New TSC 55 K saw and TPC 18 drill

[_Ben_]

Hmm, my subscription does have some limitations but the earliest related standard I can see is EN 50144-2-5 (1996) "Particular requirements for circular saws and circular knives". At face value, the 1996 document doesn't look that much different from the 2014 one.

EN 50144-2-5 (1996) seems to have superseded IID 400.2E S2:1988 which I guess must be in the era of the original DIN?! Probably have a few copies kicking around in the Wendlingen museum .

Do you by chance have access to outdated versions as well? Would be interesting to know what the original DIN said before it was harmonized and became an EN.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Thanks for looking into it Ben!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[JEKL]

TPC 18 - Angle attachment... ;-) 

 

[ForumMFG]

Does anyone know if the new drills will be released in the USA this april? Or is it just in europe?

 

[squall_line]

Does anyone know if the new drills will be released in the USA this april? Or is it just in europe?

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/festool-tdctpc-availability/

 

[CumminsDiesel]

What material is the collar on the drill,where side-mounted handle is attached, plastic or aluminum?
On the Festool PDC, it is a solid piece of aluminum.
-------------------------------

 

[GavsterUK]

What material is the collar on the drill,where side-mounted handle is attached, plastic or aluminum?
On the Festool PDC, it is a solid piece of aluminum.
-------------------------------

Just checked and its plastic. Very solid feeling but definitely plastic. Hope that helps.

 

[Michael Kellough]

What material is the collar on the drill,where side-mounted handle is attached, plastic or aluminum?
On the Festool PDC, it is a solid piece of aluminum.
-------------------------------

Just checked and its plastic. Very solid feeling but definitely plastic. Hope that helps.

How about the new black right angle chuck? Used to be cast metal.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

What material is the collar on the drill,where side-mounted handle is attached, plastic or aluminum?
On the Festool PDC, it is a solid piece of aluminum.
-------------------------------

Just checked and its plastic. Very solid feeling but definitely plastic. Hope that helps.

Not good,not good...

 

[GavsterUK]

What material is the collar on the drill,where side-mounted handle is attached, plastic or aluminum?
On the Festool PDC, it is a solid piece of aluminum.
-------------------------------

Just checked and its plastic. Very solid feeling but definitely plastic. Hope that helps.

How about the new black right angle chuck? Used to be cast metal.

I haven't actually got one to hand BUT from close inspection i think its similar plastic to the existing Eccentric chuck.

 

[mino]

I haven't actually got one to hand BUT from close inspection i think its similar plastic to the existing Eccentric chuck.

If it means the new angle chuck is lighter -at-same-strength- it would be a plus as the current one is quite heavy.

I guess the same is with the collar - a few grams were saved which were used for the beefier motor and gearbox, keeping overall weight the same. The collar is now a separate part => easier to replace if damaged. Seems an improvement to the earlier model to me.

Oh why, why cannot Festool produce a detailed video noting all the differences and improvements and reasoning for them ... they would create marketing capital that way instead of losing it with all these "investigations" what is how and guesses why.

I guess one can dream.  [smile]

EDIT: mis-post

 

[Spandex]

Not good,not good...

Are you asking about the 43mm collar section? If so, what were you planning on mounting the drill into that required that part to be metal?

 

[CumminsDiesel]

Not good,not good...

Are you asking about the 43mm collar section? If so, what were you planning on mounting the drill into that required that part to be metal?

It doesn't matter where or on what I plan or do not plan to use the collar, to replace it with plastic for me is a downgrade.
The PDC has a solid piece of aluminum.
It looks like the shaft (to which the Centrotec is attached) now has a plastic support collar.  [sad]

 

[GavsterUK]

I haven't actually got one to hand BUT from close inspection i think its similar plastic to the existing Eccentric chuck.

If it means the new angle chuck is lighter -at-same-strength- it would be a plus as the current one is quite heavy.

I guess the same is with the collar - a few grams were saved which were used for the beefier motor and gearbox, keeping overall weight the same. The collar is now a separate part => easier to replace if damaged. Seems an improvement to the earlier model to me.

Oh why, why cannot Festool produce a detailed video noting all the differences and improvements and reasoning for them ... they would create marketing capital that way instead of losing it with all these "investigations" what is how and guesses why.

I guess one can dream.  [smile]

EDIT: mis-post

maybe i should do a side by side video? :

 

[AlexThePalex]

Wow, plastic there, that's indeed a downgrade. That's not just the body there, that's the business end of the drill and you want that to be strong and durable. I also makes the drill look like crap.

I find it a quite troublesome development lately with Festool, with every new generation of tools they make there are some changes that are always cheeper and weaker and less appealing. And just to save a few cents on a $600 tool. There used to be a reason why people were willing to spend the $600 on the Festool instead of $250 on a Makita or a Metabo. 

 

[bertv]

The right kind of plastic can be stronger than metal, so I don’t see why not… OTH it would help if FS explained why certain changes and adaptations were made.

 

[Spandex]

It doesn't matter where or on what I plan or do not plan to use the collar, to replace it with plastic for me is a downgrade.
The PDC has a solid piece of aluminum.
It looks like the shaft (to which the Centrotec is attached) now has a plastic support collar.  [sad]

It does matter, because plastic is not automatically worse than aluminium. It very much depends on the intended use.

For example, were you to drop the drill I would expect a reinforced, flexible plastic to fare much better than an aluminium part. But there are obviously situations where the hardness and precision of metal would be more desirable, hence my question.

To take this to a slightly ridiculous example, if the PDC had an aluminium grip and this was changed to rubber on the TPC, this would be an upgrade, not a downgrade. Whist this is a bit silly, it illustrates the point that the material should suit the parts purpose, and metal is not automatically better than plastic.

The internals of the collar appear to be metal, so protecting them with a softer plastic casing may prolong their life, not shorten it.

 

[mino]

...
I find it a quite troublesome development lately with Festool, with every new generation of tools they make there are some changes that are always cheeper and weaker and less appealing.
...

You are extrapolating way too much that using a multi-part plastic composite and metal assembly is cheaper than a single-piece casting like was used before. I would expect the cost balance to be otherwise actually. Assuming such a hypothetical casting needed would even be manufacturable assemble-able.

It is most likely the multi-part approach (more expensive than single-part) was dictated by manufacturability and one the parts had to be separate, it was an obvious choice to save weight on the part where plastic composite strength is adequate for the purpose.

This is the same why the motor housings are today plastic, even though they were cast metal half a century ago. The moment strong plastics became available, every pro tool makes followed the cheapo folks and ditched castings wherever they were not required.

Not gonna argue with other stuff as there are point on both sides to be made so is in the eye of the beholder.

But composite plastics are the material of choice at every place where its strength is either adequate OR space is not at a premium. A bigger plastic piece is generally stronger at same weight than a metal piece so it is slam dunk most of the time.

...
The internals of the collar appear to be metal, so protecting them with a softer plastic casing may prolong their life, not shorten it.

Actually, if I remember right, the locking of the special chucks from the T/C series uses metal fixations points which then slide into plastic internal grooves in the casing and USE THE ELASTICITY of the casing to lock-in. It would actually be impossible to support the same connecting approach with a metallic part as it cannot be made elastic enough for that.

I would even venture to guess that limiting cost (not saving, when you design a tool you are not "saving" anything) was why Festool originally produced the DRC/PDC as Protool-only tools, so they can ignore the compatibility concerns and get a more competitive price point.

 

[mino]

Lets stop this eternal metal = better, plastic = worse and related discussions.
It is getting old.

This was true 100 years ago when the only plastics available were weak thermoplastics or the fragile thermosets like bakelite. It is not valid for a couple decades by now as modern polymers and polymer-composites are completely different beasts.

Today, making an aircraft wing from plastic composites is an engineering achievement and a very expensive one at that. Still a worthy exercise as such a wing can be made stronger, lighter and more aerodynamic than a metal wing can. But it is anything but a cost savings game ...

As for the TPC/TDC, only time will tell if the choice was good (saving weight) or not so good (if it breaks often when abused).

 

[FestitaMakool]

Don’t forget the improvements:
- New attachments can be rotated w/o removing and reattaching.
- The new drill will now accept OLD attachments.
- Speed selector is vastly improved over the last gen. - According to Festool.

The plastic collar is probably only a “panel cover” over cast internals.
The only gripe might be the ones who intend to use the collar for fastening the drill in jigs and such.
For holding the handle it is probably more that good enough.

I think the design on the new model is a bit meh.. put aside it’s probably very good.

So, who has pre-ordered one of the new Flex drills? [wink] A pretty high hype about power, but little finesse I suspect.