OF2200 and Leigh D4R Dovetail Jig Guide Bush Problem

[Guy Ashley]

I have the Leigh D4R Dovetail Jig and have used it with my previous 1/2" router without any problems.

I have also the OF2200 and have recently done a test drawer using the KRA-ZOLL/OF2200 Adaptor

In the UK we have to purchase from Leigh a 711TP and 716TP threaded guidebush to affix to the KRA-ZOLL/OF2200 adaptor to make the system work.

I understand from the Leigh Industries website that these guidebushes are supplied as standard in the US when you purchase the Leigh Jig.

However on using these guide bushes with the KRA-ZOLL/OF2200 adaptor I find there is a good 1mm of play and it is impossible to keep the guide bush centered and so the cut dovetails are out of true and there are awful gaps in the pins and tails.

Anyone else had this problem?

I have not contacted Leigh Industries yet in case there is a simple resolution to this issue so any advice would be appreciated.

Guy  

 

[harry_mc]

Hi Guy,

I just confirmed the same problem on my OF2200 guide bushing adapter using the guide bushings provided by Leigh.  I also tried another brand of guide bushings and noticed signifcantly less play, but still a little.  The problem seems to be a combination of the design of the Leigh guide bushing and the Festool OF2200 adapter.  

Here is a picture of the adapter with the Leigh guide bushing pushed to the top of the picture, and marked with a fine marker:

Here is the same adapter and bushing pushed to the bottom of the picture - notice the gap between where I made the mark before and where the bushing is now:

Part of the problem is the design of the Festool Guide Bushing adapter.  Since there is no recess in the adapter, it relies on the diameter of the threaded portion of the bushing to fit in the hole, rather than the overall diameter of the bushing.  Since the Leigh guide bushing is smaller in diameter where the bushing rests on the adapter vs. the diameter of the threaded portion, there is play.  I tried another guide bushing adapter (this one from Hart Tool) and there was much less play.  I also tried a plate adapter from Whiteside (similar to a guide bushing) and it had even less play.  Note that the hole in the Festool adapter can't be any smaller to clear the threads on the guide bushing.  Here is an image showing the differences between the Leigh guide bushing and the Hart Tool guide bushing that I compared:

Most router plates or adapters that I have seen for use with gude bushings have a recessed portion so that the gude bushing will be level with the plate or adapter, which makes the diameter of the threaded portion less important.  

An example would be the OF1010 router adapter which has a recessed portion:

I suggest that you contact Leigh about this problem.  They may suggest you use another brand of guide bushing, but if you need to use their eliptical guide bushing (such as the e7 which now comes standard with the D4R Pro) or variable guide bushing system (used with the Isoloc templates), you might be out of luck.  By the way, I did try the variable guide bushing and it has the same problem.

Let us know what you find out.  Good luck!

-Harry

 

[Rob-GB]

Just a quick thought, in get the job done for now kind of way...would a few turns of plumbers PTFE tape take the slack out of the threads enough to keep it centered? [scratch chin]
Rob.

 

[JJ Wavra]

Can just use a nut on the bushing and a centering mandrel in the collet to get it squared away.

JJ

 

[Guy Ashley]

Harry

Thanks for the confirmation I am not the only one with a problem using this setup, and thanks for the photo's. If you happy with it I will contact Leigh Industries and use your photo's to demonstrate the problem.

Rob

PTFE is likely to be the fall back position or a hard ring washer, thanks for the suggestion

JJ

Again a viable option but a PITA when the system should work. The Leigh Industries website shows the bushes to be perfectly compatible with the Festool adaptor plate and having paid extra to obtain both the bushes and the adaptor plate I expect it to work.

So I suppose I must prepare for a game of blame ping pong now as I am not sure who would be ultimately responsible for remedying this problem, the manufacturer of the adaptor(Festool) or the manufacturer of the guide bushes (Leigh Industries)

Guy 

 

[JJ Wavra]

I fully understand when it is supposed to work it is supposed to work.  Good luck I hope you get it squared away.
JJ

 

[jvsteenb]

If the Leigh guide bushing adapter is specifically meant for use with the OF2200, I think it should fit. It wouldn't be hard to manufacture the same bushing with a small collar to properly fit the Festool guideplate. As long as the collar is just a bit lower then the guideplates thickness, all would be golden.

Regards,

Job

 

[harry_mc]

Guy,

You are welcome to share the photos with Leigh if it helps solve the problem.

-Harry

 

[CO_JCD]

Thanks for raising the issue - I had noticed the same issue and thought it a poor combination.  Interested in any suitable resolution as I bought the parts but have yet to use them in a project.

John

 

[harry_]

could the OF1010 router adapter be attached to the OF2200 router adapter?

Having the shoulder of that bushing sticking out from the plate just seems like a bad idea to me.

I don't own a 2200, so I am mostly just thinking out loud.

 

[justinmcf]

i had similar problems with my leigh d4r and festool of1400 router.

my problem was that the festool attachment "clips" onto the bottom of the router, which holds the leigh guide bush.

i now use my trusty old festool of2000 for all my leigh jigs, as the router attachment "screws" into position.
i am then able to move the router attachment plus or minus 1mm until it is perfectly centred, then i make sure the 3 screws are tight.

my observations told me that if the festool of1400 had the screw on attachment i would be a happy little camper.
begone with the clip on rubbish!
bring back the screws!

justin.

 

[counterfix]

i stand corrected this is the of 2200 guide plate. this is how we take it from its production tolerances as a piece of stamped steel to a match set of guide plates.
here's what a 1400 looks like

and what we all think we should expect a festool to be.

this is one thing i don't like the distance from the guide plate to the top of the base. as you see if your bushing isn't 1/2 or 12mm its to short.
heres average price bushing set.

the large brass piece is a giude plate blank and this is how to adapt it to the of2200 plate.

using a centering mandrel to center it is a must
to achieve perfect placement.

using cyano or superglue will hold it for the the next few steps

this is nice to have when working with cyano(excelerator)

once the glue is dry you can drill  this should be done with a drill press.then be sure to countersink both plates together this will maintain a perfect fit.

now tap the holes i did 10-24 coutersink  so bolth plates aline when the screws are in place

then measure and cut the screws to the right depth.

this is the finished plate .

as you can see this a perfect fit please note the line scored on the plate for the corect placement if i rotate it 180 deg its not centered.

now you can use both plates together or apart depending on what tolerance is needed.remember to stamp both plates one one side so it is allways assemble corectly.
i hope this helps some of you.
Lance
Counterfix Inc

 

[justinmcf]

thanks lance!

what an awesome step by step process you have shown us!

you summed it up pretty good.....

"what we all expect a festool to be".

we should not have to go to this extreme to make the festool routers work with leigh jigs.
for the price we pay, it should work perfectly out of the box.

once again, thanks for showing the pics and your process.

justin.

 

[Guy Ashley]

Well, this clearly a problem affecting a large number of people who have this combination so I am glad I raised it on the Forum.

I have emailed Leigh Industries explaining the problems being encountered and put a link to this thread so there is access to the detailed photo's so thanks to all of you who have done that.

I will keep the FOG updated with the responses and hope they will be positive.

Oh, anybody use the Festool dovetail jig in preference to the Leigh?  [tongue]

 

[counterfix]

i would just like to say that this is not just a leigh bushing issue there are several brands that that have this issue.
also you should note that these types of bushings allow you to do  a percision fit only becouse its got a loose tolerance
so the centering mandrel can work.

lance

 

[Guy Ashley]

Lance

I appreciate the centering issue but once centered it should be able to be secured rigidly in place. The issue here is not so much the play as the fact that it cannot be secured.

When the knurled nut is tightened onto the threaded bush it still slips and slides so even if you have centered it perfectly on the first pass when you press the bush against the finger guides it slides out of alingement.

Guy

 

[harry_mc]

Just a note of clarification for those of you who might be considering the modification Lance describes above:  What you are seeing in his  pictures is the OF2200 with the Table Widener Base (494682), which is an optional base that is much thicker (about 3/16") than the standard base due to the metal plate that is used to stiffen the base.  

If you were using the much thinner standard base, the brass metal plate Lance used to modify the template adapter would be too thick to use as it would extend beyond the base plate.  Also, you wouldn't be able to use the modified adapter with the optional template guide base (494675).

Still, if you primarily use the Table Widener Base, the modification might be a good choice for you.

-Harry

 

[jvsteenb]

I'm probably a bit thick, but why not use the standard 12.7 mm (1/2") guide bushing Festool stocks for the OF2200 ? Its partnr. 495339, at least over here it is.
Just trying to visualise the problem here....

Regards,

Job

 

[Guy Ashley]

Job

No you are not being thick, and I appreciate your suggestion as a possible resolution but the Leigh guide bushes are 7/16" and 5/8" and so utilising the Festool 1/2" guide bush will either leave the fit too sloppy or too tight and still require clean up that makes it inefficient from a commercial point of view.

I honestly do appreciate your input as we are all resouceful individuals who try and overcome problems with innovative resolutions on a daily basis, however my issue is as follows.

I have upgraded to the Festool OF2200 at great expense and it is indeed a fantastic router.

I have used the Leigh Dovetail jig for years and am very happy with the results it gives not only in quality but also in production time.

Having looked at the Leigh industries "Guide Bush Selection Chart" I was informed that in order to utilise the OF2200 and the Leigh Jig I need to purchase an additional Festool adaptor and two additional threaded guide bushes the combined cost of which is about GBP 70.

Having spent that money and found that it does not work as it should according to the guidance provided then I am a little miffed!!!

If having spent GBP 70 on something that does not work and being a little miffed is being anal then I will willing accept that.

Thats the problem!

Guy 

 

[jvsteenb]

Guy,

I see. I totally understand why you're a bit aggravated. I would be.... and if that makes me somewhat anally retentive, I'll gladly join the club.
I still think the Leigh rings should have a decent 1" collar so you wouldn't experience this problem, but they clearly don't ....
Is it possible to layer a small gasket of tacky rubber ( say a piece of bicycle repair stuff ) between the guidebushing and the adapter plate ?
You would obviously have to cut it yourself, but that wouldn't be to big a problem, I suppose.
That way you could use a centering mandrel and when thightened, the bushing would be much less suscebtible to move around.
Just a thought....

Regards,

Job