new mft/3 anybody use t track mounted miter gauge?
- Thread starter NEW2FES
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That is interesting! I am going to try that.
Peter
Peter
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There are many possible answers and I'm surprised more members haven't made their own fences. I can help you with any specialized dogs you may need and I try to keep the cost reasonable. However, there are cheaper alternatives out there.
First, if you have the larger 80/20 stuff (15 or 40 series) you can press it against 2 dogs and use a screw clamp from under the MFT to secure it. Another screw clamp becomes a stop.
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If you have the smaller 80/20 stuff (10 or 25 series) you can do the same but clamp it from the top of the extrusion.
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If you have a T-track (Incra T-track Plus is excellent for this one) you can use 2 screw clamps from underneath and no dogs are needed. Simply slide the T-track groove onto the screw clamps, slide everything forward and align with a square if needed and tighten. You can use normal T-track stops if you use the Incra T-track Plus.
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Another simple answer (sorry no time to make it and take a picture) is to take any straight board and use a drill press to drill 2 holes 96 mm (or multiples of 96 mm) apart. The holes need to be 13/16" or bigger. The holes need to be an equal distance from the straight side (what will become the fence side) of the board. Slip the board on top of 2 Qwas dogs and and you have a quick fence. A clamp or screw can be used for a stop.
First, if you have the larger 80/20 stuff (15 or 40 series) you can press it against 2 dogs and use a screw clamp from under the MFT to secure it. Another screw clamp becomes a stop.
[attachthumb=1]
If you have the smaller 80/20 stuff (10 or 25 series) you can do the same but clamp it from the top of the extrusion.
[attachthumb=2]
If you have a T-track (Incra T-track Plus is excellent for this one) you can use 2 screw clamps from underneath and no dogs are needed. Simply slide the T-track groove onto the screw clamps, slide everything forward and align with a square if needed and tighten. You can use normal T-track stops if you use the Incra T-track Plus.
[attachthumb=3]
Another simple answer (sorry no time to make it and take a picture) is to take any straight board and use a drill press to drill 2 holes 96 mm (or multiples of 96 mm) apart. The holes need to be 13/16" or bigger. The holes need to be an equal distance from the straight side (what will become the fence side) of the board. Slip the board on top of 2 Qwas dogs and and you have a quick fence. A clamp or screw can be used for a stop.
Makkus. Never thought of switching the two clamps around.....I was trying to achieve the extra crosscutting capacity as well. I found that when I tightened the black clamp it pulled the fence back a bit. I tried adjusting the black clamp using the different holes, but it still didn't want to fit into the fence properly. The only way I could get it to stay square was to put 2 screw clamps on the fence as well.
I have not gone and tried this yet, but since the extrusion is a constant, and the table is as well, what is it you found made this an improvement?
For now, I have been using the method a lot of people do, 2 qwas dogs in the first row of holes, and the fence butted up to it and clamped to avoid movement on the fence.
The only reason I even bother with the fence is for the flagstop when I need it.
I am with others here as well, I find the protractor less than reliable, and am ready to remove it all together once I find a reliable method to hold the fence down. I like the idea of adding another black fence clamp to replace the protractor clamp, but like I said earlier the clamps on the back extrusion seem to pull the fence back a little when you clamp them down. I like to use qwas dogs to install my fence (same way you do as shown in your pics) as it's quick and easy but since the black clamps pull the fence back this method is not always reliable......
Has anyone else tried using 2 black clamps and removing the protractor? I know Paul Marcel show's this in his mods but he is using a 1080 which uses a different clamping system.
I have not gone and tried this yet, but since the extrusion is a constant, and the table is as well, what is it you found made this an improvement?
For now, I have been using the method a lot of people do, 2 qwas dogs in the first row of holes, and the fence butted up to it and clamped to avoid movement on the fence.
The only reason I even bother with the fence is for the flagstop when I need it.
I am with others here as well, I find the protractor less than reliable, and am ready to remove it all together once I find a reliable method to hold the fence down. I like the idea of adding another black fence clamp to replace the protractor clamp, but like I said earlier the clamps on the back extrusion seem to pull the fence back a little when you clamp them down. I like to use qwas dogs to install my fence (same way you do as shown in your pics) as it's quick and easy but since the black clamps pull the fence back this method is not always reliable......
Has anyone else tried using 2 black clamps and removing the protractor? I know Paul Marcel show's this in his mods but he is using a 1080 which uses a different clamping system.
jonathan-m
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gnlman said:
I have, it does not work. the pressure on the back of the fence profile makes it flip over backwards.
@gnlman
I came up with the idea, since I bumped several times into the overhanging fence and my MFT would be no more square. I thought, the gauge might be more "stable". Also I wanted the extra 2 inches more cross cut capacity. I tried then if the fence clamp would some how match with my bench dogs, and they did. The head of my dogs is 22mm (made them myself). But I believe you could first clamp the fence and then adjust the miter gauge with a big square.
-Mark
I came up with the idea, since I bumped several times into the overhanging fence and my MFT would be no more square. I thought, the gauge might be more "stable". Also I wanted the extra 2 inches more cross cut capacity. I tried then if the fence clamp would some how match with my bench dogs, and they did. The head of my dogs is 22mm (made them myself). But I believe you could first clamp the fence and then adjust the miter gauge with a big square.
-Mark
ART at WORK
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Makkus said:
Hi,
I love the Idea, so simple. I will try this out as I have often banged in to the back section of the sliding part on the protractor.
I have draws on both sides of my MFT systaine container and the saw and the DC live judt under this bar. So I have stood up on to this protrusion a couple of times. On the corner it will out of the way for me and protected by the boom arm upright.
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Thanks again for posting.
Pip
You don't have to give up dogs or clamps to use the T-TRack plus or 8020 extrusions. There was a post about table extensions that used 3/4" aluminum spacers w/ the usual track bolts (or 5/16 hex) to fit in the bottom groove of the extrusion and be tightened w/ a knob. Same would work for T-Track except a typical (for the US) 1/4-20 bolt would also work. Can still be squared to the guide rail w/ dogs and a good square.
Good thread and I have to admit until I saw Paul Marcel's video on his modifications I would fall into the same unhappy camp as several people here.
Since then I focus on the beauty of the CNC hole accuracy and locate everything based on that.
However when I purchase Festool I immediately expect the perfection I found when I bought my first tracksaw and it was just not there with the angle fence on the MFT.
I would love to see an Incra Engineer have about 24 hours with the miter fence on the MFT. Then we would have something to marvel over.
In the end the MFT does work and work well. I just think you have to adjust your way of thinking and use its strengths and avoid its weaknesses.
Since then I focus on the beauty of the CNC hole accuracy and locate everything based on that.
However when I purchase Festool I immediately expect the perfection I found when I bought my first tracksaw and it was just not there with the angle fence on the MFT.
I would love to see an Incra Engineer have about 24 hours with the miter fence on the MFT. Then we would have something to marvel over.
In the end the MFT does work and work well. I just think you have to adjust your way of thinking and use its strengths and avoid its weaknesses.
rrmccabe said:
I agree with the quote above.
As others have done, i use a couple of dogs behind my fence. Once i had the fence secured against the two dogs, i adjusted the mitre guage to 0º and useing the black lock at the far end, everything lined up perfect. I leave the dogs in place. Using a large speed square, I am making picture frames that come out perfectly with mitered corners. I can not do them using my SCMS (not a Kapex).
To say nothing should need to be done to get the MFT to work perfectly is like buying a pair of boots to wear in snow. the add says they are waterproof. If I don't "fix' them, my feet are going to get wet. In a snow storm, one's feet can freeze with such an attitude. I oil up my boots before every winter season. My guide rail and miter on the MFT get checked nearly every time I use them. With barely enough space to slide past as I move around my shop, the end of my rail and the overhang of the miter gets bumped many times. I am experimenting with better ways. When i had a table saw, i never bumped the fence, but i had no space for ripping or crosscutting. I'll take the green cool aide and some of the problems that come with it any day.
Tinker
markorjack
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I am happy with my MFT 3 but agree that it is far from perfect.
The fence is a piece of junk.
Sure, you can use dogs and other methods to get it square, but part of the selling point is it's accuracy in cutting angles via easy set up where you move the saw, not the stock.
Sorry, but to me, that is plainly false advertising.
If you set it up square using dogs then all will be good, if all you want is square cuts.
The black clamp is a piece of junk also as it moves the fence when tightened.
I just went and tried mine again and I can't even get it to lock the end of the fence, even if I crank it very tight I can still move the fence right where the clamp is.
It is useless for angles due to flex.
Another issue for me are the Festool Fixed Clamps.
Many here say the screw in knobs are not essential and they never use them.
This intrigues me because whenever I use the clamps without knobs the piece raises slightly off the table.
Then there is the slop stop, a great idea and I have bought one, but really, shouldn't that have been addressed at the factory?
It can be slightly disappointing that there is never any negative feedback which makes it difficult for a company to improve.
ie the Kapex dust extraction, sure it's good, and way better than anything else, but it is not until you buy one, realise that it isn't as good as you have read, then dig deeper and find that people say they are happy with 90% collection that you realise where you went wrong
All that being said, despite the MFT fence being crap, and the fixed clamps not working as well as the internet makes them out to be, and the need for a slop stop, the MFT is a brilliant piece of kit in so many other ways that I am still happy with it.
The same can be said for the Kapex, the dust collection is nowhere near what I expected, but it is unequalled in so many other ways that I am still happy.
The fence is a piece of junk.
Sure, you can use dogs and other methods to get it square, but part of the selling point is it's accuracy in cutting angles via easy set up where you move the saw, not the stock.
Sorry, but to me, that is plainly false advertising.
If you set it up square using dogs then all will be good, if all you want is square cuts.
The black clamp is a piece of junk also as it moves the fence when tightened.
I just went and tried mine again and I can't even get it to lock the end of the fence, even if I crank it very tight I can still move the fence right where the clamp is.
It is useless for angles due to flex.
Another issue for me are the Festool Fixed Clamps.
Many here say the screw in knobs are not essential and they never use them.
This intrigues me because whenever I use the clamps without knobs the piece raises slightly off the table.
Then there is the slop stop, a great idea and I have bought one, but really, shouldn't that have been addressed at the factory?
It can be slightly disappointing that there is never any negative feedback which makes it difficult for a company to improve.
ie the Kapex dust extraction, sure it's good, and way better than anything else, but it is not until you buy one, realise that it isn't as good as you have read, then dig deeper and find that people say they are happy with 90% collection that you realise where you went wrong
All that being said, despite the MFT fence being crap, and the fixed clamps not working as well as the internet makes them out to be, and the need for a slop stop, the MFT is a brilliant piece of kit in so many other ways that I am still happy with it.
The same can be said for the Kapex, the dust collection is nowhere near what I expected, but it is unequalled in so many other ways that I am still happy.
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Regarding the clamping elements (I believe that you were calling them fixed clamps) they were designed to be used with the knobs. It has been mentioned here before, if you are using them and getting lift when not using the knobs, you can adjust the pressure. That might help out. I believe that these are the screw locations (mine are in the shop).
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Peter
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Peter
markorjack
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Thanks Peter, I'll look into it.
I call them "fixed clamps" because that is what Festool call them, I'm not sure where "clamping elements" comes from, maybe it's a US thing?
I call them "fixed clamps" because that is what Festool call them, I'm not sure where "clamping elements" comes from, maybe it's a US thing?
fastbike said:
Are you sure the thin piece of wood is not slipping?
If the wood is thinner than the fence, the rail cannot sit tightly against the wood and the wood is going to move no matter how careful you are.
I do a lot of cutting of thin pieces of wood. I put "sleepers" between the table top and and the wood I am cutting.
That way, the bottom of the rail is higher than the top of the fence and the wood stays firmly held by the rail and does not move.
Even so, the thin piece of wood might still slip. For such problem, i determine how to use clamps, either to the wood or the rail.
I check my rail for square alignment to the fence every time before I use it for the day ahead. I always did the same with my miter on the table saw.
Any part that is adjustable to another adjustable part can be jolted out of square from a slight bump to either of the adjustable parts.
Tinker
markorjack
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Tinker, I don't think that is the issue.
The point is that with no wood on the NFT3 at all, if you slightly push on the fence where it is closest to the rail, even then it will deflect.
It's not set up or user, it simply is a poor fence.
As an example I was tinkering with mine a little tonight after reading some of the suggestions in this thread.
Even with the fence not attached, I pushed down slightly on the back of the protractor, the whole aluminium extrusion on the back of the MFT flexes.
The point is that with no wood on the NFT3 at all, if you slightly push on the fence where it is closest to the rail, even then it will deflect.
It's not set up or user, it simply is a poor fence.
As an example I was tinkering with mine a little tonight after reading some of the suggestions in this thread.
Even with the fence not attached, I pushed down slightly on the back of the protractor, the whole aluminium extrusion on the back of the MFT flexes.
markorjack said:
Why would you ever want to do that? Makes no sense to me. I mean if you want to prove something has flaws I suppose thats a way to do it, it I have never run into any reason I would have that happen in my work flows. So, at the risk of being blunt, who really cares?
Honestly, I find the fence pretty rigid on the MFT overall. But maybe you are making something that requires more precision than me. My biggest complaint of the fence system isn't the rigidity of the fence, it's the set up of it and the fact it hogs some of the table top space. And the fact some folks think it can replace a table saw, fact is it can't.
If anything deflects on the MFT it's the legs not the fence, it's almost a requirement of the MFT to have the extra leg supports. My fence is easy as pie to set ( i use dogs) and hold square ( I am not mobile).
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