OF 1400 EQ Vs OF 2200 EB

[Shglover]

FOG,
  I am new to the group and relatively new in the Festool journey but becoming an addict.....
I thought I would reach out and get some insight / opinions on a router set up. I am looking to pick up the OF 1400 or the OF 2200 and couple it with the CMS-GE Set.
    I currently have a cordless trim router but am looking to get something larger and more versatile.  From what I have read the 2200 is capable of just about anything you throw at it, amazing dust collection but rather large. 
    My use would be with stock most likely not larger than 6/4, at least at this point.  I would like to get into using the lock miter bits, running my own profile on casing and base for projects, cabinets and storage for my home.  While I will be using it as a plunge router at times, Im thinking it will have more time on the table. I am a contractor so it will be spending some time on job sites as well.
    My initial concern was the power of the 1400, should it be? I am by no means a cabinet builder and so it will not see the abuse of daily wear and tear.
  Appreciate all the options and input.

SG

 

[Birdhunter]

The 2200 is a beast, but a beautiful beast. It’s heavy and large. Its engineering is amazing. The 1400 is very capable and very powerful. I don’t sling huge bits with it, but otherwise it can do almost all routing jobs. There are times when the 1400 will require 2 passes when the 2200 needs one.

I have all the Festool routers (excessive yes)and the 1400 is the most used.

I don’t own the CMS so can’t comment. It does seem a shame to hide a Festool router under a table. I use a Porter Cable motor under a cobbled up table. My shop is stationary.

 

[DynaGlide]

If it's going to live in the table I think I would almost suggest the 1400. I have both routers and the CMS GE. The 2200 is so well engineered that I'm going to take it out and start using it free hand and leave the 1400 in the table. It's good to have options  [big grin] .

I think the majority of tasks either router is fine in the table. Only bit I can think of would be panel raising that might require the 2200 and not because of the power but I believe the ring you install in the CMS when installing the router is bigger for the 2200 than the 1400.

 

[shed9]

I already had the 1010 and the 1400 and recently (last few weeks) bought a 2200 as I got a good price from a dealer. The 1400 has plenty of power and never bogged down on me however I've never pushed it to it's limits either. The 2200 is indeed a beast but a very ergonomic one at that. It is one of those tools that you need to pick up to appreciate the design that went into it - it isn't just the next one up from the 1400.
I'm with others on not using a Festool router for router table duties. The table will not necessarily benefit from the design aspects of the tool and there are better options on that front in my opinion. I'd be inclined to invest in a decent lift mechanism and spindle router keeping the Festool's above table. Also if you don't already own the CMS-GE is it still available in your territory or indeed the accessory plates? Can't get the GE unit here in the UK.

 

[jcrowe1950]

FOG,
  I am new to the group and relatively new in the Festool journey but becoming an addict.....
I thought I would reach out and get some insight / opinions on a router set up. I am looking to pick up the OF 1400 or the OF 2200 and couple it with the CMS-GE Set.
    I currently have a cordless trim router but am looking to get something larger and more versatile.  From what I have read the 2200 is capable of just about anything you throw at it, amazing dust collection but rather large. 
    My use would be with stock most likely not larger than 6/4, at least at this point.  I would like to get into using the lock miter bits, running my own profile on casing and base for projects, cabinets and storage for my home.  While I will be using it as a plunge router at times, Im thinking it will have more time on the table. I am a contractor so it will be spending some time on job sites as well.
    My initial concern was the power of the 1400, should it be? I am by no means a cabinet builder and so it will not see the abuse of daily wear and tear.
  Appreciate all the options and input.

SG

Howdy SG and welcome to the group,

    Both routers are fantastic and I doubt you will regret your purchase. I own the OF1400 and have used both routers a decent amount. The OF2200 is not officially supported in the Festool CMS router table, but I know people who use it that way. This has to do with issues related to standard voltage...120V is the U.S. and 240V across Europe. The people I know in the U.S. who run the 2200 in the table use a 30Amp circuit. That said, the OF1400 and OF2200 routers in the Festool table are exceptionally functional. There are some little tricks to using both routers to the best of their capability.  The limit of the OF1400 WRT bits it will effectively spin has most to do with the opening....you mentioned the lock miter bit in 6/4" stock....that would be a pretty huge bit, certainly larger in diameter than the OF1400 can handle.  In fact, in a cursory search, I cannot find a lock miter bit that will handle that thickness. That might be a job for a shaper.

    As to availability of the Festool router table in the U.S., it still shows up on the festoolusa.com website the last time I looked. The CMS-VL which attached to an MFT is no longer sold. One thing about the CMS tables is that they share a common height (900mm) with MFTs so you can use various Festool work surfaces as infeed and outfeed tables. They come with a sliding table with a fence and protractor mechanism so coping is pretty easy. They are pricey but work well as part of the Festool system.

    One thing I'd advise, if you plan to use either router for edge treatment you might want to grab what Festool calls a table widener base. For the OF2200 it comes in a kit with an edge guide and other bases in a separate systainer.

    One final note, whatever router you choose, head over to Rick Christopherson's website RC's Supplemental Manuals and download the excellent supplemental manuals for your tool.

Hope this helps...

JC

 

[Cheese]

Toolnut currently has the CMS in stock.
https://www.toolnut.com/festool-203158-cms-ge-router-table-set.html

 

[DynaGlide]

Toolnut currently has the CMS in stock.
https://www.toolnut.com/festool-203158-cms-ge-router-table-set.html

It's the CMS-VL that has vanished.

 

[Cheese]

It's the CMS-VL that has vanished.

I was told and it was discussed that the CMS-GE was/is/will be obsolete in the US. I believe the CMS-GE is no longer available in Europe, that's the reason I purchased the CMS-GE in September. So when inventory runs out...it's over.  [smile]

I believe the CMS is only available in Europe in the Precisio version.

 

[jeh]

FOG,
  I am new to the group and relatively new in the Festool journey but becoming an addict.....
I thought I would reach out and get some insight / opinions on a router set up. I am looking to pick up the OF 1400 or the OF 2200 and couple it with the CMS-GE Set.
    I currently have a cordless trim router but am looking to get something larger and more versatile.  From what I have read the 2200 is capable of just about anything you throw at it, amazing dust collection but rather large. 
    My use would be with stock most likely not larger than 6/4, at least at this point.  I would like to get into using the lock miter bits, running my own profile on casing and base for projects, cabinets and storage for my home.  While I will be using it as a plunge router at times, Im thinking it will have more time on the table. I am a contractor so it will be spending some time on job sites as well.
    My initial concern was the power of the 1400, should it be? I am by no means a cabinet builder and so it will not see the abuse of daily wear and tear.
  Appreciate all the options and input.

SG

Not to discourage you, but give some serious thought to not buying the Festool router table just because "it is in the system". There are several router tables that blow it away in terms of usability and capabilities. None accept Festool routers, but all accept workhorse motors from several vendors. Jessem, WoodPeckers, Rockler, Kreg, and others. The big differentiators between any of those and the Festool are the router carriage, fence and table size and these are critical.

Consider too that it is being discontinued and is overpriced for what it is (when compared to other options).

 

[jcrowe1950]

FOG,
  I am new to the group and relatively new in the Festool journey but becoming an addict.....
I thought I would reach out and get some insight / opinions on a router set up. I am looking to pick up the OF 1400 or the OF 2200 and couple it with the CMS-GE Set.
    I currently have a cordless trim router but am looking to get something larger and more versatile.  From what I have read the 2200 is capable of just about anything you throw at it, amazing dust collection but rather large. 
    My use would be with stock most likely not larger than 6/4, at least at this point.  I would like to get into using the lock miter bits, running my own profile on casing and base for projects, cabinets and storage for my home.  While I will be using it as a plunge router at times, Im thinking it will have more time on the table. I am a contractor so it will be spending some time on job sites as well.
    My initial concern was the power of the 1400, should it be? I am by no means a cabinet builder and so it will not see the abuse of daily wear and tear.
  Appreciate all the options and input.

SG

Not to discourage you, but give some serious thought to not buying the Festool router table just because "it is in the system". There are several router tables that blow it away in terms of usability and capabilities. None accept Festool routers, but all accept workhorse motors from several vendors. Jessem, WoodPeckers, Rockler, Kreg, and others. The big differentiators between any of those and the Festool are the router carriage, fence and table size and these are critical.

Consider too that it is being discontinued and is overpriced for what it is (when compared to other options).

    Consider that the premier manufacturer of powerful router motors, Porter Cable, no longer makes routers. I'm uncertain if it is possible to even get the more powerful Milwaukee router anymore. I have owned and used a Jessem router table and it is, as you said, good. Having used both, I'm not sure what your criteria for "blowing away" includes, but I have had a different experience. The Kreg is OK too. For me, the Festool router table is a great solution, though I cannot currently justify the price of one, nor do I have the room. In the long run, the individual must weigh his or her own requirements for the purchase of such tools. I can categorically tell you, the motors on the Festool routers are superior to the much cheaper alternatives. That being the case, whether you choose one over the other depends on personal choice. As to being discontinued, that's not what my regional sales rep believes. Perhaps you have another source of information.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have a OF1400 and A OF1010 which cover my needs as far as hand held use. In a router table, it's very hard to beat the Triton. I have used them for many years with great success. The squeeze-ring rotary knob make it work very much like a built-in lift.
Most other set-ups I have seen use a fixed-base Porter-Cable, but I find them quite frustrating. The screw style clamping and the fact that you rotate the entire motor to change bit height are both to fiddley. Other plunge routers require you to push against the spring and gravity to adjust the bit height. The Triton covers this well.
I really like the Festool routers, but I would never put one under a table.

 

[Shglover]

    Amazing amount of info here, thank you for all the input. It great to hear all the opinions and suggestions. One question though, when people say and Ive read this across multiple forums, "I would never put a festoon router under a table." Im assuming that is because Festool router(s) are made more for handheld use Vs being mounted and running stock though it?

again, appreciate the input.

SG

 

[Cheese]

One question though, when people say and Ive read this across multiple forums, "I would never put a festoon router under a table." Im assuming that is because Festool router(s) are made more for handheld use Vs being mounted and running stock though it?

I think it's probably because the Festool routers handle so nicely (as does the Milwaukee BodyGrip) and because they're 2-3 times the cost of a regular router, people feel that it's a shame to just put them under a table and not use all of their features.

Mobility is the reason I purchased a CMS-GE and I'm not sorry for it.  [smile] I already have a Milwaukee 5625 in a table downstairs but it would be impossible to move that equipment outside for the summer. The CMS-GE is easily moved outdoors in 2 carriable packages.

 

[jeh]

FOG,
  I am new to the group and relatively new in the Festool journey but becoming an addict.....
I thought I would reach out and get some insight / opinions on a router set up. I am looking to pick up the OF 1400 or the OF 2200 and couple it with the CMS-GE Set.
    I currently have a cordless trim router but am looking to get something larger and more versatile.  From what I have read the 2200 is capable of just about anything you throw at it, amazing dust collection but rather large. 
    My use would be with stock most likely not larger than 6/4, at least at this point.  I would like to get into using the lock miter bits, running my own profile on casing and base for projects, cabinets and storage for my home.  While I will be using it as a plunge router at times, Im thinking it will have more time on the table. I am a contractor so it will be spending some time on job sites as well.
    My initial concern was the power of the 1400, should it be? I am by no means a cabinet builder and so it will not see the abuse of daily wear and tear.
  Appreciate all the options and input.

SG

Not to discourage you, but give some serious thought to not buying the Festool router table just because "it is in the system". There are several router tables that blow it away in terms of usability and capabilities. None accept Festool routers, but all accept workhorse motors from several vendors. Jessem, WoodPeckers, Rockler, Kreg, and others. The big differentiators between any of those and the Festool are the router carriage, fence and table size and these are critical.

Consider too that it is being discontinued and is overpriced for what it is (when compared to other options).

    Consider that the premier manufacturer of powerful router motors, Porter Cable, no longer makes routers. I'm uncertain if it is possible to even get the more powerful Milwaukee router anymore. I have owned and used a Jessem router table and it is, as you said, good. Having used both, I'm not sure what your criteria for "blowing away" includes, but I have had a different experience. The Kreg is OK too. For me, the Festool router table is a great solution, though I cannot currently justify the price of one, nor do I have the room. In the long run, the individual must weigh his or her own requirements for the purchase of such tools. I can categorically tell you, the motors on the Festool routers are superior to the much cheaper alternatives. That being the case, whether you choose one over the other depends on personal choice. As to being discontinued, that's not what my regional sales rep believes. Perhaps you have another source of information.

Just to follow up on what is clearly my opinion as an prior owner of a Festool router table:
Table size: Festool's is too small to be useful (with or without the extension, unless you exclusively work with short stock). Anyone who has used a bigger table will know this immediately.

Raise/Lower mechanism: Any of router mounts do blow away the Festool implementation. In fact there is no comparison between the
Festool implementation and any other competitors' implementation other than they all go up and down.

Changing bits: Yes you can finagle the router so that you can change the bit without removing it without flipping the mounting plate over, but it's awkward using the wrench above while reaching under for the locking mechanism. The competition allows the motor to be raised high enough so that the bit is above the surface of the table where you can use two wrenches without any problem.

Fence: It is possibly the worse fence I have ever seen. Too short, too narrow, and requires removing two mounting bolts before it can be moved backward for deeper cuts. This is the worst design decision that was made.

To me it defies all logic to buy something that costs more and know is inferior just because it is in "the system" or can hold a specific router. Same is true for the tablesaw insert. Yes it works, but for the price you can buy a standalone portable tablesaw like the small Dewalt, Bosch, etc. It has a very small footprint and can be stored on a shelf or vertically.

For $1760 you can buy a good router table, lift, some accessories, router and have money left over for another tool. Now if it sold for $800 or you could get a used one less than that I could recommend it. I sold my VL, which has a slightly bigger table surface, for $700 which is a number that is representative of the value.

I am not telling anyone what to buy, but am relaying an opinion and the advice to look at other options before throwing down $1760.

 

[jcrowe1950]

    Amazing amount of info here, thank you for all the input. It great to hear all the opinions and suggestions. One question though, when people say and Ive read this across multiple forums, "I would never put a festoon router under a table." Im assuming that is because Festool router(s) are made more for handheld use Vs being mounted and running stock though it?

again, appreciate the input.

SG

    Other opinions notwithstanding, Festool routers work well in the CMS table. One thing that is a limitation with the CMS is using the table mounted router for dados, etc. However, IME, that is an operation best left to use of a jig or the MFT with the guide rail mounted on it. The CMS actually uses the router's plunge mechanism to adjust height and is easy to use and as accurate as my Jessem, probably a bit more so because the screw used for adjustment uses acme threading, thus avoiding backlash. I can see the fence issue being frustrating. However, the issue of table size I don't understand....it's possible to extend the table using MFTs, MW 1000s, even stacked systainers for length. If the depth is an issue, perhaps my usage case for router tables is different. If a piece of work is too large to fit safely on a router table, I use a different approach. Doing dados is an example of this. BTW, another good source of older information but still relevant are Jerry Work's docs on using Festool routers mounted in MFTs both traditionally and as horizontal routers.....it's some brilliant work and he used his setups for making sliding dovetails for shelving in fine furniture. See the Howto section at Jerry Work's Festool Howto Docs
  Two more comments specifically on the CMS router table and I'm done. Out of the box this tool has better dust extraction than I have seen for any other router table....even after having engineered a dust collection box around the router in my Jessem table, dust extraction is nowhere near as functional as what the Festool table comes with. The second thing is a safety feature for anybody doing pin routing with a template on the router table. The Festool CMS OF has a dust extraction port for pin routing that has a finger that rides on the bearing of the router bit that prevents your work entering the wrong side of the bit.....easier to demonstrate than to describe but it's a very nice feature. Best of luck in your search for the most appropriate tool for your application.
  BTW, for transparency, I do actually sell Festool tools as well as use them personally. I have been using routers (non Festool until the last couple of years) both in and out of router tables for over twenty years. I have never actually sold a CMS though I have demo'd the CMS-VL a few times.

    If you do get a router for table use, and you have the resources I would definitely recommend getting something with a router lift and if you can afford it, dedicate a router motor to router table use. My first two home built router tables did not incorporate a lift and adjustment was by trial and error.....just bite the bullet and buy whatever lift system meets your needs.

 

[DynaGlide]

I don't have any trouble replacing bits on the CMS. Just use an offset wrench. Easy.

I'll concede at the retail price point I couldn't justify it unless you had to be completely mobile constantly moving it around. But the fence issues haven't affected me to date. I've built plantation shutters, doors, and drawers using the CMS and for every task it performed beautifully. Being able to line it up with an MFT/3 for infeed/outfeed and that sliding table really came in handy.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I don't have any trouble replacing bits on the CMS. Just use an offset wrench. Easy.

I'll concede at the retail price point I couldn't justify it unless you had to be completely mobile constantly moving it around. But the fence issues haven't affected me to date. I've built plantation shutters, doors, and drawers using the CMS and for every task it performed beautifully. Being able to line it up with an MFT/3 for infeed/outfeed and that sliding table really came in handy.

Yes, if you frequently use it in a mobile situation, it might be the way to go. I however am in a fixed location with plenty of space. My router table is 4' x 8', with the router on one end and cross-cut station on the other.