Oversized 4' x 8' MFT table, starting my woodworking journey

[HighlandMarine]

But, the DASH-BOARD workbench is even better and is what I'd buy if I didn't already have 3 MFT's

The dashboard PWS system is incredible. One of my favorite woodworking purchases ever(paid full price including platinum accessories bundle) and if something happened to it, I’d order another immediately. Also gives you the ability to make repeatable thin rips with a track saw.

 

[Packard]

Back in the early 1970s, I sold S.I.P.s (structural insulated panels) and I had to go to the first project’s jobsite to supervise the installation. 

It was extremely common to see the general contractor show up in a pick up truck with a Contractors’ table saw strapped into the bed.  It took two men to set it on the ground.  No chop saw.  Either they used the fancy Stanley hand operated miter saw, or the miter gage on the table saw.

The track saw and the miter saw pretty much ended that practice except in the case of a crew building a new house (or a new development of homes).

The track saw was an alien concept well into (I am guessing) the 1990s or early 2000s.

DeWalt, I believe was the first to make a compact table saw that could rival the Contractor saws of the time.

If I had the room, I would still opt for a table saw first.  Everything I can do on the track saw, I can do on the table saw. 

If you are going to start with the track saw, you need a plan. 

What are you going to be producing?  What construction techniques will be required?  Will you be working alone?  Or with a helper?  How much space do you have available?  Will you have to carry sheet goods down stairs to the work shop?

Once you have answered the questions (I’m sure I have missed some), you can devise an approach to equipping your shop.

I see You Tubers building kitchen cabinets with a circular saw and nails, or a circular saw and pocket hole screws.  (It is difficult to pass judgement on the results based on the videos.)

As an experiment, I build a larger than normal medicine cabinet entirely with butt-joints and glue and nail construction.  Once painted and mounted on the wall it was indistinguishable from the similar items made with better joinery.  If you are a member of FOG you will not likely go the butt joint + glue + nail route. 

Settle on your approach to woodworking and then design your shop around that.

 

[woodferret]

If you are a member of FOG you will not likely go the butt joint + glue + nail route. 

No, we use staples.  What do you think we are?  Barbarians?  /s

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I don't know how I missed this one?
I have had a 4' x 8' MFT style table for nearly a decade. It is actually longer than that now, but no holes in the addition. It's nearly 10 feet long at this point, but I do not cut on it. Mine is strictly for assembly, squaring and work-holding.
I have a second 4' x 8' table for cutting, but it doesn't have all of the holes, just the ones necessary for crosscuts. It's not really sacrificial either. It has on removable section, under the cut line. I have a sacrificial top that I remove most of the time.
There are really only a couple of disadvantages to working on a full-sized MFT all the time. (the whole 4' x 8' thing is another issue entirely) First is that you have to be aware of small parts/hardware. They will fall through the holes. Second, and probably more important, watch your fingers! Sliding larger parts, like cabinet sides, creates a guillotine situation. It will bite you  [blink]
I use clamps, dogs, and clamping elements of some sort, every day.

How [member=60792]bwehman[/member] dealt with a 4' x 8' table, of any kind, in a one car garage, I don't know. Though, I guess that depends on dimensions. Mine is only 12' wide and will have cabinets on both sides, so that's not going to work for me. I'm thinking of cutting it back to the 36" range.

 

[bwehman]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] TBH I don't know how I would've been able to do anything without it. It provided storage for all my systainers underneath, raised the work surface up to a comfortable height, and provided all the outfeed support I could ever need. What else would I use the equivalent empty floor space for?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] TBH I don't know how I would've been able to do anything without it. It provided storage for all my systainers underneath, raised the work surface up to a comfortable height, and provided all the outfeed support I could ever need. What else would I use the equivalent empty floor space for?

I looked at the pictures a little closer and now I see it. You don't have cabinets, on at least one of the long walls.
I'm still trying to work it out, in my home shop. I am very used to a long run of cabinets right behind me, as I stand at the assembly table, and will likely have more on the other side, as a miter saw station.
I have 24' of length and neither row of cabinets will be that long, so they may just have to be offset.
I would like to keep it at 4' x 8' if I can.

 

[BigDan]

This is what's set up in the garage right now. It's used as a general assembly table and I also rip & cross cut sheet goods on it. When not needed it breaks down into small pieces.

If I needed dog holes, I'd just make a 3 piece MFT style top. If I used shorter 80/20 rails, I'd have a 64" x 48" table.

A pair of Fulton Stablemate metal saw horses.
Some 80/20 rails to span between the horses.
3 each 2" thick pieces of foam cut to 32" x 48".

[attachimg=1]

Cheese, that has to be the most engineered solution for breaking down ply I have seen and one I can appreciate.  The Dominos in foam board is a new approach to me.  I can see the value in keeping the parts aligned.  All in all nice execution!

Thanks
D

 

[georgeaye]

Quick update on my journey: I returned the MFT3 kit and the other tools to the dealer thankfully just before my 30 day window. I'm trying to take a slightly more measured approach and slow down.

I've ordered the Parf Kit MkII and going to build my own MFT, sit it on two sawhorses, and use a whole lot of Benchdogs.co.uk to help me keep things square.

Considering the many thoughtful comments at the beginning of this thread about the ergonomics and unwieldiness of the original table idea, I've rethought the size. It's still plenty long (2304mm/90"), but the distance that I have to lean over isn't as deep as I had planned, and it is now 960mm/37"). It's basically two regular MFTs side by side, keeping them landscape orientation. I've attached a screenshot and here it is online:https://imgur.com/NbABcv3. I drew a 1080 rail in the general cutting positon as visual reference for scale.

Hopefully, I'll start to cut the MFT next week!

 

[Michael Kellough]

Size sounds right, about the same as the Big Dash-Board workbench.

 

[georgeaye]

Size sounds right, about the same as the Big Dash-Board workbench.

Right! I see that. That dashboard looks amazing, super solid too! Dimensionally it's skinnier, but who knows, maybe I end up cutting mine down and end up at the same dimensions.

 

[WestMan_Canada]

Have you considered avoiding the MFT altogether and using a rail square (or two rail squares) instead?
That way you can put the workpiece on standard saw horses (proabbly need four of them)https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/rail-square/products/mk3-rail-square-ultra.

With the rail sqaures, you could use a cutting platform like this one from Lee Valley instead of the saw horses ....https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...wEHb3FVxeq_6OG5mbqMPhI9X2uDrJzEK&item=05H4105

 

[rmwarren]

[member=82090]georgeaye[/member] couple of random thoughts from having sacrificed way too many brain cells fiddling with MFT stuff. You really don't need a 4 by 8 table to process full sheets, the Dashboard approach is a good one where just over half a sheet is fully supported and the remainder sits on outriggers. This allows you to rip a full sheet yet not have to stretch across a 4' table when you are working with smaller parts.

You might find a few nuggets in my ramblings and blathering on about a modular MFT system. It's overcomplicated but the basic idea is to use a combo of small MFT tops and extrusions + outriggers that can be set up for whatever the project requires.

The Parf jig is the centerpiece of whatever setup you end up with. Pay attention to Peter's how to videos and you can avoid having the holes end up a few thousandths off. Ask me how I know...

Have fun.

RMW

 

[raylaray]

For day to day use, I find it more enjoyable to work on a table that I can reach the other side for cross cuts and have a table that doesn't dominate my workshop space completely. I have a slightly larger-than-mft bench at about 29" x 59" (give or take half a 5x5 sheet of BB ply). For times when I need a large offcut hanging past the end of the bench, or have a larger piece, I add some home built extensions to support where I need it. The bench has consistently spaced dog holes around the perimeter of the bench, and I have various bits that take advantage of that - similar to the Bench Dogs outriggers but more budget. Everything is fastened with some 3d printed 20mm bench dog sized spacers to hold 5/16 bolts at the center of the dog hole, and a couple of fender washers to hold tight to the bench sides.

 

[woodferret]

+1 for outriggers.  They get in the way of clamps less than full sheet sized tops.

 

[tsmi243]

This looks cool.  More pics of your bench?

 

[raylaray]

This looks cool.  More pics of your bench?

sure... I'll post something in a new thread though to keep this conversation focused (update: posted some more pics inhttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/.../torsion-mft-build-kinda/msg720584/#msg720584 )

 

[georgeaye]

[member=82090]georgeaye[/member] couple of random thoughts from having sacrificed way too many brain cells fiddling with MFT stuff. You really don't need a 4 by 8 table to process full sheets, the Dashboard approach is a good one where just over half a sheet is fully supported and the remainder sits on outriggers. This allows you to rip a full sheet yet not have to stretch across a 4' table when you are working with smaller parts.

You might find a few nuggets in my ramblings and blathering on about a modular MFT system. It's overcomplicated but the basic idea is to use a combo of small MFT tops and extrusions + outriggers that can be set up for whatever the project requires.

The Parf jig is the centerpiece of whatever setup you end up with. Pay attention to Peter's how to videos and you can avoid having the holes end up a few thousandths off. Ask me how I know...

Have fun.

RMW

Thanks! I am planning on a slightly smaller than full sheet worktop for sure.

 

[georgeaye]

I'm happy to report that the Parf System Guide Mk II came in and I've been merrily drilling a grid of 3mm holes across this huge 4' x 8'. As per the instruction guide, I'm not planning on drilling out 20 mm everywhere. For now, the minimum I've done is just an outer perimeter, but I want to wait and get some use out of this massive area before deciding how much smaller to cut it down.

Some observations:

• The Parf Guide System is a beautifully well-thought-out piece of kit. My son and I have worked together on it, which is a testament to its ease of use and the learning opportunity it provided.
  
• Moving a full-size 4' 8' is a huge PITA—whoever called it earlier in the thread was not kidding. I can't wait to cut this sucker down.
• Seeing this worktable come into being by my own hands is truly a satisfying experience.