North American TS60 doesn't have PlugIt??

[Crazyraceguy]

It's definitely a deal killer for me. Of all the Festool equipment that I have (not counting CTs) I have used exactly 3 cords. One is a non-plug-it on the RAS115, the others are connected to the CT26 on one end of the bench and the other on the CT15 that kind of roams around my area.
I learned early on, the hard way, about the low amp vs high amp differences. So, I keep the high amp ones out for use with everything and the others are all in a drawer with the manuals.
Since I might have 3 or 4 different tools out at once, switching the hose and cable is much better than all of those cords hanging around individually. Plus, it makes it a lot easier to put them away. In the Systainer they go, cable hanging with the CT.
I would swap my RAS in a hot second to get a Plug-it on there too and one of the reasons that I will probably never have an RO2200.

My battery platform of choice is Makita, so even a TSC60 would not sway me.
I have been hot on this saw since day one of hearing about it and never thought this would be a thing?
I'm not buying the reasoning so far. If Plug-it was a brand new concept, sure. It's not and has been proven for years. The UK saws have it, so making them without is an extra step, which seems slower, not faster. The only thing that would have to be different from the UK version is the cable itself and the literature inside the Systainer.

 

[Coen]

What? That is super weird. And I guess nobody ever got an official comment from Festool on this issue?

I'll throw out a spitball theory.  Perhaps some of the delay that we have always experienced here in North America with new tool introductions has had something to do in part with delays in getting the required approvals due to something with the plug-it connectors.

Personally I would rather see that tool here without the plug-it sooner versus waiting.  It has been quite some time since I actually am excited to see a new tool.  Maybe because it is a new tool and not an evolutionary refresh.

Just my  [2cents].

Peter

So much for land of the free  [unsure]

I must be the odd man out. I get a new tool, lock in the Plug-It cord, unless the cord needs to be removed to place the tool back into the Systainer the cord never gets removed.

Tom

I always remove the plug it cord. Makes it easier to place the tool in the box, easier to clean the tool, easier to clean the cord. Etc. Also with half the Systainers the cord ends up sitting in a weird bend when you let it stay on.

Needs more power, yet plugs it into the CT Vac. 

Hurrah for 230V. Currently pushing solar power back into the grid... 3700W through 2.5mm2

 

[woodferret]

I switched a bunch of tools to plug-it pigtails for conformity. After 3 months I switched them all back. I like individual cords and plug everything that Im using
into a powerstrip that is plugged in a Midi or CT26. The powerstrip is mounted to a plywood platform that locks onto a systainer parked on top of CT

I don't mind power cords if they had brought over the powerhub.

And then they also quietly discontinued the CT-VA20 power adapter.... now that they release the one commonly used tool (aside from OF2200) that needs to be unplugged at the source.  :/

This must be a OSHA (nested extension cords) thing.

Next up will be the removal of the power socket on the CT vac.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

This must be a OSHA (nested extension cords) thing.

Next up will be the removal of the power socket on the CT vac.

But why would that matter on one tool versus the others?

 

[woodferret]

But why would that matter on one tool versus the others?

I was being cheeky about the vacuum power port.  The OSHA letter concerning chained power extensions was 2015, so a PowerHub (2016?, suppose to be plugged into the wall with GFCI) plugged into a CT would invalidate the UL listing.  Because the way litigation works, I assume they are worried that if Sedge or any Festool marketing affiliates plugged that baby into the CT, it would open up legal liability if someone decides to be a dick about being dinged for an OSHA violation.

Tools, plugged directly into a CT is fine.  Tools, plugged into a CT plugged into a power strip not for GFCI purposes but for sharing is not fine.  Tools plugged into a relocated receptacle plugged into the CT, plugged into the wall would need UL for that CT-VA20-combo otherwise that little $40 addon falls into the extension cord rule if I'm reading this right.

 

[guybo]

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=72072]woodferret[/member] what I was meaning is why would any tool be acceptable under that scenario? They still sell the others with the Plug-it. How is a new one a problem?
As far as the multiple cord thing goes, that is not a manufacturer's problem. How the tool is used (or misused) later shouldn't be a consideration for them or the OSHA types.  Besides, who says the thing is going to be used in a situation where OSHA can even stick their nose into it?

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

As I stated in my earlier post,....The UK version of the TS 60 110v, is shown as having a Plug It cord, as is the 240v version...!!!
Here is a link to the Festool UK page on their website.
https://www.festool.co.uk/products/sawing/circular-saws/576725---ts-60-keb-plus-gb-110v

And I know for certain that the UK version of the TSV 60 240v, definitely has a Plug It connector with a heavy duty, anti-cut, geen power lead, coz I was given the opportunity to put the saw through its paces at the Festool HQ here in the UK 3 days ago.....

It would seem as though there is conflicting information out there at the moment.....

 

[Coen]

The pics on the UK website of the 110V show a normal 230V version complete with the 230V Schuko plug.

 

[Coen]

Seems the uk 110v will be hard wired also ,only 230v will have plug it. also the tsv they had at the recap was also hard wired.So question for those across the pond what is the difference between 230v socket and the 110v socket?

That first pic shows the TSV, not the TS

 

[woodferret]

[member=72072]woodferret[/member] what I was meaning is why would any tool be acceptable under that scenario? They still sell the others with the Plug-it. How is a new one a problem?

I think there have been two slightly overlapping discussions.  My response to morts10n was in regards to the DIY powerhub and why we're not likely going to ever see anything that can be construed as a plug relocator in the future NA, no matter how many new tools get released as needing easy plug access.

The other matter concerns plug-it cords.
A plug-it cord with a tool (say TS55) will have to go through UL testing with said cord.  The TS60 on the other hand is marketed at 12.5A.  I don't think UL will list that with a 13' high-strand 16AWG plug-it (nothing to do with the nesting issue, just the cable itself).  While it nominally works fine with the plug-it cord given it exists in the UK, UL seems to take the 1500W literally.  Marketing peak wattage speak bites them in the arse in this case.  Maybe one day they'll work it out what the true draw is and convince them to OK it.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=72072]woodferret[/member] what I was meaning is why would any tool be acceptable under that scenario? They still sell the others with the Plug-it. How is a new one a problem?

I think there have been two slightly overlapping discussions.  My response to morts10n was in regards to the DIY powerhub and why we're not likely going to ever see anything that can be construed as a plug relocator in the future NA, no matter how many new tools get released as needing easy plug access.

The other matter concerns plug-it cords.
A plug-it cord with a tool (say TS55) will have to go through UL testing with said cord.  The TS60 on the other hand is marketed at 12.5A.  I don't think UL will list that with a 13' high-strand 16AWG plug-it (nothing to do with the nesting issue, just the cable itself).  While it nominally works fine with the plug-it cord given it exists in the UK, UL seems to take the 1500W literally.  Marketing peak wattage speak bites them in the arse in this case.  Maybe one day they'll work it out what the true draw is and convince them to OK it.

But isn't the TS75 greater? 1600w is 13.3 amps and it has Plug-it.
That's what I do get. How can this be a problem?

Seems that the real issue would be plugging it into the CT? The catalog says the CT26 alone can draw 305-1200w. That's pushing a 20a breaker pretty hard. (potentially at least)

 

[woodferret]

That's a good point about the TS75.  My guess is they managed to make the case it sustains a much lower draw.  The TS60 being a BL motor was probably not convincing - kinda like how induction motors have such a different profile under load. 

The plugged into CT thing made me chuckle on the live stream "needs higher more power" he says.  The fact it didn't blow the fuse told me 'no'.  Maybe if you had a blade pinch?

 

[Coen]

[member=72072]woodferret[/member] what I was meaning is why would any tool be acceptable under that scenario? They still sell the others with the Plug-it. How is a new one a problem?

I think there have been two slightly overlapping discussions.  My response to morts10n was in regards to the DIY powerhub and why we're not likely going to ever see anything that can be construed as a plug relocator in the future NA, no matter how many new tools get released as needing easy plug access.

The other matter concerns plug-it cords.
A plug-it cord with a tool (say TS55) will have to go through UL testing with said cord.  The TS60 on the other hand is marketed at 12.5A.  I don't think UL will list that with a 13' high-strand 16AWG plug-it (nothing to do with the nesting issue, just the cable itself).  While it nominally works fine with the plug-it cord given it exists in the UK, UL seems to take the 1500W literally.  Marketing peak wattage speak bites them in the arse in this case.  Maybe one day they'll work it out what the true draw is and convince them to OK it.

1500 W at 110V is 13.5A. Why would they see that as a problem with 1.5mm^2?

 

[Cheese]

A few weird things stand out, the TS 75 @ 1600 watts and the TSV 60 @ 1650 watts both come with Plug it cords. So what's up with only 1500 watts with no Plug it?

And then this from the owners manual.
This is from the new TS 60 KEBQ (230V) & TS 60 KEB (110V) manual.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

And this information falls in line with the Festool UK website. If you view the TS 60 KEB (110V) and you view the Plug it cord options, the only cords that come up are for the 230 volt versions used on the TS 60 KEBQ saw.

 

[squall_line]

I am not a UL expert or electrical engineer, but it seems to me that it is quite possible that the UL requirements have changed since the TS 75 was rated/listed.  The IFC (International Fire Code) has certainly changed a number of times since then.

 

[jeh]

If you are getting something approved, the type of power cord connection would not slow down the process. The requirements for power tool certification are well-known to design engineers so they must of known it was a no-go from the start for power or some other issue. There is no other reason they would go non-plug-it with the vast majority of their tools have it. Not sure if the form for the case is different between the UK and US, but even if it is not at a minimum it is a different assembly process, extra parts to make and stock, and repair work. Cutting a cord on a plug-it requires the user buy a new cord and move on, whereas a non-plug-it tool requires at a minimum a new power cord + downtime waiting for the part to install or dropping the tool off for official repair by Festool. Both of these are frustrating for the customer. I switched to the Mafell MT55 and have never even given the lack of plug-it any thought other than the first time I plugged it in. What I did notice is the plug-it cables are inferior to the cables Mafell uses which are super-flexible. Now if Festool uses the same quality cord as Mafell then that is a huge plus.

 

[Coen]

I am not a UL expert or electrical engineer, but it seems to me that it is quite possible that the UL requirements have changed since the TS 75 was rated/listed.  The IFC (International Fire Code) has certainly changed a number of times since then.

And then magically got reversed in between TS60 and TSV60?

In the accessoires section on the TS60 110V UK website is a 110V Plug it Cord. You can recognize it by the big yellow plug.

 

[Coen]

What I did notice is the plug-it cables are inferior to the cables Mafell uses which are super-flexible. Now if Festool uses the same quality cord as Mafell then that is a huge plus.

More flexible increases cost. But what cords are you comparing? The heavier Plug It cord? With the PU outer layer? What cross section does Mafell use?

 

[woodferret]

1500 W at 110V is 13.5A. Why would they see that as a problem with 1.5mm^2?

https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/reference-circuit-ampacity.asp

16awg, #current conductors vs ampacity 2(13A), 3(10A) per UL guidance.  One can have higher peak amps than above, but you'd have to convince them your continuous is under the above.  Otherwise the cord will violate its temperature rating and deteriorate the insulation.