Oneida Supercell to Kapex

[Joelm]

Hello,

I just took delivery of a new Oneida Supercell today. I plan on running quick connect pipe throughout my shop and at the very end of the run I was hoping to attach it to my Kapex.

Here is my design so far:
View attachment 1

With a picture of where my Kapex actually sits in my shop:
View attachment 2

I have 3 options and I was hoping for some ideas on which one is best.

1- run a 2.5" hose from the hard pipe to the dust port on the Kapex. Has anyone done this? What adapter from Oneida did you use? This would make my CT15 redundant and create space under the Kapex for offcut storage.

2- Keep the CT15 hooked up and create a dust shroud around the Kapex and hook the 4" hard pipe directly to that for extra dust extraction

3- I guess this option is to not bother with the Supercell at the Kapex. Save a bit of money on the hard pipe and keep the CT15.

Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciate. I'm finalizing the ductwork design with Oneida now and am hoping to order later this week.

 

[ChuckM]

For best dust collection to protect my lungs, I'd choose option 2 (over option 1 for space).

 

[Joelm]

Thanks ChuckS, that kind of where I was leaning too. This will also make the ducting easier.

 

[tsmi243]

The Supercell is too different from other existing systems.  You're the only one who can find the answer, and you'll just have to try some things and see what that bad boy can do. 

I don't have one, but I'm really interested to see how it does for you.  I thought the Supercell was gonna be a total game-changer when it came out, but it doesn't sound like it's winning many people over.  Some of that may be people trying to reuse existing tool-end ports that were tuned for a different system (either shop vac, or 4"+ DC).  I know on the tools I've got, there's a LOT more room for improvement on the tool than on the suction system.  So there could be an in-between size (or in-between use case) that's just right, and if that fits your *tools*, then a Supercell could be a real winner. 

Long story short, I would mock up a full hood on your Kapex.  Cardboard and tape.  Do a 4" port straight from the DC, and see if it has enough CFM to make you happy.  If not, the answer is either to reduce the area (tighten up the hood) OR just abandon the idea and try the 2.5" reducer.  If THAT doesn't work, rethink whether you really want this thing in your shop.

 

[Mini Me]

Use 6" pipe, a 4" will limit air flow and it won't work if building a shroud and building a shroud is the only true answer. Why won't it work? The maximum air flow in 4" is reckoned to be about 750 CFM against 1200CFM for 6"

 

[tsmi243]

Use 6" pipe, a 4" will limit air flow and it won't work if building a shroud and building a shroud is the only true answer. Why won't it work? The maximum air flow in 4" is reckoned to be about 750 CFM against 1200CFM for 6"

See what I mean?  [smile] The Supercell doesn't move that many CFM at ANY duct size.  This is great advice for a traditional DC, but doesn't make sense with a 465cfm hi-pressure system.  (and Mini Me is a GREAT source of advice if you choose to switch to a regular DC, no offense intended I think he just misread which system you've got)

 

[Joelm]

Here is a video that helped me wrap my head around a high static pressure dust collector vs a traditional dust collector. He does not use a Supercell but a Camvac which is a similar idea but I don't believe it is as strong.


Nice thing about the Supercell is I don't need to worry about 6" pipes or hoses in my small shop. Everything is 4" or smaller.

The other nice thing is the size, under 2'X2' fully contained compared to my hodge podge of a dust collector I currently have.

 

[xedos]

Use 6" pipe, a 4" will limit air flow and it won't work if building a shroud and building a shroud is the only true answer. Why won't it work? The maximum air flow in 4" is reckoned to be about 750 CFM against 1200CFM for 6"

um………NO  [scared]

The supercell only supports 4” ducts and smaller.  Using 6” will not make it better , just the opposite.

 

[Rob Z]

Hello Joel

I have a Supercell and I am still getting used to it. It is a different machine for sure.  One thing to check before you use it in place of your CT-15 (I think you referred to this as option 1) is whether there is a limit on starts and stops per hour.  I recall with my Oneida Mini Gorilla that the recommendation was not more than about 6 on/off cycles per hour (I might be off a little on that number).  I haven't used my Supercell in any way that would require numerous and rapid on/off cycles like might occur with a miter saw. My sales rep was helpful with questions I have had in the past with various Oneida products, and I could forward his contact info to you if you want to call someone to discuss things.

BTW, nice shop wall you've arranged in the picture.

 

[Mini Me]

See what I mean?  [smile] The Supercell doesn't move that many CFM at ANY duct size.  This is great advice for a traditional DC, but doesn't make sense with a 465cfm hi-pressure system.  (and Mini Me is a GREAT source of advice if you choose to switch to a regular DC, no offense intended I think he just misread which system you've got)

In that case it won't support enough flow for a mitre saw hood/enclosure.

 

[Joelm]

In that case it won't support enough flow for a mitre saw hood/enclosure.

I got the idea for a miter saw enclosure from Oneida's user gallery. Someone here used a Supercell for the dust port and enclosure. I guess I'll just have to give it a try.

https://www.oneida-air.com/blog/jason-straw-supercell-testimonial

Thanks Rob. Both sides of my shop are all french cleats so I can move things around as I upgrade/buy new toys
I had not thought of start/stop cycles. I assumed since they were vacuum motors it wouldn't have a problem with it. I'll reach out to the sales rep I have been talking to. I agree, their customer service has been great. Dan at Oneida has been very patient with me and answered all of my questions.

 

[ChuckM]

Worth a try, but note that in that particular set-up, the Supercell unit is so close to the miter saw.

 

[tsmi243]

See what I mean?  [smile] The Supercell doesn't move that many CFM at ANY duct size.  This is great advice for a traditional DC, but doesn't make sense with a 465cfm hi-pressure system.  (and Mini Me is a GREAT source of advice if you choose to switch to a regular DC, no offense intended I think he just misread which system you've got)

In that case it won't support enough flow for a mitre saw hood/enclosure.

Agreed, which is what I'm saying about the Supercell.  It's an in-between size & pressure.  Too small for hoods, too big for shop vac ports.  What's it good for, then?  Obviously something in between, which doesn't yet widely exist.  We may find thru trial and error that it's best suited for 3" pipe, for example.  Where do you get tools with 3" ports?  For now, they'd have to be custom built.

If you switch to a smaller enclosure, like this one, you don't need a ton of volume but you do need a bit of pressure-

For something like this, a shop vac is a little too low on CFM, and a 6" port is too low on pressure. 
Something like a Supercell, combined with 3 or 4" pipe, might be juuuust right. 
And it might not.  Only way to know is for somebody to try it and see.

 

[Joelm]

I just thought I'd post an update on this.

Last week I got my ductwork installed but found that I was short by a few feet to get the ducting all the way to my Kapex. I was going to order a few more small pipes to get over then had an idea to try and hook up a 4" flex hose directly to the Kapex. That failed horribly, but after a few seconds I thought why not see if my 36mm hose would fit on a reducer Oneida sent me.

I got out my anemometer and took these readings (I'm sure I've set the Area wrong but the difference in values is what I'm looking at). From the end of a 36mm hose I got
CT15 = 40 CFM
SuperCell = 55 CFM

So now I've hooked up my old 36mm hose I dedicated to my Kapex to the end of my SuperCell run. I did some testing of air quality with a Dylos air quality monitor and cut up some 2x4 stock I had lying around. The air quality was slightly elevated after several cuts but was noticeably better than with the CT15.

I'll live with this set up for now and see how I like it. My only complaint is now having to manually turn the collector on. It is not as convenient even with the supplied remote. I may purchase a second remote just to live near the Kapex.

 

[Peter_C]

I may purchase a second remote just to live near the Kapex.

Figure out what type of RF remote you need and order a bunch of remotes for each piece of equipment.
Key Fob Remote

 

[Rob Z]

Good evening Joel

Did you ever contact your rep at Oneida to ask about the start/stop cycle question we discussed earlier in the thread?

Rob

 

[Joelm]

Yes I did.  Here is the reply I got:

We say that limiting it to 5 start/stops an hour is best. If you plan to have the machine off for only 5-10 minutes just keep it running. This is more for the larger electric motors but still a good rule of thumb for this 220V system

I am not in a production setting so I can work with these guidelines. If someone was doing this all day,  they might have a problem. But then again, he said they recommend it for all of their other dust collectors.

 

[Rob Z]

Joel,

Thanks for the update and that's good to know. That's pretty much what I did with both mini-gorillas I owned as well as the Dust Cobra-I would leave the DC running while moving lumber around or changing settings on the machines.  I think the start up on the motor is a lot harder on it than just letting it run.

Rob

 

[Joelm]

Another quick update:

I decided to see how many CFM's my CT26 had and noticed it was quite a bit more than my CT15. That made me look more closely at my CT15 and realize that my bag was full. Oops.

A quick back change and the difference between the SuperCell and CT15 is negligible. I'm going to keep my Kapex hooked up to the CT15 as it has the autostart feature. For now I'm leaving the SuperCell port closed but may one day look into a hood like tsmi243 recommended. It would have been nice to streamline the Kapex and make some space by getting rid of the CT15 but I think I'd miss the autostart feature too much. I could add an auto start to the SuperCell but that would cost quite a bit more to buy the equipment.

 

[ChuckM]

As good as the Kapex rubber shroud is in capturing dust, it can't handle the dust spills that will be collected by a saw hood. There's no room in my shop for a saw hood, and as a mitigation measure, I install the sawtachc shroud when I make lots of cuts or when trench/dado cuts are made.