Old Kapex Worth It?

[mculik5]

I'm looking at an old Kapex for $500. It's likely from when they were introduced, which I believe was 2008. It was used by a professional cabinetmaker. He says the motor is fine. It's missing the blade guard and I'll need to buy a blade. It looks well used but not abused.

Thoughts on whether this is a good deal?

I'm a hobbyist and am redoing the trim in my house. I have several other Festool tools plus a CT MIDI. However, my current miter saw is a basic DeWalt model and figured I'd never have a Kapex due to the cost. I was looking at upgrading my current setup to a DeWalt 780 or Makita 1219 for $700ish. Getting a Kapex for the same money plus some time invested in tuning it up seems like a great deal to me, but $500 seems too good to be true.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there.

 

[waho6o9]

View attachment 1

Tough call.

There's a Kapex Armature pdf that you might want to look at first to see if you want to go thru that. 
Or be prepared to send it into Festool for repair if the need arises.

All the best. 

 

[ChuckM]

The Kapex EB has always been a mystery story, because no one knows, except Festool, what really happened. Were there 20 smoking motor fixes or 50 or 200? The person who used to deal with Festool machine repairs or warranty coverage at a local dealer told me he himself had never processed any smoking motors (for the 8 to 9 years he had had that responsibility).

Instead of worrying about a problem that may never happen to your saw, I'd focus on checking on its precision and accuracy, using properly prepared scraps. Check everything that you want from the Kapex is there (including if the bed is flat, fence straight and square  etc.). My Kapex EB is 7 years old, used regularly with no maintenance needed other than cleaning the laser guard, oiling and dust vaccumimg (after each use).

$450 - 500 sounds reasonable if it passes all the tests. If I were to sell my saw in good running condition at a lower price, say, $300, I'd rather gift it to someone.

I think cheaper blades are available or can the blade that comes with blade be sharpened (for $30 or so)?

P.S. I use the Kapex on a separate circuit from the vac, as somewhere I read, motor failures, according to some, could have been related to drawing current from one 15amp source for both the saw and extractor.

 

[danrush]

I have one of the first saws introduced in the states. It's been in service on job sites full time and I have installed literally miles of crown and trim with nothing more than routine maintenance.

If your saw passes the tests noted earlier, I'd buy it for 4--500.00. Even with the added expense of the blade guard and possible tune up, you'll be getting a good machine.

Don't buy a cheap blade, though. I generally run 4-6 Festool blades ( a couple with the truck, spares in the shop, and a couple in transit to the sharpening service).  I do have a Tenyru Silencer  that I like. It's a bit less expensive.

 

[RussellS]

I can't say I've kept up with current SCMS prices.  So I may be way out of date.  But $500 for a very old and used, but not abused, saw seems kind of steep.  And as you mentioned, it does require repair and a new blade.  $100-200 for that?  I'm sure the Kapex is the greatest saw ever conceived by humanity.  But I recently trimmed a few rooms using my old Makita SCMS.  Cut perfectly good.  You are looking at close to 50% for this old used Kapex as brand new Kapex price.  Or the same price or more as a Dewalt, Bosch, Makita SCMS brand new.

 

[ChuckM]

A new KS120REB is $1,600US plus tax here. Or, in Cdn currency, $2,000 (give or take) plus tax.

Yes, it's crazily expensive and that's why I think anyone who buys a new Kapex and doesn't get what they expect should return the saw within 30 days for a full refund or for a replacement that is in tip top conditions.

Finely tuned, the Kapex delivers the smoothest and deadly accurate performance. Yes, both a Kia and a BWM can get a person from point A to point B.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I'm a DeWalt guy on this particular thing, because I can't get along with the vertical handle and safety switch on the trigger. It's a personal (and left handed) thing. SCMS, of good quality, are indeed expensive, so a Kapex at that price seems ok. Assuming the tests from before get a passing grade.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm a DeWalt guy on this particular thing, because I can't get along with the vertical handle and safety switch on the trigger. It's a personal (and left handed) thing. SCMS, of good quality, are indeed expensive, so a Kapex at that price seems ok. Assuming the tests from before get a passing grade.

I initially thought the handle design was bizarre having come from an ELU TGS173 which was just awesome, but very quickly got used to it, and I can use it for many hours without getting unduly tired or sore in the wrist surprisingly.

Is it the weight distribution in the head that makes it more awkward for a left hander as I would have thought it would suit either reasonably equally well?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's mostly the wrist angle that bothers me, though I hate all of the "two-step" switches too.
My miter saw station is very high, which I prefer, but it is not well suited for vertical handles, no matter the brand. All of the newer ones seem to have that little tab or button that you have to move first, in some way or another, even the DeWalt. Mine is a 10" (DW717?) that is no-longer available. I have never seen anything about it being officially discontinued, but you can't find them.
I honestly don't know what I would do if I had to replace it for some unforeseen reason.

 

[kevinculle]

I have a 2009 vintage Kapex that I bought used in 2016 with UG stand and extensions for about half of then retail price.  The price you are looking at is very fair as long as the saw runs well.

 

[peacefulandpatriotically]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] looks like it was discontinued...looking at a few of the reviews from that web page it seems a bunch of other folks weren't happy with the decision to discontinue that model
https://www.dewalt.com/product/dw717/10-254-mm-double-bevel-sliding-compound-miter-saw

 

[Peter Kelly]

Grab it, $500 isn't terrible.

 

[RussellS]

Grab it, $500 isn't terrible.

But its not $500.  Its $500 plus a new blade plus a new guard.  Which would make it about $700 probably.  Above a person "kevinculle" says he bought a 2009 Kapex in 2016 for about half price.  That was a 7 year old saw.  The one in this thread is from 2008-2010 or so.  And its 2023 now.  So about 13 year old saw.

 

[ChuckM]

The vertical design has never been an issue or a concern for me since day 1. I tried the saw/handle for the first time in the showroom, and didn't leave any burn mark on a 3" square maple block they provided for test cuts.

Depending on where I place the board, I operate the saw with either of my hands, and I have got used to the vertical handle and its switch. I hold the handle with only a moderate grip, and can make cuts after cuts non-stop like, without tiring my wrist, arm or hand. No dead grip...hold the handle like using a dovetail saw.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] looks like it was discontinued...looking at a few of the reviews from that web page it seems a bunch of other folks weren't happy with the decision to discontinue that model
https://www.dewalt.com/product/dw717/10-254-mm-double-bevel-sliding-compound-miter-saw

I assumed as much, but the last time I checked, there was no official word on it. I don't get it though? It's a great saw. I have never gotten along well with any 12" saw. They might be ok for framers and deck builders, but there is just too much deflection in the blade.
Way back I had the 8 1/2" version, and had no issue with it either. It did what I needed it to, but I was destroyed in an accident. When I went to replace it, the 10" version had just been introduced. I bought it simply because of blade compatibility with the standard cabinet saws. It performed just as well. That one was destroyed in the shop fire of 2019. At that time, the DW717 was still available, but I had to special order it.  It has served me well, never a complaint. I don't know why they would discontinue it. Maybe the switch? It does not have a secondary safety switch, like the 12" model does, that may be it. They don't want the legal issues or redesign cost? I never got any kind of recall about it though.
Part of my appreciation of the lack of that second safety switch is that I use it with either hand interchangeably.

 

[mculik5]

I decided to go for it...

The saw was in a bit rougher shape than the pictures let on (but still no signs of abuse), so I got it for $400 with two crown stops, plus the clamp and angle transfer thing. He demonstrated the motor and I've since turned it on a few times and it seems fine (without a load, at least). Both lasers also work and haven't ever been touched (no holes in the sticker).

I've never used a Kapex before, so maybe some of these things are normal, but the biggest things I've noticed are:

- Miter lock handle is very stiff to unlock (but locks down easily and very tightly)
- There's some play (+/- 0.5 deg on the vernier) in the detents with the saw unlocked
- There's some noticeable wiggle in the motor head in the middle of its travel; it's rock solid at the top and bottom, wiggles only in the middle
- The circular part of the table seems to be bit higher than the two wings
- The saw slides nicely with the handle in the lower position, but is much harder to slide when the handle is up

The guy didn't seem like the type to knowingly jerk me around. I was looking at the Makita 1219, so I'd be getting a new blade either way (since my current saw is 10"). My hope is that for $500-$600 total plus some time, I'll have Kapex and $300-$400 more in my pocket vs. the Makita after taxes.

We'll see...

 

[luvmytoolz]

You did well, there's $400 in just the attachments you got!

The angle attachment's a funny one, you'll probably rarely need it, but when you do you'll be so glad you have it! It's amazingly usefull.

Can't really comment on the wiggle, but with being able to move the table slightly, are you pushing the larger lever at the front down to lock it in place?

 

[morts10n]

The Makita saw is twice as good as the Kapex...Ive had 2 Kapex that both burned out, and one got replaced by the Makita...when the other Kapex burns out for the 2nd time, Ill get another Makita. Waaaay more capacity when mitering and equal dust collection. I have 15k invested in other Festool btw

 

[kevinculle]

We will likely never know but I suspect that the Kapex motor failure issues were the result of either subtle design changes or more likely, production process drift over time that resulted in a failure rate spike that was quite noticeable. but still modest as a percentage of total production.  I don't recall hearing of any early Kapex saws...say with production dates prior to 2015 or so, that experienced this failure mode.  I think your final price of $400 with the accessories was a very good bargain.  Happy cutting!

 

[Cheese]

Congrats...I'd purchase a used Kapex for $400 in a heart-beat and set it up in the garage to cut construction materials. Eliminates multiple trips downstairs.  [smile]