On Festool sales

Tinker

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
3,796
Lately, I have been seeing a problem on the FOG that bothers me a bit.  There is a certain salesman from McFeely’s,  who seems to be taking every opportunity to advertise his company and product.  There are several FESTOOL SALES PEOPLE who visit regularly and have been very helpful when asked.  Often, they have pitched in with great advice even when not asked directly.  Their replies have always been concise, precise and totally on subject.  Nothing more and nothing  (within reason) less.  I am sure almost every one who visits has appreciated their advice as often as they have entered the fray, so to speak.  What I am objecting to is that this Mr. Holland seems to be taking more and more liberties in the advancement of his personal commerce under the guise of helpfuness.
There seems to be a whole lot of McFeelys does this, McFeelys has this etc.  The others, who are admittedly Festool sales people are saying “Festool does this” or “Festool has this.”  I think such an approach is totally in line

The problem has been discussed before, and the concensus had been that it is fine for Festools sales people, whether independent, or otherwise, to pitch in as they were being very helpful and were/are much appreciated.  Since that discussion, it seems Mr. H has gone into high gear.  It is as if he has been given the green lite to take every opportunity to advance his own business.  Granted, he has been helpful in showing many items & promotions many of us had known nothing about.  However, I am not sure his way is the right way to go.  If all of these salesmen work as hard at selling personal business, it does become a commercial site.  I fear that others will jump in and soon, there will be a question about motives.

I, being a self employed, single operator type business have been, myself, victimized by the bigger business types who love to come around with flyers and fancy production methods and promise to the moon.  In this respect, I may be a bit prejudiced in my understanding of the situation.  I am, personally, very thankful for all the help I can get from all of the sales people who are joining in. They, including Mr. H., are all very helpful in distributing their knowledge about Festool products.  I do object to the seemingly high handed methods of self promotion which seems to be asserting itself here from one the particular company.  I am hoping the practice will cool off just a tad. We need all of you guys.  we are all here to find out more about FESTOOL. 

 
Tinker,

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more.  I'll take help and constructive suggestions from any quarter I can get them.  I sure haven't found comments from the McFeeley's rep anything but helpful. I think I am intelligent enough to see thru blatant self-promotion that serves no other purpose and so far I haven't seen that.
To date I have purchased all of my Festool merchandise from a Festool Rep and have been very satisfied.  That being said, I believe in free enterprise and competition keeps service levels high and prices reasonable.  I like the freedom that purchasing options give me.  I have purchased merchandise from Mcfeeleys on a number of occassions, have been very impressed with them and will continue to give them my business as long as they are competitive and continue to provide superior custome service.
Good to have you at the table Shawn!
 
Lets not turn this into a spat....

But shorter Tinker.

If the helpful competition between Festool ISA's progress's

to the next logical level, the level of this forum will be lowered.

Two Penny Per
 
Tinker, I fully agree.  So much so that I wrote to Matt off line to discuss my concern with posts from the McFeely's representative.

It's one thing to respond with helpful advice, but, as a dealer, you need to keep the high (and low) pressure sales out of it.

The one post that put me over the top is the response from this individual that he really knew nothing about the subject (that the OP had asked), but that he could contact the McFeely's technical folks (link included) who could certainly help him - and I believe there may have been a link to the product page on the website also.

Not in the spirit of the group, IMHO.  If he knew nothing, then don't respond - let others who can help do so.

This behavior (and other posts) is blatant salesmanship, and Matt and the group have specifically asked that this not occur.

Although many ordered the decals form him, I did not, for this very reason.

So, Tinker, I agree with you.

Ed
 
Whenever a member of a message board promotes themselves in such a manner that it directs members to thier website there is only one word for it "SPAM". Suggestions to answers to problems can be made without providing links.

People join message boards to receive unbiased opinions of other users, not retailers on the theme of the board. In this case Festools. They can call the retailer via telephone should there be a need.

 
As long as the Festool dealers are clearly identified, and they are, I see no problem with a little self promotion.

I recall, in particular, that Shane was the first to break the news about the coming price increase.

The way the forum works, its easy to skip past a post or not click in the first place.

For instance, I don't read the posts about what a great guy Bob Marino is (though I agree he's a great guy).  But I don't have a problem with someone posting them if he wants to....
 
I don't see a problem with it at all. Its a Festool Forum so why not preach what you sell, doesn't bother me the least little bit...
 
It seems to me that this issue was resolved recently by the creation of the Dealer Zone board.  One of the posts that some would see as self-promotion has been moved to the Dealer Zone.

Another high quality forum, Sawmill Creek, has a similar set of boards where vendors can exchange information with forum members, and post product and/or service promotions.  That concept has worked very well there, as it should here.

Let's not be closing the barn door after the horse is gone.  The issue has been resolved, IMHO.

ps Perhaps the horse is gone because we're beating a dead one???
 
Personally I don't see any problem with how any of the dealers have represented themselves, Shane included.  I know they are trying to increase sales, and apply the necesary filters when reading their post.  I have found his post informative and am thankfully for having vendor reps present on the board.  My 2c....
 
There are obviously two sides to this issue.  First... 

There is the need for users (AKA you and me) to share all sorts of information about Festool products with other Festool users in a environment free of promotional messages.  Prospective Festool buyers want feedback from current Festool users to help them make their buying decisions.  Other users want help in solving a usage problem, designing a jig, or one of a thousand other issues that crop up.

For example, yesterday there was a discussion about toolboxes versus sortainers for storing small hand tools like screwdrivers and chisels (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=529.0).  Some people liked systainers, some liked using a Systainer 4, and some like a tool bag (I use a Veto Pro Pac).  Users shared their opinions free of constraints based on needs and preferences. 

Dealers may provide a good opinion, but we (as users) still think "Is that feedback good quality or is it based on the Dealer's need to sell what they have?"    Sometimes the dealer information, especially the factual information (size, type, quantity) is VERY useful.  Other times, especially when it relates to package deals and specials, the information is annoying and is just noise.  For some people, Dealer posts are irritating.

Now let's look at the other side of the issue...

Dealers can provide qood quality information, even when the information is promotional.  They offer a package deal or promotiom on products in which you are interested.  They make you aware of other alternatives that you had not thought of. 

Also, when you've made your purchase decisions, you need to decide WHERE to purchase.  You need to know the available buying alternatives, to get a sense of each Dealers, and to understand what kind of service they provide. 

Dealer posts, even when promotional, provide valuable information for some people and don't bother them at all.

That's why we now have a "Dealer Zone" and a "User Zone".  The goal is to address both sides of the issue.  The Dealer Zone is where Dealers are relatively free to promote themselves, their company, and their products.  The User Zone is everywhere in the FOG forum outside of the Dealer Zone.  In the User Zone, Festool Dealers are encouraged to provide help and feedback, but promotional posts and content are excluded. 

Regards,

Dan.

 
I think i made it clear that i feel every one of the dealers have a lot to give to the FOG, including the McFeely's dealer.  He has come up with some good answers and helpful alternatives.  what I have objected to is that he has upon ocassion administered his products as if McFeely is the the only place where some things are available.  I am not going back thru all of the posts, but it has turned out, thru resulting conversations, that the tools, promotions, or whatever, were availble to others as well.  I have no problem with any dealer stating a tool or promotion as being available to the general woodworkers from any/all dealers.  It just seemed that there was a whole lot of McFeely's has this or that, when, in fact, the item was available thru any dealer.  He can tell me with every post that he is a McFeely's dealer or representative.  I think that is fair and reasonable.  But let him give credit that other dealers have the same range and availabiltiy as he has.  i asked that he just cool it a tad.  i think that is possible without turning this into a case of rants. 

again, i do appreciate the info from Mr. Holland and all of the other dealers/salesmen who have joined in with advice and information.  i do not wish for any changes to be made to the overall format; and i certainly am not looking to black ball the dealers, including Shane.  that is not my position.
Tinker
 
If this salesman wants to take it upon himself to promote both his company and himself, I see absoloutely nothing wrong with it.  "Salesmanship" is not a dirty word.  What if there weren't any salespeople responding to this forum?  Maybe all the other salespeople are lazy and don't want to take the time to promote.  There's a big difference between "order takers" and "salesman".  Unfortunately, the majority of salespeople have really no idea how to sell, only how to take an order.  If you don't want to do business with him or don't like his tactics then that's your decision, but I see no reason to gather up the members of this forum against an individual who is enthusiastic and is trying to generate business.
 
First, my disclaimer. I don't post much here because I'm usually in 'sponge mode' simply because you guys/gals are light years ahead of me in Festool skills & knowledge.

I'm not at all 'put off' by the readily identified dealers on this site providing helpful info and promoting their business at the same time. All the dealers that participate here provide a real 'value add' IMHO to the discussions and if they can drum up business in order to stay in business then so be it.

Now what does concern me is that since Festool has tweaked their sales model I - in no-mans land of Vermont - have two local sources within an hour drive to choose from (where as I had zero before the change). Neither source is very well trained, doesn't have much inventory and in short gets the deer-in-the-headlights look when I ask a question - any question. That is a REAL problem when we're talking about a premium brand, premium priced tool.

-Norm
 
If I was Festool I'd tell the dealer to get his salespeople trained NOW, or lose the franchise.  These dealers are the ones who will start the discounting process and not offer much in the way of service.  Their attitude is, "sell em and forgetem".
 
WOW Tinker, you got all of us riled up and drawing a line in the sand:)  One thing we all have in common is we're using great tools and support is about as good as it gets.  Lets all meet at Tinkers place for a shootout at high noon!  Uhh, that'd be Pacific time boys.  After that we can all ride into McFeely's and have a drink.  Bring your gold because we're going to be buying from old Holland too.  See you there ;D
 
Great idea but be careful about being too rowdy in the McFeely's Saloon, gentlemen!

Quite a few of us were Deadwood fans!  ;D

On a serious note, we welcome any and all visitors with gold. In fact, I have a sign in the front lobby that reads "We reserve the right to never refuse service to anyone with gold."
 
Atta boy Ron, I'll be riding the Grey Sustainer with Green neck and I'll buy ya a drink!  (If I make throught the shootout)
 
Just my opinion, but I think some people are making far too much out of this. Sure, I noticed there's more of a sales pitch theme to Shane's posts. SO WHAT! If Shane were coming here and trying to give a sales pitch to all of us for a competitor's product, than it would bother me. This is a Festool forum afteral. I deal with Bob Marino and I can't see any reason why I'd ever switch to someone else. Most of you already deal with someone you're happy with (well, the majority of you anyway) and you'll most likely continue to do so like I will. So really, what difference does it make? Overall, I think Shane has been an excellent part of this forum.
 
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