Newbie cost justification

[b_m_hart]

OK, ordered the two books on amazon.com - before reading the link about getting some referral cash to the site by using their link-thingy.  Doh!

Anyway, I'll read through them and then start figuring out where to come up with money for tools, haha.  I might be waiting a while (we've already dumped our renovation budget for the year)...

 

[Steveo48]

A router table can become a space issue, it's not an expensive item (hey, this is after the FOG Forum  ) and I have the space for two.  I actually have mine in cabinets that store my router bits, guides, fences, wrenches and the like.

Could be a good starter project for Hart, eh?

My two are hooked up to a central dust collector and a common switch turns the router and DC on at the same time.  For ME it's easier to adjust depth of cut while on the router table I can have companion bits set up in both and run one profile, then immediatly run the other.

But yea, they both do take up a lot of valuable floor space.

 

[Tom Ryan]

I would like to echo QWAS' recommendation of Tolpins book on traditional cabinetss, but would like to add a plug for Robert Lang's book -- a wonderfully clear and wize book.

Tom

 

[Qwas]

I have not seen Bob Lang's book. I see Woodcraft has it and I'm headed there this weekend. Looks like I got some reading to do.

Thanks Tom

 

[Steveo48]

Hart,

I just got off your concrete counter top page .  WOW  I am REALLY impressed.  You did an outstanding job, I have forwarded your link to several of the other shop teachers I work with here.

I'm confident you have the skills to and abilities to get your kitchen done and done right.  You'll make mistakes, heck we all do, but you'll learn quickly from them.  Try some starter projects and then GO FOR IT! 

How many man hours do you have in your first counter top?  Had you considered colored concrete, or marble chips as your aggregate?

 

[poto]

The trick is not that you won't make mistakes. As Steveo said, we all do - even the professional cabinet guy who built and installed my new kitchen cabinets. The trick is what you do with your mistakes: can you fix them in a creative way that either will never be noticed (at least by non professionals), or that actually enhance the product?

Have fun. It will be a great investment of time and money.

 

[b_m_hart]

Hart,

I just got off your concrete counter top page .    WOW  I am REALLY impressed.  You did an outstanding job, I have forwarded your link to several of the other shop teachers I work with here.

I'm confident you have the skills to and abilities to get your kitchen done and done right.  You'll make mistakes, heck we all do, but you'll learn quickly from them.  Try some starter projects and then GO FOR IT! 

How many man hours do you have in your first counter top?  Had you considered colored concrete, or marble chips as your aggregate?

Thanks for saying so.  After spending some time on this board, I am realizing all of the super sloppy things that I did along the way.

For example, to make the knockout for my sink void, I just randomly cut the corners with my junker jigsaw, and stacked up three pieces of MDF, and screwed them into place.   HIGHLY inaccurate!  Realizing now that I could have made a pretty much perfectly rounded template, and routed the pieces to match, then bought some 2" laminate (instead of clear packaging tape), it would have turned out substantially better.

As far as hours, I'd say I've spent probably 40 to 60 on the various pieces.  Now, I went and made my last mold the night before last in about 45 minutes, and mixed and poured last night (and cleaned up) in under an hour.  So, the first few pieces I really went slowly on.

So I bought my junker tools and table materials starting from scratch.  I had no power tools to speak of.  I bought materials to make the countertops, and some extras just in case (which turned out to be a very good idea).   In total, I spent 100-120 hours between all of my research, buying tools and materials, and actual "work".   If I had to do it again, I'd say I could do it in 12-20 hours now.

Also, I did go with color for my concrete, it's just very subtle.  I bought the pre-packaged formula from chengconcrete.com (stone color), and decided to go the easy route and use Quikrete 5000 and the aggregate in it.  I think for the next time I make something in concrete, I'll go with something that's more countertop-specific, and mix my aggregate and color / fibers by hand.

 

[Greg_R]

IMO your best bet for a 1st project is to purchase pre-built cabinets and install them yourself.  You will have to put on the doors, install drawers & hardware, do all the trim carpentry, install the countertop and sinks, etc., etc.  My Dad recently completed this project (he's was in the same boat as you are) and it took him a month of full days from start to finish (for a complete kitchen remodel including some wall demolition).  You can save a LOT of money by going this route but plan on spending a lot of time.  Note that I'm talking about quality pre-built cabinets... not Home Depot stuff.  Another option would be to buy the doors and make the carcasses.  Price out the materials first... you might find that your price on a sheet of plywood is more expensive then the entire assembled carcass from a local supplier.  Something that should not be overlooked is the finishing time (and space) for all the cabinets.  I just finished a fairly large project (14' wide bookcase with a corner) and the woodworking took about %20 of the time and the finishing took about 80% (should have bought a spray gun!).

Alternatively, you could build a couple of smaller projects to increase your skill level before tackling a full kitchen.  There are a lot of required skills (woodworking & carpentry) involved and it would suck to spend $10k on materials and end up with something that looks like garbage. 

 

[Les]

A router table can become a space issue, it's not an expensive item (hey, this is after the FOG Forum  ) and I have the space for two.  I actually have mine in cabinets that store my router bits, guides, fences, wrenches and the like.

Could be a good starter project for Hart, eh?

My two are hooked up to a central dust collector and a common switch turns the router and DC on at the same time.  For ME it's easier to adjust depth of cut while on the router table I can have companion bits set up in both and run one profile, then immediatly run the other.

But yea, they both do take up a lot of valuable floor space.

I totally agree about using the router table. As as space goes, make the height of the table compatible to other tools in the shops so it can be multi-functional. I take the fence off mine and use as an out-feed table for my table saw.  :

The advise you have received has been great. Don't think you're going to only be able to spend $2-3k on tools. Qwas quote of $5k is more accurate. All the little items soon add up to $k's.

 

[Dan Lyke]

A router table can become a space issue...

Mine hangs on the wall and clamps cantilevering off the edge of my MFT. I don't know what I'm going to do when I upgrade to the Porter-Cable 7815 and a lift, but for now that's a great way to save space.