Osmo LED Smart Oil

[SitkaZach]

I figured to start a discussion on Osmo LED Smart Oil, the new almost-instant cure oil that can take the place of Osmo Polyx and Top Oil for interior finish. Unfortunately it's for professional use only due to safety regulations, but anyone with a business license can buy it.

The great benefit is that the oil has a long open time, and cures instantly after a couple passes of an expensive UV lamp—which means two coats and out the door in the same day.

The finish doesn't require an Osmo branded UV LED lamp, but if you want to go that direction, the light retails for about $1900. The oil is a little more expensive than standard Polyx, but not much.

If anyone has experience, I'd love to hear. The UV lamps are currently sold out in the US, but I'll be getting mine within the next few weeks, and will post my experiences once I've finished a few things.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I wonder how much oil is actually left in this kind of product? The UV curing part, has to be some sort of polymer, doesn't it? Is it really absorbed by the wood, then cured inside it, like an oil finish. All of the other UV finishes seem to be film finishes.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm very interested in this myself. I find the last mile finishing takes an inordinate amount of time to build up a robust finish, but a UV cured finish could greatly enhance the end result, and also give a much better finish for the epoxy resin part depending on the finish used.

I did try out some UV cured epoxy resin for spot filling in dimples in the cured resin, but was extremely unhappy with the result, took ages to really harden and when cured you could actually separate it so the bonding just wasn't the same. It also didn't cure the same shade so was a little obvious.

I'll be really interested to hear your results when you post, especially the surface penetration as CRG raised above.

 

[SitkaZach]

I wonder how much oil is actually left in this kind of product? The UV curing part, has to be some sort of polymer, doesn't it? Is it really absorbed by the wood, then cured inside it, like an oil finish. All of the other UV finishes seem to be film finishes.

Darn good question! My understanding is that the UV Oil is a direct replacement for Polyx, which has great penetration into the wood. Unmatched in my experience.

My sales rep talks about both the standard Polyx and UV Oil both being a microporous finish, which to my understanding means that the finish is in the wood, not just on the surface. But I really don't know. I'll give a report in a few weeks or so when I've tried it.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I've been happy with the PolyX results, although I haven't done any testing for hot cups or stains on the surface. It'd be very interesting to see how this UV finish handles real world stains and usage.

 

[MacBoy]

When @SitkaZach gets the UV Oil, can you try it outside in natural sunlight?

Curious how well that “free” method will work.

Of course, that’s assuming the outside temps in Alaska are within the appropriate range of the specs.

Thank you!

 

[luvmytoolz]

When @SitkaZach gets the UV Oil, can you try it outside in natural sunlight?

Curious how well that “free” method will work.

Of course, that’s assuming the outside temps in Alaska are within the appropriate range of the specs.

Thank you!

If it's anything like the standard UV epoxy resin I used, sunlight curing was next to useless on a test piece. After weeks of exposure it was still soft in the centre.

Although this Osmo is applied quite thinly and buffed off, so might prove better at curing outdoors.

 

[smorgasbord]

If it's anything like the standard UV epoxy resin I used, sunlight curing was next to useless on a test piece. After weeks of exposure it was still soft in the centre.

Interesting, I saw a video some months back about someone using an LED finish for a floor, and quickly found out that he had to cover the windows since it was curing up way too quickly.

 

[SitkaZach]

Very interesting! My understanding is that if the UV oil isn't getting 293 nanometers frequency UV light, and a fair bit of it, that curing won't happen.

But what the heck—I'll sure try an outside test! I'm hoping sun doesn't do much. As you said @MacBoy, our sun is pretty weak, especially this time of year.

My understanding is that the Polyx is ready for traffic at room temperature after 24 hours, and full cure is 14 days. The Osmo 2K two part system is about half of both of those, with full cure at 6 days. But drop the temperature much, and cure times stretch way longer. That's a big part of my excitement about the UV oil—I don't need to heat my shop for a full two weeks. And also hoping the lingering curing smell is hopefully much reduced. Polyx is pretty good on smell, but some of my customers are sensitive to any smells, especially on countertops in kitchens.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Interesting, I saw a video some months back about someone using an LED finish for a floor, and quickly found out that he had to cover the windows since it was curing up way too quickly.

It's quite possible the one I was using is rubbish, although it's a reputable brand and reviews seemed good. I thought at first it was my inadequate UV lights, so I tried 2 different torches with LED clusters, before getting a large fairly high power panel array which seemed to do the job okay then. Still took some time, and if it was more than a few mm thick, forget it. As a test, I put some on top of previously cured normal epoxy resin and with little effort was able to lift it straight off, no bonding at all really. I found the whole exercise very disappointing.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Very interesting! My understanding is that if the UV oil isn't getting 293 nanometers frequency UV light, and a fair bit of it, that curing won't happen.

But what the heck—I'll sure try an outside test! I'm hoping sun doesn't do much. As you said @MacBoy, our sun is pretty weak, especially this time of year.

My understanding is that the Polyx is ready for traffic at room temperature after 24 hours, and full cure is 14 days. The Osmo 2K two part system is about half of both of those, with full cure at 6 days. But drop the temperature much, and cure times stretch way longer. That's a big part of my excitement about the UV oil—I don't need to heat my shop for a full two weeks. And also hoping the lingering curing smell is hopefully much reduced. Polyx is pretty good on smell, but some of my customers are sensitive to any smells, especially on countertops in kitchens.

Should be 395nm for most UV solutions, the torches you see commonly available online are usually from 365-405nm, with the bulk of the power emitted at the wrong part of the spectrum I suspect. If I get into UV finishes which seems likely, investing in a good UV light is pretty essential.

Also, this prior post from Kevin regarding the change in formula for Osmo 420 UV might be of interest:

Thread 'WARNING about Osmo 420 UV protection oil'

Nov 25, 2022

I recently posted this as a reply comment to a topic in 'Member Projects' - but I decided that it was important enough to start a new topic, since you won't have seen my post unless you were looking at that particular topic.

So ........

A serious word of warning to anyone who is maybe planning to protect exterior hardwood work with Osmo 420 UV protection oil. The formulation was changed awhile ago, apparently to meet a new set of European solvent and environmental regulations. They didn't make any kind of announcement about this - they just did it. The net result is...

• woodbutcherbower
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Finishing and Painting

• 

 

[timwors]

I figured to start a discussion on Osmo LED Smart Oil, the new almost-instant cure oil that can take the place of Osmo Polyx and Top Oil for interior finish. Unfortunately it's for professional use only due to safety regulations, but anyone with a business license can buy it.

The great benefit is that the oil has a long open time, and cures instantly after a couple passes of an expensive UV lamp—which means two coats and out the door in the same day.

The finish doesn't require an Osmo branded UV LED lamp, but if you want to go that direction, the light retails for about $1900. The oil is a little more expensive than standard Polyx, but not much.

If anyone has experience, I'd love to hear. The UV lamps are currently sold out in the US, but I'll be getting mine within the next few weeks, and will post my experiences once I've finished a few things.

 

[timwors]

I'm curious about the UV light being used. Presumably it is very powerful? (It must be, to justify the high cost of the UV lamp?)
Does this mean it poses a risk of skin damage if not used correctly? Or eye damage?

Maybe I'm worrying to much, but having had various sun-related skin damage myself I would be very cautious!

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm curious about the UV light being used. Presumably it is very powerful? (It must be, to justify the high cost of the UV lamp?)
Does this mean it poses a risk of skin damage if not used correctly? Or eye damage?

Maybe I'm worrying to much, but having had various sun-related skin damage myself I would be very cautious!

Fair question but no need to worry, 395nm falls in the UVA category which is the least harmful as it doesn't penetrate like UVB, but i have heard prolonged direct exposure can lead to some skin ageing effects. Staring into the LED's of course or deliberately waving it over yourself would be a silly thing to do, but in normal use without staring at the LED"s it's perfectly safe.

Most UV curing finishes will be either 365nm which emits a more blueish/white light, or 395nm which emits a fairly strong purple light. Technically 365nm is a better wavelength for professional/deep curing, but is more expensive to produce. Hence why 395nm is so popular and usually cheaper. The amount charged for some of the 395nm light arrays on the market feels like a bit of a rip-off to me though.

At the same time I'm a bit dubious on the actual specific wavelength of some of the cheaper light arrays around, so if you want to be sure, you're kind of stuck buying a known accurate unit.

 

[hdv]

UVBeast sells some torches that emit in the right spectrum for this type of application. I think they are quite good and powerful enough to do this. I use them (I collect minerals), but have not tried them for curing a finish (yet).

If I am not mistaken Suman uses them in his video about UV finishes. See

 

[peter halle]

I had seen information on the OSMO LED curable oil (Not to be confused with the OSMA UV Protection Oil) and was interested in trying it until the cost for a large UV lamp came into play. I have some UV Curable resin and a small uv flashlight to cure it, and my first, and only experiment with it was eh. It is interesting how the technology is used, having experienced it many times sitting in a dentist chair. I could see it as being revolutionary for the floor finishing industry, where floors could be refinished and cured quickly - enabling normal life to return rapidly. I would love to see how room size floors are done and dried with UV lamps.

Peter

 

[luvmytoolz]

@peter halle I'm really keen to try it as my first exposure similarly was pretty abysmal. We have several offerings over here, the Vesters, Osmo, and Clean Armor. I'm always trying to find that perfect finish for the boards I make, so the ones like Osmo that are a hard wax, oil, and UV curable resin mixture are pretty compelling. I see a lot of people doing resin flood coats as a final finish, and I did try that but was just disgusted by it, nice shine but just not practical and doesn't add to the overall aesthetic.

But a finish you can rub in and buff, then cure, and sand and re-coat again sounds really great. This video by Dusty shows just how fast the finish cures, note though that the light he's using is a 500W unit that over here is around $4k:

 

[SitkaZach]

Should be 395nm for most UV solutions, the torches you see commonly available online are usually from 365-405nm, with the bulk of the power emitted at the wrong part of the spectrum I suspect. If I get into UV finishes which seems likely, investing in a good UV light is pretty essential.

Also, this prior post from Kevin regarding the change in formula for Osmo 420 UV might be of interest:

Thread 'WARNING about Osmo 420 UV protection oil'

Nov 25, 2022

I recently posted this as a reply comment to a topic in 'Member Projects' - but I decided that it was important enough to start a new topic, since you won't have seen my post unless you were looking at that particular topic.

So ........

A serious word of warning to anyone who is maybe planning to protect exterior hardwood work with Osmo 420 UV protection oil. The formulation was changed awhile ago, apparently to meet a new set of European solvent and environmental regulations. They didn't make any kind of announcement about this - they just did it. The net result is...

• woodbutcherbower
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Finishing and Painting

• 

Thanks! You are quite right. It's 395nm.

Thanks too for the Osmo 420 UV Oil quote. That's a different oil, and somewhat confusing...the 420 is UV resistant (like from the sun) but not a UV curing oil.

 

[SitkaZach]

@peter halle I'm really keen to try it as my first exposure similarly was pretty abysmal. We have several offerings over here, the Vesters, Osmo, and Clean Armor. I'm always trying to find that perfect finish for the boards I make, so the ones like Osmo that are a hard wax, oil, and UV curable resin mixture are pretty compelling. I see a lot of people doing resin flood coats as a final finish, and I did try that but was just disgusted by it, nice shine but just not practical and doesn't add to the overall aesthetic.

But a finish you can rub in and buff, then cure, and sand and re-coat again sounds really great. This video by Dusty shows just how fast the finish cures, note though that the light he's using is a 500W unit that over here is around $4k:

I hear you loud and clear about looking for the perfect finish! I love the Polyx. Have you tried? So amazing to reapply even years later with zero sanding, just a good clean. And spot repairs are also a dream.

I'm with you on the resin coats...not for me.

The UV curing for me is especially enticing because I have heating issues on many of my projects, being in Alaska and all. Guessing in Oz you have heat under control, but probably other challenges.

Are you sure the UV curing unit is a full $4K for you? Dusty said in an Instagram comment on that same video that that the lamp was around 1K in Canada which seems wildly low...it's pushing 2K here in the US, but that might be from crazy tarrifs. Everything imported to the US is nutty expensive now. All Osmo products took a huge jump in the last year.

Have you checked with your Osmo dealer/rep for a price?

 

[peter halle]

The video by Dusty is interesting, but it was interesting to see him work from the bottom up. Guess he's either very trusting or hastened spent much time in his life doing finishes. I actually just called OSMO and ordered some. While talking I mentioned that I had talked to a very nice rep at my local Woodcraft and it turned out to be the same guy. I only plan on trying out on small projects with my small light - it will be interesting. They are not making this available to the general public due to the application requirements.

Peter