Bosch drills that probably could have done with being dumped into sand before use. It'd hide the smoke that poured out of them under load.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Wuffles:  yup, that would cover up the smoke for sure! [big grin].

I wonder if there is some brand that has a drill that hasn't been smoked.

I haven't had the pleasure of smoking a Bosch - and I hope I won't  [eek]. Nowadays with brushless motors and overload protection it is a bit harder but I am sure that it can be done.

I have smoked a fairly new Metabo 14,4V, a Makita 14,4V and a Festool T15+3. I almost smoked a Panasonic.

The Festool was _backing out_ a screw when it started smoking out a very toxic blue-ish fume. I thought it was concrete dust at first but when I pulled the trigger to "clear it out"  it started belching out smoke like a chimney!  [eek]

There is no drill as of today that I trust as far as I can throw it. The C15 I picked up today suffers from the good old rotation issue - it keeps driving _in_ screws even after you reversed it to back out. It did this four times today already. I need to release and pull the trigger again to make it switch direction. There is no use sending it in - if I get a new one it will do the same. I am surprised more people don't complain about this. I've never seen a C15 that doesn't do this - and I have had four C15 drills over the years. 
Still, it is the least bad drill out there for what I do. I love my CXS to bits and they work fine as a kit.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Minor update:

After using the Bosch Flexiclick the last couple of days I just want to report (after my initial grip bashing) that it is an excellent drill. Wobble-free hex bit holder which runs true and the short size both came in handy several times. After working it a few minutes I didn't think much about the grip issue - until I reached for the GDX impact - everytime thinking "now THIS feels nice".

Drill chuck works great too.

Bought my FlexiClick units as a "bare bones" machine (no batteries, no charger but with L-Boxx) and considering how cheap of an addition it was I am very pleased with the drill. I just hope that they will release a slightly slimmer grip with the next generation/model. It does work fine for me, I am just spoilt by the impact grip which is perfect for me.

 

[Cheese]

There is no drill as of today that I trust as far as I can throw it. The C15 I picked up today suffers from the good old rotation issue - it keeps driving _in_ screws even after you reversed it to back out. It did this four times today already. I need to release and pull the trigger again to make it switch direction. There is no use sending it in - if I get a new one it will do the same. I am surprised more people don't complain about this. I've never seen a C15 that doesn't do this - and I have had four C15 drills over the years. 
Still, it is the least bad drill out there for what I do. I love my CXS to bits and they work fine as a kit.

Henrik,
Did you have the C15 reverse problem right after you purchased it or did it take a while to develop? The reason I ask is because I've had my C15 for the last 9 months and I've never had the issue you describe. Love the drill. Always been a Milwaukee drill guy, but the CSX and now the C15 are slowly changing my mind. Especially the electronic clutch.

 

[tjbier]

Anyone know when this will be available in US? If ever [crying]

 

[Doug S]

I had a play with the new Mafell 18v combi at a tool show yesterday, nice bit of kit, practically identical to the Metabo but thought it looked better in red  [smile]

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Cheese:
I had the issue with all three (counting the one that was exchanged) of my C15's and right from the start.

It does not happen that often and I think that if you release the trigger completely it will not happen. But, if you are driving a screw and need to back it out a bit and have some pressure on the trigger it will sometimes not reverse and keep driving in - even after switching the (mechanical) reverse switch. This is due to the electronics controlling the trigger and is a design fault.
That is what I can make out of it. 

Quite often I have some light pressure on the trigger (to activate the light) and then it will not always reverse when it is supposed to.

There is no other drill on the market that behaves like this that I know of, and I've tried my share so I think it is fair to call it a design fault.
Imagine standing on a ladder with light pressure to activate the light (because Festool light does not stay on!  [mad] ) and then deciding to back out a screw. You flip the switch and counterbrace for the rotation force - and it rotates the other way! That is down right dangerous!!! When driving hole saws I now always check rotation before starting the hole. I shouldn't have to but with the C15 the potential of ruining the start is there.

I still use and like the drill though mostly because it is the closest thing to the old C12 on the market. The CXS is my most used drill/driver though it does lack the punch for some work.

Doug S:
They sure look nice in red, don't they!

TjBier: release date is April in Sweden. They are readily available in many other european countries so hopefully AINA soon!

 

[SMJoinery]

Cheese:
I had the issue with all three (counting the one that was exchanged) of my C15's and right from the start.

It does not happen that often and I think that if you release the trigger completely it will not happen. But, if you are driving a screw and need to back it out a bit and have some pressure on the trigger it will sometimes not reverse and keep driving in - even after switching the (mechanical) reverse switch. This is due to the electronics controlling the trigger and is a design fault.
That is what I can make out of it. 

Quite often I have some light pressure on the trigger (to activate the light) and then it will not always reverse when it is supposed to.

There is no other drill on the market that behaves like this that I know of, and I've tried my share so I think it is fair to call it a design fault.
Imagine standing on a ladder with light pressure to activate the light (because Festool light does not stay on!  [mad] ) and then deciding to back out a screw. You flip the switch and counterbrace for the rotation force - and it rotates the other way! That is down right dangerous!!! When driving hole saws I now always check rotation before starting the hole. I shouldn't have to but with the C15 the potential of ruining the start is there.

I still use and like the drill though mostly because it is the closest thing to the old C12 on the market. The CXS is my most used drill/driver though it does lack the punch for some work.

Doug S:
They sure look nice in red, don't they!

TjBier: release date is April in Sweden. They are readily available in many other european countries so hopefully AINA soon!

Hi Henrik
I've kept updated on this thread as I too have the kind of job where I use a cordless drill most of the day (typically cxs) and I like to see innovation currently in the market place.
If I'm reading this correctly and forgive me if im not, the issue you have had with all of the C15's has occurred when you have had the selector in drive, pressed the trigger, driven the screw and then flipped the drive into reverse while still depressing the trigger?
If that is the case (again apologies if I've misinterpreted) then I'm not surprised that your having issues.
I would have thought that given electronics and clutches in any tools or equipment are there to protect the user and the parts but certainly not when user overridden.
Even slight pressure on the trigger activates the tool and therefore engages the mechanism to drive or reverse as selected. 
I can only imagine it's like driving an automatic car and attempting to select reverse without stopping the vehicle.
To me that's not a design fault but user error, I'd make sure the tool is stopped, depress the trigger, select drive or reverse and then depress trigger again.
The scenario you describe on the ladder would not occur and I would point out that ladders are means of access and not working platforms so please be careful. I know we have all done it but considering the potential consequences it's really something to avoid.
I'm total with you re the light issue. My PDC has a button activated light and it's handy. I also have an early cxs  and this missed feature was definitely a design fault.
Apologies again if I've got the wrong end of the stick with your post.
Good luck.
Scott

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Hello Scott,
I wish you were right about this. 

But unfortunately the C15 has proven to sometimes fail to switch directions. With my oldest C15 I could reproduce the issue at the Festool dealers and after about six or seven switches back and forth with releasing the trigger competely - the machine did not switch direction. It took _two_ trigger actuations to switch direction.  At this point I knew I was not imagining this and since the dealer saw it happen (we managed to make it happen twice and then he was satisfied) they replaced a circuit board and I got the machine back one month later due to lack of spare parts.

As I recall it: later on one of my colleauges grabbed my later C15 at work to loosen some rafters. He switched to reverse on the way to the rafter but did not pull the trigger until he was at the rafter. When "reversing" the machine started to drive the screw _in_ and he was puzzled and nearly lost his balance. He started again and the second time the screw started backing out. Same issue: two actuations to switch direction.

It does not happen very often, it is an intermittent issue but now there are four-five persons who have either witnessed or experienced the issue first hand with my drills.  [sad]

Overall I am very happy with all my Festool gear but apart from the CXS (which I love) and the older C12 the drills don't really impress me all that much. The C15 does well but it does nothing better than the Bosch does and the Bosch sits better in the hand. I love the C handle too much to let the C15 go though.  

 

[sae]

I like it.