new mft/3 anybody use t track mounted miter gauge?

[Stone Message]

I have to agree with NEW2FES. The MFT3 fence system has way to much flex in it. It drove me crazy trying to make square cuts on it. After months of messing around with it, got mad and drilled through the fence and bolted it down. Well that warped the fence. Ended up pitching the fence and making one out of a old delta sliding table fence. Cuts are dead on now and can have table much closer to wall. As for table being portable, really?

I took a leaf out of Paul Marcel's book and got an extra fence clamp. It is an excellent addition if you are using rear fence and guide rail.

Peter

 

[foxvalley63]

I tried the back fence setup with the "black thingy" attached to the rear rail, the plastic hook didn't hold so I jammed a shim in it. That worked but the fence from the protractor to the right still flexed. Thats why I drilled it.

 

[jonathan-m]

I'll join team unhappy with my MFT/3. Some of my personal findings:

To be clear, the MFT/3 does work. It can be set to precision (and I constantly have to). The problem is the precision is lost after a few operations and you constantly have to fiddle with the fence/miter gauge to keep it from going out of square.
I'm sorry having to be blunt and say that after everything I've tried, even on a second MFT/3, I simply cannot believe anyone who says their MFT/3 is perfect and does not exibit problems.

MFT issues summary:
- It's not stable. (Cross braces help a lot, but really these should come with the standard package shouldn't they)
- The miter guage is sloppy.
- The fence doesn't stay put.

When you place your miter gauge as close to the guide rail as possible and apply just a little pressure to the part of the fence that slides under the rail, you'll see it flexes back by 2mm.

I've tried PaulMarcel's setup of attaching the fence with 2 rail fixing clamps. But only using 2 of these clamps and not the miter gauge I can't fix the fence in place no matter how hard I bolt it down. The fence totally moves out of square after a couple of sheets have been butted against it. It can't be locked down hard enough to stay in place with this method.

Now before everyone comes arguing, my unit is not faulty. I've tried all this on a second MFT/3. I've also been searching for months, and keep doing so, for Youtube videos on the MFT/3. I've tried just about anything under the rainbow except for permanently fixing it to the table.

This sadly makes me conclude the fence & sloppy miter gauge design is flawed and could definitely be improved.

As to the portability. Technically it is portable. You just have to be a pretty strong guy to move it from a van, through a house and up some stairs with ease.
I have a love/hate realtionship with the MFT/3. It's a good concept and when I have it dialled in it performs lovely. I'm just annoyed to no end I have to keep re-setting it after 20 cuts.

 

[tiralie]

When you place your miter gauge as close to the guide rail as possible and apply just a little pressure to the part of the fence that slides under the rail, you'll see it flexes back by 2mm.

I've tried PaulMarcel's setup of attaching the fence with 2 rail fixing clamps. But only using 2 of these clamps and not the miter gauge I can't fix the fence in place no matter how hard I bolt it down. The fence totally moves out of square after a couple of sheets have been butted against it. It can't be locked down hard enough to stay in place with this method.

Line up the straight edge to a row of holes and before you tighten it to the miter gauge put some Qwas dogs behind them. You will find the slight tension the miter gauge puts on the straight edge holds it from flexing when you put stock against it.
Tim

 

[jonathan-m]

Tim, that isn't the problem. Like I said, I can set the MFT/3 up to be as good as perfectly square. The problem I'm trying to describe is that when you butt up a thin piece of wood to the fence, It can flex out of alignment by about 2mm at the point of cut. So that's 2mm over the distance of about 20cm of fence...

 

[tiralie]

I will take a photo and post later, got some cleaning to do.
If I understand you correctly when you say fence you are referring to the thinner aluminum extrusion held in place by the miter gauge and end clamp not the rail?
I leave the dogs in on either side of the miter gauge after I tighten it. I put one at the end of the fence and put one close to the cutting edge. It is so close to the cutting edge it is covered by the rail.
I don't get any flex in the fence.

If you are referring to the rail, yes there is a bit of play which someone here (I can't remember who) has come up with a solution for.

Tim

 

[GhostFist]

I have to say, reading on the FOG has swayed me from purchasing an MFT/3. Most reviews are positive but common themes show up such has adjustments and extra jigs necessary for accurate and repeatable cuts. I might as well build my own. See Guido 

 

[Guilliaume woodworks]

I like mft. But I only use mine for 90 degree crosscuts . I've anchored fence to table, I've installed the SlopStop on guide rail & use qwas dogs every chance I get. I also treat it gently & periodically check for accuracy. In the process of building larger & longer version of mft. Will post pics when finished. Not gonna be portable though.

 

[Stone Message]

I like mft. But I only use mine for 90 degree crosscuts . I've anchored fence to table, I've installed the SlopStop on guide rail & use qwas dogs every chance I get. I also treat it gently & periodically check for accuracy. In the process of building larger & longer version of mft. Will post pics when finished. Not gonna be portable though.

I think Guilliaume is right and Ghostfist should not be so worried.

A lot of the discussion in this thread, and many other MFT threads, is about superb accuracy. The MFT3 will deliver good accuracy and certainly enough for the mobile fitter. On the odd occasion when supreme accuracy is required then I do a final check with a square just before the cut. The use of either Rail Dogs or Parf Dogs may help a bit but at the end of the day it is about good workshop (or on site) practices - knowing the limitations and mitigating them when required.

I have been using my MFT3 a lot lately for jig work, mainly in support of Domino work, and it just cannot be beaten. I can do offset face-frame Domino joints in next to no time thanks to the versatile clamping support concept of the MFT3. Check out this link:



Sawing is important but it is only one part of the MFT story.

Peter

 

[fastbike]

You're not understanding the advice. Put some dogs behind the fence, butt the fence to the dogs, tighten the head. Leave the dogs in place. No flex.

Tim, that isn't the problem. Like I said, I can set the MFT/3 up to be as good as perfectly square. The problem I'm trying to describe is that when you butt up a thin piece of wood to the fence, It can flex out of alignment by about 2mm at the point of cut. So that's 2mm over the distance of about 20cm of fence...

 

[jonathan-m]

That's good advice, but first of all, I shouldn't have to and second you loose cross cutting capacity that way.

 

[GhostFist]

The MFT design as far as a grid of dog holes in some 3/4 material is a fantastic simple concept. The idea of a fence, miter gauge , and cross cutting attachments are also good. I don't have the need for machinist like tolerances for woodworking but I have to look at what I need in particular from a portable work table. I feel I can build something much more tailored to my needs than what the MFT/3 has to offer and as a result be much happier. I've already cobbled together a rough Mark 1 prototype that I'm currently using, and am working out tweaks for my final design. Perhaps the MFT/3 is the perfect solution for some but I repeatedly see tweaks and enhancements to the design on this forum that has led me to the decision to build my own. Perhaps I've been reading too much lately, see "Anarchist's Tool Chest" by Chris Schwartz,  I've been inspired by such user made innovations like the MFT/B, and the various jigs and enhancements presented on this forum and am beginning to more firmly believe that more jigs and certain tools should be made by the carpenter him/herself as opposed to purchasing the lowest common denominator manufactured elsewhere.

 

[Guilliaume woodworks]

All tools that involve precise accuracy have to be fine tuned from time to time. I haven't owned a tool that has stayed true indefinitely . Some are more temperamental than others but we learn which ones need extra attention . Not saying mft is the absolute answer . We as woodworkers have a drive (or a curse) to be better,be square,to be plumb & level, and to be straight. This quest of perfection can be frustrating at times , but more so can be incredibly rewarding.

 

[tiralie]

[thumbs up]

All tools that involve precise accuracy have to be fine tuned from time to time. I haven't owned a tool that has stayed true indefinitely . Some are more temperamental than others but we learn which ones need extra attention . Not saying mft is the absolute answer . We as woodworkers have a drive (or a curse) to be better,be square,to be plumb & level, and to be straight. This quest of perfection can be frustrating at times , but more so can be incredibly rewarding.

Agreed. If I consider my time, it's also almost always cheaper for me to buy than build.
Tim

 

[peter halle]

My takes on this thread are:

1.  No one tool will be the "one tool" for every person who works with wood.  Everyone has a different procedure and accuracy requirements / constraints.

2.  The search for a perfect tool is akin to the search for the "Holy Grail" or the "Fountain of Youth" or a winning lottery ticket.

Peter

 

[tiralie]

...second you loose cross cutting capacity that way.

How so?

 

[jonathan-m]

Unless I understand it wrong, your solution is the like the first picture?
Which means I loose about 8cm of cross cut capacity of my preferred setup, the second picture.
Unfortunately I often make >65cm cross cuts

 

[tiralie]

Yes you are correct, on both counts.
Turn the table around 1/4 turn and put the miter gauge on the short side rather than the long side of the table.
Tim

 

[Guilliaume woodworks]

Yes you are correct, on both counts.
Turn the table around 1/4 turn and put the miter gauge on the short side rather than the long side of the table.
Tim

tim your a genius! I never thought of that...so simple

 

[peter halle]

I you will need to switch to a longer rail.  the one that comes with the TS-55 is longh enough.  If you switch often enough you might want to invest in 2 move feather keys to install in the profiles as stops.

Peter