New Zero Clearance Fence for Kapex (The Cube)
- Thread starter Colliflower
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dlu said:
Hello.
Yes, the retaining grooves can be cut on any saw. The slot just needs to be about 1/8" wide.
Sliding upper wings of the fence? Not sure if I know what you mean. The fence should be just about exactly where the OEM fence is. And they butt up to the cube. They can be slid out just the same as with the stock base.
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Hello.Vondawg said:
Yes, that's correct. It's not just for bevel cuts--it's for all cuts!
There are clearances for all bevels/miters.
Was using mine just this morn....
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Chris Perren said:
Very nice, Chris! Thanks for sharing. Glad you like it. Yeah, I think I'm going to be cutting my cube height too. There is clearance at 3.5" for the sliding action--but not much. I'll probably cut mine down to 3".
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ben_r_ said:
Hi, Ben.
Thanks! Yes, I remember our communications. So glad to hear you're liking the other ZCIs. On another note regarding our communications previously, I hope cutting that 45-degree has become easier on the SS ZCI. I won't post on here how I do it, because it's a bit dangerous and don't want to be the one to "give instructions" on it. But it works great for me!
Yes, the 12" Bosch Glide is the next saw I plan on making the Cube for. And then probably the 12" DW780/782. Should be just a matter of time.
Colliflower said:
Link to video? I can't see how the cube can not affect DE but I am going to put one on my Bosch Glide this week and will have a play with what can be done with shape to minimise the problems it must introduce. I think the cube is an awesome idea if the DE problems can be overcome or at least minimised.
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Mini Me said:
Hello, Mini Me
The link for the video is in this forum/topic on pg. 1. Just go to Pg. 1 and scroll down toward the bottom.
And yes, the dust collection has been quite decent for me. As Chris mentioned in an earlier post, I too cut the height down a bit and it increased the collection even more. Per my use/experience, dust collection is still really good with the Cube.
Maybe this needs a change in work practices and my short range thinking. Your video does not show cutting timber/MDF etc over the full sliding range of the saw just a simple drop saw motion. I suppose for cutting something full width in sliding mode the cube is not necessary or a much lower version if indexing the zero kerf cut against a mark is needed. I will knock one up shortly and see how it goes as I think it is a brilliant idea but not at the expense of breathing dust laden air, nothing is worth that.
I expect the Cube to affect dust extraction. However, no miter saws -- with or without the Cube -- are fool-proof in dust collection. No matter what fence or dust extractor is used with the Kapex, wearing a N95 mask is the only reliable dust protection when operating the saw.
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Mini Me said:
Yes, I agree. Please post your results. As you mentioned, cutting the full width would not be affected by the Cube since the dust collection is right behind the blade, and when it's in front of the Cube, shouldn't be a difference. However, once the dust shroud is above or behind the Cube, that's when the difference should occur. I look forward to seeing your results. As I noted previously, I haven't had a huge difference in DC between Cube and not. Yes, a difference, but not a big one. Thanks for liking this design, and it will be neat to see what you come up with and how you make it. This "fence" is really one of my favorite projects/designs that I've had for quite some time.
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Quite true, Chuck. And N95 masks are hard to come by these days!ChuckM said:
Colliflower said:
I must not have been clear, I think the cube will affect the dust collection hugely especially on saws that do not have the in shroud extraction of the Kapex. Most saws rely on the dust being ejected by the blade into a crude collection gizmo at the rear and underneath the blade shroud. Certainly that is the method that Bosch have used. For this to work in any fashion at all it relies on a clear path through the fence opening back to the debris collection point.
I would be interested in dust sampling measurements with and without the cube to see the difference. Mitre saws can be very indiscriminate on dust debris ejection and it requires very powerful dust extraction along with good shrouding to overcome the problem. keep in mind that the debris you can see are not the problem t is the sub micron dust you can't see that has the health effect. As good as it is the Festool answer to dust extraction on the Kapex is primarily aimed at the visible debris issue and not the fine sub micron dust emissions. In every video I see with the Kapex if the light and camera angle is right fine dust can be seen being sprayed into the air. It has the best dust collection but the bar is set very very low.
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I must not have been clear, I think the cube will affect the dust collection hugely especially on saws that do not have the in shroud extraction of the Kapex. Most saws rely on the dust being ejected by the blade into a crude collection gizmo at the rear and underneath the blade shroud. Certainly that is the method that Bosch have used. For this to work in any fashion at all it relies on a clear path through the fence opening back to the debris collection point.
I would be interested in dust sampling measurements with and without the cube to see the difference. Mitre saws can be very indiscriminate on dust debris ejection and it requires very powerful dust extraction along with good shrouding to overcome the problem. keep in mind that the debris you can see are not the problem t is the sub micron dust you can't see that has the health effect. As good as it is the Festool answer to dust extraction on the Kapex is primarily aimed at the visible debris issue and not the fine sub micron dust emissions. In every video I see with the Kapex if the light and camera angle is right fine dust can be seen being sprayed into the air. It has the best dust collection but the bar is set very very low.
[/quote]
Hello, Mini. Yes, I understand. Were you able to test? I got the impression that you were going to mock up a comparable device and test. Maybe I misunderstood.
When giving my opinion about the DC, I wasn't thinking of other saws--only the Kapex. In regard to the "Shouldn't make much of a difference," my point was when the blade/saw was fully extended forward, in front of the fence, with the dust collector shroud in front of the fence too. I don't see how the Cube would make much of a difference with that part of the cut. Once the blade is pushed back toward the fence, once the shroud is above or behind the Cube, that is where the difference in DC will be made. However, as you mentioned, if the micro dust (which no miter saw is fantastic at collecting) is the issue, I would almost think that the Cube would be beneficial/better than no Cube, since it would help to keep the micro dust in a lower position as opposed to shoot it out the back, shooting upward, into a big plume. (If working outside, out the back would be better, but if in a shop, probably not).
I'm hoping that others post on here about the DC results of the Cube. As noted, my DC has still been great when compared to other saws. When the dust hits the Cube, it largely shoots up, into the shroud. More specifically, to a large degree, the dust shoots into the ZC channel, which is the upward shape of a blade and channels directly up to the shroud.
I will make the disclaimer that I'm not the dust collection king. I bought my Kapex because it's a fantastic tool, and I'm sure I have lots of room to improve. Before the testing of the Cube, I didn't even hook up my Kapex to a vacuum, because my cuts on it were few and the dust shot into an area easy to clean up.
Good conversation. I'd love to hear what others have to say about the DC with the Cube.
I would be interested in dust sampling measurements with and without the cube to see the difference. Mitre saws can be very indiscriminate on dust debris ejection and it requires very powerful dust extraction along with good shrouding to overcome the problem. keep in mind that the debris you can see are not the problem t is the sub micron dust you can't see that has the health effect. As good as it is the Festool answer to dust extraction on the Kapex is primarily aimed at the visible debris issue and not the fine sub micron dust emissions. In every video I see with the Kapex if the light and camera angle is right fine dust can be seen being sprayed into the air. It has the best dust collection but the bar is set very very low.
[/quote]
Hello, Mini. Yes, I understand. Were you able to test? I got the impression that you were going to mock up a comparable device and test. Maybe I misunderstood.
When giving my opinion about the DC, I wasn't thinking of other saws--only the Kapex. In regard to the "Shouldn't make much of a difference," my point was when the blade/saw was fully extended forward, in front of the fence, with the dust collector shroud in front of the fence too. I don't see how the Cube would make much of a difference with that part of the cut. Once the blade is pushed back toward the fence, once the shroud is above or behind the Cube, that is where the difference in DC will be made. However, as you mentioned, if the micro dust (which no miter saw is fantastic at collecting) is the issue, I would almost think that the Cube would be beneficial/better than no Cube, since it would help to keep the micro dust in a lower position as opposed to shoot it out the back, shooting upward, into a big plume. (If working outside, out the back would be better, but if in a shop, probably not).
I'm hoping that others post on here about the DC results of the Cube. As noted, my DC has still been great when compared to other saws. When the dust hits the Cube, it largely shoots up, into the shroud. More specifically, to a large degree, the dust shoots into the ZC channel, which is the upward shape of a blade and channels directly up to the shroud.
I will make the disclaimer that I'm not the dust collection king. I bought my Kapex because it's a fantastic tool, and I'm sure I have lots of room to improve. Before the testing of the Cube, I didn't even hook up my Kapex to a vacuum, because my cuts on it were few and the dust shot into an area easy to clean up.
Good conversation. I'd love to hear what others have to say about the DC with the Cube.
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Chris Perren said:
Thanks for letting us know, Chris. And it's very good to know that the mounting pattern is the same for the older models.
I would think that cutting the Cube to 2" (as you have done) would maximize dust collection and clearances. Please let me know if you ever need product support.
I lashed together a version of the cube for my Bosch Glide and I have to say I am surprised at how little it affects the dust extraction with one proviso. My dust extraction system is very powerful in fact it is a hot rodded Clearvue which runs way faster than a stock one so someone with a less capable extractor might get different results but I tend to think not. if they already have good dust control then it should be just as good or very close.
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Mini Me said:
Very neat to get a second opinion on this! Yes, I was quite surprised at how little it affected dust collection too. Thanks for making one and letting us know. The next saw to make a Cube for is the Bosch Glide. I'd be curious to see your version
My version is a lash up and could not be sold, it took about 30 minutes to make after working out how to do it. There are four holes along the back of the fence and it got bolted to that. I am involved in other things including dust extraction on a commercial basis and I don't know if I have enough time at the moment to develop it for the Glide as a product to sell but I think it would be far more simple that the Kapex.
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Mini Me said:
Hi, Mini.
Yeah, I was just thinking that what you came up with would be interesting to see.
It is my plan to develop the Cube for other saws, with the Bosch Glide being next. (I have this saw too and use it quite frequently--and it is very popular.)
Thanks for commenting and letting us know your results.
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