OF 2200 Router: Member Feedback
- Thread starter Matthew Schenker
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Dave Ronyak
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Markus K. said:
My guess is that two factors predominate in setting the USA pricing:
1) Startup in a new market, and needing to be competitive against other tool brands already established in USA such as DeWalt, Milwaukee, Porter Cable, Makita, etc. when Festool first came to USA a few years ago,
2) Exchange rate between Euro and US dollar. When Festool first began marketing in USA, the dollar and Euro were near parity. Since then the Euro has greatly increased in relative value, to about $1.54 per Euro. It's hard to move prices up rapidly, especially when you are still developing a customer base in the new market, and the competition is still there. I note that the German auto makers have acted similarly to Festool, even though they have been in the USA market far longer. You can buy a German car here for not much more in dollars than a German has to pay in Euros. If the $/Euro exchange rate doesn't soon begin to move toward parity, my guess is that all German (and other European) products are going to become a lot more expensive in USA because their manufacturers cannot continue to absorb these differences indefinitely. Their businesses exist to make profits, too.
Dave R.
greg mann said:
Agreed.
And wouldn't it be odd if, while we're moaning about high prices, Festool was actually losing money at the current prices and exchange rate? It is possible.
Even if they're not losing money, my hat's off to Festool, doing what only a privately held, capitalist company can do well--decide to take risks or forego today's profits for the sake of a future goal.
Ned
Brice Burrell
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Ned Young said:
First, its unlikely they are losing money. Second, Festool isn't doing anything special, they are doing what they have to do to compete. Third, what would you say the future goal is, sell enough of a volume to make a profit at the "lower than the rest of the world prices" or to rise their price to meet them?
I think the 2200 is going to be a very nice router, will it be worth the price?? There aren't many people out there that can make money on a $1200 router with accessories. Last year when the talk was about the Domino, folks grumbled about the price too, but is unique tool that can do things not other tool can. The new tools aren't, we already have routers and miter saws.
The tool collector in me loves the look of the new tools, as a owner of a small company the new tools may be a bad investment. I fear for Festool's long term survival in the US, the prices are making hard core users and even professionals think twice. Designing tools people can't afford is a recipe for failure, if designs like the 2200 are an indication of the future for Festool, I don't see them making it here. I want nothing but success for them, I hope I'm wrong, so here's to a great 2008 for Festool!
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Markus K. said:
Markus, Christian (both) -- you guys really put us to shame. You all speak and write English better than we do. I applaud you.
Well the price shocked me at first (I really expected it to be closer to $600), but after seeing the price of Fein's 8" random orbit sander ($800) in the McFeeley's catalog, the price doesn't seem so bad. For the same costs, I would choose the Festool router over the Fein sander any day. (It's still a lot of money for a router though).
Tom.
Tom.
JCGreenwood
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Matthew Schenker said:
Price is what it is. Only one thing is for certain and that is that the prices for festools will increase next year and the year after that and......Never had buyers remorse on a festool yet and that is what counts.
Back to the router anyone? Love to see these features find their way into a more managable sized tool and keep the 1/2 collet option. Lots of times routing work is not really heavy but features and bit size convenience would be great. Especially here in the states.
Back to the router anyone? Love to see these features find their way into a more managable sized tool and keep the 1/2 collet option. Lots of times routing work is not really heavy but features and bit size convenience would be great. Especially here in the states.
Everyone seems to be concerned about the cost of the new 2200. How about the weight? This thing weighs in at a whopping 6 pounds more than the 2000 it replaces! I'll eventually get over the cost but every time I pick it up it will still weigh 17.2 pounds!
Bill Elliott
Bill Elliott
that's a good point. I have owned a lot of routers and the ones that get used are the light ones. The heavy ones end up collecting dust instead of making it. 17 pounds is way too heavy to be "the tool you reach for". One of the things that makes the domino so great is that it is very light but precise and stable and feels like a "one handed tool". It's a pleasure to use so you just want to use it. A seventeen pound router, even with all the great features, is still going to sit in the box unless you really need it. Put the great features in a comfortable sized router.
Dave Ronyak
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Porkchop,
As you said "Price is what it is. Only one thing is for certain and that is that the prices for festools will increase next year and the year after that and......Never had buyers remorse on a festool yet and that is what counts."
I have already taken that (and my own thoughts) and put them into action - buying what I can afford and think I will want/need before the April 1, 2008 price increase (and maybe more to come). If USA awarded Festool Points, I would probably have earned enough to get at least one free power tool.
Routers: As a hobbyist/DIYer who isn't into solid surface or kitchen or bath remodeling making sink cutouts, I have no use for any router in the class represented by the 2200. The 1400 (and my 13A Freud and 15A PC 7518 for table use) are more than enough power. My wish is that Festool will revisit and update their 1010 to add some of the features of the 2200 and also capability to use 1/2 inch shank bits. The 1010 or another model in that size/weight range is the one likely to get the most use in my shop. I currently reach first for the 1400, but frankly, it is overkill for most of the edging, hinge mortising and veneer inlay jobs I am doing most of the time. A smaller, lighter, router with a lower center of gravity with quality equal to that of the 1400 would be most welcome and would become the most used router in my collection of 5.
Brice,
Let's all hope that FestoolUSA is making money, or if not, is on plan to do so once sufficiently established in USA. Their withdrawal from USA market would be a big blow to all of us. I don't look forward to going back to tools that lack Festool's characteristics, especially precision, low vibration transmission to the user's hands, and dust collection. I used to get numb hands from sanding with my other powered sanders, even when wearing loose fitting heavy leather work gloves and gripping the tools as gently as I could. No more with Festool's sanders.
Dave R.
As you said "Price is what it is. Only one thing is for certain and that is that the prices for festools will increase next year and the year after that and......Never had buyers remorse on a festool yet and that is what counts."
I have already taken that (and my own thoughts) and put them into action - buying what I can afford and think I will want/need before the April 1, 2008 price increase (and maybe more to come). If USA awarded Festool Points, I would probably have earned enough to get at least one free power tool.
Routers: As a hobbyist/DIYer who isn't into solid surface or kitchen or bath remodeling making sink cutouts, I have no use for any router in the class represented by the 2200. The 1400 (and my 13A Freud and 15A PC 7518 for table use) are more than enough power. My wish is that Festool will revisit and update their 1010 to add some of the features of the 2200 and also capability to use 1/2 inch shank bits. The 1010 or another model in that size/weight range is the one likely to get the most use in my shop. I currently reach first for the 1400, but frankly, it is overkill for most of the edging, hinge mortising and veneer inlay jobs I am doing most of the time. A smaller, lighter, router with a lower center of gravity with quality equal to that of the 1400 would be most welcome and would become the most used router in my collection of 5.
Brice,
Let's all hope that FestoolUSA is making money, or if not, is on plan to do so once sufficiently established in USA. Their withdrawal from USA market would be a big blow to all of us. I don't look forward to going back to tools that lack Festool's characteristics, especially precision, low vibration transmission to the user's hands, and dust collection. I used to get numb hands from sanding with my other powered sanders, even when wearing loose fitting heavy leather work gloves and gripping the tools as gently as I could. No more with Festool's sanders.
Dave R.
Just one more item about price - I was looking through my records and noticed that I paid $129 for my Milwaukee circular saw 18 years ago. Just recently, I was at one of the big box stores and they were selling a new Milwaukee saw for $139.! What are the odds that in 18 years a new Festool saw is going to sell for just a few dollars more than what they sell for now??? I know a lot has changed in the tool market in the last 18 years, but I still found it interesting.
Tom.
Tom.
Brice Burrell
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Dan Clark said:
Dan you're right and that is why I not sure Festool will be here in five years. When Festool's prices are going through the roof and the competition doesn't move theirs.....
Bob Marino
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Brice Burrell said:
Brice,
I am very sure Festool will not only be here in 5 years, but will have increased its' market share - bigtime. No, I don't see them having the sames sales as Dewalt or Makita - yet, but there will always be a market for the highest quality tools. I do also understand that the price of the 2200 will take it out of consideration for many customers, but Festool still has the OF 1400 and 1010 routers, which fit most handheld routing needs.
Bob
I have to concur with Bob. Festool is not going anywhere. The 2200 is not for everyone, however, those who KNOW what are after. Who want the piece of mind that a router is not going to chatter, easy to set, easy to set-up for any application with the accessories sys., and know that the router is not going to fail them, the 2200 is smokin' . When a SS fabricator that uses this router to put "bread and butter" on the table can look back in a year and say, "this router has indeed paid for itself"; both with the finished product as well as my lungs, life will be good. I agree the initial sticker shock is one thing, but having the tool in the arsenal that initial "cost" is soon forgotten.
We had the router in the shop yesterday; regardless of price, this is a SMOKIN' HOT ROUTER. These are some shots of 8/4 white oak being hogged off with an Amana 1" roundover. No initial pass. The speed setting was on 3, and there was not even a sign of "flinching" by this bad mamba jamba.
Don T said:
Yes we had a midi hooked to the machine. The only shavings were the drop off the board. If we would have done it "better" we would have had the dust shroud underneath the bit installed, and put the board out over the edge. We did that later and there was nothing that didn't make it up the "vortex" generated by the spring loaded cover! It was slicker than snot!
Timmy
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