New member needs some product advice

[SwissEd]

Good day, I have admired Festools for decades and now I am retired ready for the plunge! I am looking to purchase Cordless plunge saw; Cordless Drill and Eccentric sander.

I have been studying plunge saw TSC 55 Li 2 REBI set SCA-FS (Product ID 575746); TID Compact Driver 18 HPC4 (#576484) or Quad Drive DRC 18 (#576458); Geared Eccentric Sander Rotex RO 125 (576033) as possibilities.

Some background: I am building a studio that will require a lot of framing and screwing wood cladding for roof and walls. Hence a powerful cordless drill (I have a Hilti drill hammer for any concrete). I will need to cut lots of wood as the cladding is narrow and will be screwed to the roof and exterior walls--hundreds of screws, plus the usual framing.  The sander is for furniture I intend to start making (I have a tired Makita random sander that needs replacing) and hear the Rotex is a fantastic device.

I was hoping to find a 'kit option' where I could buy a few devices together (at a discount) and use the same batteries.  There is a kit option with the TID and Quadrive drills, but pretty expensive and I think I can manage with one.

Advice would be greatly welcome on:

1. Which drill would be perfect for my application?  It looks like Quadrive would have a bit more flexibility but heavier to use and if only used on wood perhaps overkill?  Is the TID  18 impact driver--the way to go with the drill?  I have read some very positive reviews about this new drill.

2. Is the TSC 55 cordless plunge saw one that provides most versatility to rip and crosscut along with the wonderful guide rail?

3. Is a wired Rotex much better than the cordless eccentric sanders? And if so, is the 125 a perfect combination in terms of handsize, weight and sanding power or go for 150?

I am in the UK and see there are online "agents" who sell Festool at a small discount and welcome any advice on the best way to purchase "authentic" Festool.  I am a German speaker and if best to contact someone in Germany in German-- kindly point me in that direction as I would expect the German prices to be more competitive than the UK-- but what do I know.

I know I can't go wrong with Festool and the Systainer storage is great!  But given my age this will likely be my 'last power tools' for awhile and long ago, I learned injury is much less likely with quality tools.  Your advice on what combination or products for my needs greatly appreciated. 

Many thanks

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi & welcome to the FOG,

you will get a lot of quality advice here, I'm sure.

I'd like to point out that the TID is a cordless impact driver vs. the DRC being a cordless drill/driver. Given the DRC's gearbox (4 gears) and a top speed of 3800rpm, Centrotec quick-change chuck, classic (jacobs style) chuck - these are completely different animals.

Back in the day, people would use impact drivers to drive large screws/bolts without the chance of hurting their wrist. Today they are used in many different ways, some manufacturers even providing drill bits and other accessories for them.

Personally I'm more of an impact wrench type guy, I rarely come across (wood) screws I can't safely drive with a regular drill/driver. And the bolts I drive, require more power/torque than your typical 1/4" hex impact driver will deliver. But the impact wrenches can still drive a large (wood) screw if necessary. Impact drivers/wrenches, except for the Milwaukee surge series, are also pretty loud. That's another reason, I don't like it for smaller type screws/bolts that can even be driven with a small/compact drill/driver like the CXS.

So yes, you probably can make it with one of them. My personal recommendation would be to get both, meaning to get an impact driver and a regular drill/driver - it doesn't have to be the DRC. Take a look at the C or T 18 for example. However, if you drill a lot of masonry, the DRC + CE Stone drill bits used at 3800rpm make quick work of any holes up to 10mm in diameter that you might need. Personally I'm a big advocate of the DRC/PDC cordless drill/drivers - as the PDC is my most used & go to drill/driver. Others on here, not so much.

I'd prefer the HKC if it's solely about framing. Not saying it can't be done with the TSC, but HKC and corresponding accessories would probably do a better/easier job.

The Rotex is a "do it all" kind of sander, it's a great, exceptional, tool - the question is if it offers any benefits for what you want to do right now or on future projects that makes using it worthwhile over a smaller, more lightweight - solely - eccentric sander.

Remember that the cordless sanders use batteries that can be charged with the same charger you get with the impact; drill/driver; saw. But the "ergonomic" batteries, and the "ergonomic" mains adapter coming with the sander - will only work with the sander(s).

Honestly, before you buy anything - go to your local Festool dealer and check the stuff out, drive a screw with the impact driver and the drill/drivers he has available, cut a piece of wood with a TSC and HKC, maybe even Carvex ... Handle the Rotex vs. the smaller sanders. Compare the cordless to the corded ... You name it, have fun. I'm sure if you set out to buy a set, a local dealer will make you an offer that is worth your while.

The beauty with Festool dealers is, most are well stocked/equipped.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AlexThePalex]

1. Which drill would be perfect for my application?  It looks like Quadrive would have a bit more flexibility but heavier to use and if only used on wood perhaps overkill?  Is the TID  18 impact driver--the way to go with the drill?  I have read some very positive reviews about this new drill.

2. Is the TSC 55 cordless plunge saw one that provides most versatility to rip and crosscut along with the wonderful guide rail?

3. Is a wired Rotex much better than the cordless eccentric sanders? And if so, is the 125 a perfect combination in terms of handsize, weight and sanding power or go for 150?

1 - DRC is a fine drill and not as heavy as you might think. That said, the T18 is an even finer drill and very suitable for your tasks.
2 - TSC55 - sure, fine saw. I have no hands-on experience with it, but people here rave about it.
3 - It is not that one sander is better than the other, it is about which sander is best for which task. The Rotex is more allround, it can do rough, it can do fine, so if you want just one sander it will give you a lot of bang for your buck. But not a 125. The 150 is infinitely better.

 

[Gregor]

Oliver summed it up nicely for most things.

Rotex 150mm is the way to start. Should you find yourself doing large amounts of finishing I would add a dedicated finishing sander (like an ETS EC) to make live easier as is is a more lightweight machines which makes it easier to handle - but thats for when you actually need it, the Rotex will allow you do do ecerything for a start.

Drill a T 18 or C 18 (depending on taste) is a good start in case you want to go into centrotec, in case that isn't your goal and you don't plan on invensting into the festool battery platform I would suggest looking at eg. makita instead.

I second the HKC for framing, the FSK rails are made for this applications. But in case you're not going into the Festool 18V battery platform I would also take look at the Mafell KSS 400.

An extractor is something I would add to the list, a MIDI will do what's needed, especially when when sanding (keeping your lungs and your sanders paper healthy), while allowing you to start down the slippery slope by also support interesting tools like a Domino or routers (the latter when combined with the CT-VA to deal with the massive amount of chips created).

 

[six-point socket II]

(...)

An extractor is something I would add to the list, a MIDI will do what's needed, especially when when sanding (keeping your lungs and your sanders paper healthy), while allowing you to start down the slippery slope by also support interesting tools like a Domino or routers (the latter when combined with the CT-VA to deal with the massive amount of chips created).

How could I forget, +1 on the extractor!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AlexThePalex]

Aber natürlich! Ein Absaugmobil ist wesentlich, das darf mann nicht vergessen. Ohne Absaugmobil ist die Festool Erfahrung nicht vollständig!

 

[TSO_Products]

[member=73403]SwissEd[/member] - Herzlich willkommen in diesem hilfreichen Forum!
I'm not quite clear on your project:

if you will be ripping and crosscutting sheet material, the TS-55 is the way to go.
You will find a FESTOOL FS-WA/90 Fuehrungs Schienen Winkel Anschlag speeds up your work with guide rails (it's the FESTOOL co-produced in GEramny version of  TSO's GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Square). Yes, I'm biased, of course - but read the Reviews or ask anyone.

If your framing timber - the HKS is hands-down your choice.

Dust collection: you'll be forever thankful in so many ways!

Hans

 

[VirTERM]

Good day, I have admired Festools for decades and now I am retired ready for the plunge! I am looking to purchase Cordless plunge saw; Cordless Drill and Eccentric sander.

I have been studying plunge saw TSC 55 Li 2 REBI set SCA-FS (Product ID 575746); TID Compact Driver 18 HPC4 (#576484) or Quad Drive DRC 18 (#576458); Geared Eccentric Sander Rotex RO 125 (576033) as possibilities.

Some background: I am building a studio that will require a lot of framing and screwing wood cladding for roof and walls. Hence a powerful cordless drill (I have a Hilti drill hammer for any concrete). I will need to cut lots of wood as the cladding is narrow and will be screwed to the roof and exterior walls--hundreds of screws, plus the usual framing.  The sander is for furniture I intend to start making (I have a tired Makita random sander that needs replacing) and hear the Rotex is a fantastic device.

I was hoping to find a 'kit option' where I could buy a few devices together (at a discount) and use the same batteries.  There is a kit option with the TID and Quadrive drills, but pretty expensive and I think I can manage with one.

Advice would be greatly welcome on:

1. Which drill would be perfect for my application?  It looks like Quadrive would have a bit more flexibility but heavier to use and if only used on wood perhaps overkill?  Is the TID  18 impact driver--the way to go with the drill?  I have read some very positive reviews about this new drill.

2. Is the TSC 55 cordless plunge saw one that provides most versatility to rip and crosscut along with the wonderful guide rail?

3. Is a wired Rotex much better than the cordless eccentric sanders? And if so, is the 125 a perfect combination in terms of handsize, weight and sanding power or go for 150?

I am in the UK and see there are online "agents" who sell Festool at a small discount and welcome any advice on the best way to purchase "authentic" Festool.  I am a German speaker and if best to contact someone in Germany in German-- kindly point me in that direction as I would expect the German prices to be more competitive than the UK-- but what do I know.

I know I can't go wrong with Festool and the Systainer storage is great!  But given my age this will likely be my 'last power tools' for awhile and long ago, I learned injury is much less likely with quality tools.  Your advice on what combination or products for my needs greatly appreciated. 

Many thanks

Ts-55 is definitely a great saw, just make sure that you will get right blades so you will not overwork it.
As per sanders, my preferred one is ets-ec 125 with 150mm hard pad, for more demanding  activities I use ro150 and for finishing in hard to get locations I use Dts-400.

 

[six-point socket II]

Na wenn alle mitmachen, dann heiße ich Dich auch nochmal auf Deutsch herzlich willkommen in der Festool Owners Group!

(EN: When everybody does it, I won't hold back welcoming you to the Festool Owners Group a second time in German language, as well.)

Viele Grüße/ Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[SwissEd]

Wow-- I am so impressed with the response!  I have a bunch of Land Cruisers and Ih8tmud is a great source of info for all owners, it is thrilling that there is such a community for the amazing Festools!  I am a Yank from Vermont (bin ich auch Deutschsprachig!) and now live in the UK! Go figure! 

I thought that TSC55 is the same saw except cordless TS55-- or am I missing the plot? As an old fart, I won't be doing this full-time but simply building a studio/gym and then plan to return to making selective furniture.  I must confess I haven't figure out the difference between HKS, TS and TSC.  The project will be cutting roof batons, plywood, framing materials etc.

A few strong batteries (5.2a) I thought would suffice and had hoped I could swap batteries with whichever cordless drill I get, but appreciate stronger batteries, longer life more weight! Any tips on batteries to make this a swapable option (saw and drill)? As mentioned I have a workhorse Hilti hammer drill that has served perfectly for 15 years.  So the driving of screws into wood and drilling in wood is what I expect to do with the cordless drill.  So if I got only one drill for this do you think TID is best option? I may succumb and get the kit of combo TID and DRC.

Thanks for the great tip on Rotex 150 and NOT 125.  I can't justify buying 2 sanders and trying to figure that one out.  Can the Rotex 150 handle find sanding, including even say polishing out scratches on Corian?  I wasn't planning to get cordless sander, knowing that sanding projects can take plenty of time-- but heck, maybe folks are using cordless sanders with multiple batteries?? I have a wonderful old Nilfisk vac and there is a Festool adaptor to work with the vac.  But I do now that the Midi and Festool vac is amazing!

Any tips where to purchase in Europe greatly appreciated.  I see there is a range of pricing from online sources-- BUT I only want to deal with an official Festool authorized agent with appropriate warranty etc.  Falls jemand kennt einen gute Deutschehaendler....bitte!

Thanks again for your warm welcome and advice!

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you're in the UK, you need a tool with a UK plug, so best get them from a UK dealer and not in Germany.

On the Festool UK site there should be a page that lists their official dealers.

 

[AstroKeith]

Hi & welcome.

I'm in the UK. I can recommend

www.powertool-supplies.co.uk (my usual goto source with great service & support)
www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk
www.ffx.co.uk

There are others listed by Festool but I believe these are the biggest and best. In fact Screwfix and Amazon hold their own stock quite on a few items and are often competitive.

I support others' recommendations to go check them out at a dealer if you can. The 'feel' is very important IMHO. Also definitely add the extractor to the list. I have a Midi and fully recommend it (even my wife noticed the almost complete lack of dust emanating from my workshop since I got it!)

I don't have a lot of experience across the Festool range. I have a T18 for driving (with a 3AHr battery) and it is easy to use all day. I have a PDC as my portable drill. My portable saw is an HKC55 EB Li which has done everything I have asked of it, but its down to the blades & tracks as well.

I have a Carvex 420, which is OK but wouldn't put it on a must have list.

I do a lot of routing, and have a OF1400 plus various jigs which works well for me.

My choice of portable (Festool) tools was steered by the larger tools I have in my workshop. Pillar drill, Kapex mitre saw, Router Station/Table & Planer.

Since retiring I 'discovered' festool products and have gradually switched over to them, including the systainer storage system.

 

[TSO_Products]

[member=73403]SwissEd[/member] -FESTOOL sources in the UK and a whole lot of other woodworking tools, check out
AXMINSTER Tools and Machinery - by far the UK's largest stockists and sellers of FESTOOL (and TSO Products too [smile]).

www.axminstertools.com

They have 8 amazing stores across the UK and a website to match with a superb customer service reputation. If you're near London's north side, their store in High Wycombe will make you come back often - you're warned [wink]

for sheetgoods:
TS 55 REQ Corded Tracksaw 1,200 Watt, cutting depth 2 1/8"
TSC 55 REB Cordless Track Saw with (2) 18 V Batteries and (2) chargers.
TS 75 EQ Corded Track Saw 1,600 Watt

For framing lumber:
HK 55 EQ Corded framing saw
HKC 55 B Battery powered (1) 18 V Battery  and charger 
both use attached shorter guide rails (not interchangeable with TS 55 series Guide Rails)

hope this helps

Hans

 

[SwissEd]

Thanks for all the input.  I have a drill question.  I have a Hilti TE5 with SDS and screw chuck and all the SDS Hilti bits for concrete-- it has been flawless for 15 years.  It looks like PDC Quadrive is only a bit more money than TID 18 and effectively provides 1 drill to do everything (save 60nm torque on PDC and 180nm on TID-- which is surprising since PCS is much beefier and has 4 gears). The torque settings are key and want to have that ability so I don't overtighten wood screws or sink heads by being 'heavy trigger'.  The bulk of use will be drilling wood and screwing timber to batons, framing etc.  Now even though PDC is only 400g heavier than TID 18, if it provides the same screwing and drilling possibilities PLUS benefit of non-wired Hilti to do concrete, that is great.  Is the feeling that the the PDC in the 'king' for my above described application?

If I go with the Midi basic-- is that fine for sanding with Rotex?  I am leaning to Rotex 125 "so-called all-rounder" given a combination of a variety of sizes (some small stuff as well as larger areas)? Is this mad and marginal price difference the 150 is a better choice?

Many thanks

 

[sancho57]

In the UK, I can recommend
FFX,
Toolfest,
Toucan Tools

 

[AlexThePalex]

Thanks for all the input.  I have a drill question.  I have a Hilti TE5 with SDS and screw chuck and all the SDS Hilti bits for concrete-- it has been flawless for 15 years.  It looks like PDC Quadrive is only a bit more money than TID 18 and effectively provides 1 drill to do everything (save 60nm torque on PDC and 180nm on TID-- which is surprising since PCS is much beefier and has 4 gears). The torque settings are key and want to have that ability so I don't overtighten wood screws or sink heads by being 'heavy trigger'.  The bulk of use will be drilling wood and screwing timber to batons, framing etc.  Now even though PDC is only 400g heavier than TID 18, if it provides the same screwing and drilling possibilities PLUS benefit of non-wired Hilti to do concrete, that is great.  Is the feeling that the the PDC in the 'king' for my above described application?

I am not sure if I read that wall of confusing text correctly, but the PDC is nowhere near the same as your Hilti and not really suited for concrete. Also, don't expect too much of the electronic torque settings, they're very imprecise, you don't get consistent results.

The difference in torque between the PDC and TiD has nothing to do with the gears, but with the mechanism inside. With the PDC, all torque comes directly from the motor, so when the motor turns, the drill shaft turns. But with the TiD the mechanism is indirect and is more comparable to a hammer, with every turn of the motor it hits the shaft once, from the side, then slips, makes a turn to build up momentum, and then hits the shaft again. If you google for impact mechanism videos you can see for yourself how it works.

If I go with the Midi basic-- is that fine for sanding with Rotex?  I am leaning to Rotex 125 "so-called all-rounder" given a combination of a variety of sizes (some small stuff as well as larger areas)? Is this mad and marginal price difference the 150 is a better choice?

Midi basic? You mean the vac? The CTL Midi is a fine vac and very well suited for sanders and most other tools.

The Rotex 150 is always a better choice. You get a lot more sander, you work faster and it works much smoother than the 125. The 125 just sux compared to the 150. The 150 cruises like a million $ yacht while 125 is a jetski where you hit one wave and you're upside down in the water.

 

[six-point socket II]

Thanks for all the input.  I have a drill question.  I have a Hilti TE5 with SDS and screw chuck and all the SDS Hilti bits for concrete-- it has been flawless for 15 years.  It looks like PDC Quadrive is only a bit more money than TID 18 and effectively provides 1 drill to do everything (save 60nm torque on PDC and 180nm on TID-- which is surprising since PCS is much beefier and has 4 gears). The torque settings are key and want to have that ability so I don't overtighten wood screws or sink heads by being 'heavy trigger'.  The bulk of use will be drilling wood and screwing timber to batons, framing etc.  Now even though PDC is only 400g heavier than TID 18, if it provides the same screwing and drilling possibilities PLUS benefit of non-wired Hilti to do concrete, that is great.  Is the feeling that the the PDC in the 'king' for my above described application?

If I go with the Midi basic-- is that fine for sanding with Rotex?  I am leaning to Rotex 125 "so-called all-rounder" given a combination of a variety of sizes (some small stuff as well as larger areas)? Is this mad and marginal price difference the 150 is a better choice?

Many thanks

Hi,

your Hilti TE5 = rotary hammer = concrete/reinforced concrete. It's brute force, when used on certain type masonry it will destroy the chamber system of hard burned, brittle, bricks. The hammer action is axial.

Festool PDC = percussion drill = masonry & light/mild concrete (if any concrete at all, definitely not recommended to use on concrete). It can be useful to overcome though spots when drilling in masonry, but it's seldom really needed. The 3800 rpm and CE Stone (carbide tip) drill bits take care of most anything in terms of masonry. The hammer action is axial & solely for drilling, not driving screws. If you drive screws with the PDC, percussion mode has to be switched off.

Festool TID = impact driver = driving screws with short radial impacts. Trying to describe this as simple as possible: The motor spins, a spring is charged, the spring releases force on a "hammer" and that "hammer" whacks in the same direction that you intend to drive the screw.

If you wanna do it right, there is not one for all. And also I personally oppose this view, I will say that for what you want to do, the percussion mode/function is probably most obsolete out of these. I'd suggest to keep looking for TID & DRC.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I own both a Rotex 150 and a 150/3 sander. I use the Rotex about 1% of the time...like only when I need the more aggressive stock removal capability. Rotex is a two-hand tool and for me, that rules it out for the majority of my finish sanding work. I wouldn't give it up for anything, but it's not my "go to" for general work because of the size and handling it requires.

 

[AstroKeith]

So I should have included Axminster in my earlier list, but they are out of favour with me at present. Price, stock, quality, delivery and support have all been sub-par. So shop around and compare.

[member=73403]SwissEd[/member] -FESTOOL sources in the UK and a whole lot of other woodworking tools, check out
AXMINSTER Tools and Machinery - by far the UK's largest stockists and sellers of FESTOOL (and TSO Products too [smile]).

www.axminstertools.com

They have 8 amazing stores across the UK and a website to match with a superb customer service reputation. If you're near London's north side, their store in High Wycombe will make you come back often - you're warned [wink]

for sheetgoods:
TS 55 REQ Corded Tracksaw 1,200 Watt, cutting depth 2 1/8"
TSC 55 REB Cordless Track Saw with (2) 18 V Batteries and (2) chargers.
TS 75 EQ Corded Track Saw 1,600 Watt

For framing lumber:
HK 55 EQ Corded framing saw
HKC 55 B Battery powered (1) 18 V Battery  and charger 
both use attached shorter guide rails (not interchangeable with TS 55 series Guide Rails)

hope this helps

Hans

 

[Roachmill]

A few more UK recommendations if I may:

FFX (again) - their prices up to now have been very competitive and I've found their CS to have come on over that past few years. They are active on eBay and take part in regular discount promos.... but do check price on their main site as there's usually a difference. Also check their delivery times as they don't keep the more obscure stuff in stock and have to order it in. They're one of my first places to look.

Healy's Tools have been great on price, delivery and their site does a good job of showing what's in stock. Their CS has always been great IMO.

I tend to avoid Axminster these days as they've fought on price but now you pay extra for their site and CS. You'll always find Festool stuff cheaper elsewhere these days.

If you're on Facebook then the "Fesdrool" group is pretty good. A few sellers are active members with Simon Brewer working like a man possessed to make things arrive the next working day. There's also a few group-only discount codes for Keyboards and Tagia Tools.