Parallel fence / best practices with MFT3?

[geary126]

Hi there.

I'm new to Festooland, but very enthusiastic.    There's a bit of a, I don't know what I don't know issue.   

I've seen all the references to homemade parallel guides, and they seem great.

But is this strictly for folks who have the saw and a guide, rather than an MFT3?

The issue I'm trying to solve is the repeated, uniform cut.  Or the repeated, uniform dado with a router on the guiderail.

I purchased some Quas dogs and rail dogs, which are slick, because I have more confidence in them than I do in the fence on the MFT3, which seems subject to getting banged out of alignment.

Does everyone just use the fence with that little flag stop for this purpose?

In my dreams, I think I am looking for a set of rail dogs that secure an adjustable fence (that moves laterally with one knob, yet stays parallel)  so that I can run the work piece against it securely, and easily adjust the fence.    [Note:  this fence would be parallel to the guide, not perpendicular.]

Again, ability to adjust easily would be key.  So it's like a table saw.

Appreciate the thoughts.

Tom

 

[Qwas]

You're not going to find a fence like a table saw fence because it would need to ride on the aluminum side extrusions and there is no guarantee the aluminum extrusions are squared to the table top. On my older MFT-1080 I had to remove the extrusions and cut about 1/4" off of some of them to get it to fit tightly around the top and making it more square to the top.

I made a small parallelogram fence to accomplish what you're looking for. The dogs can move to different holes to get close to the length wanted, then the fence can swing for the exact distance. The knobs tighten the fence so it doesn't get knocked out of place. If you're interested, I can make something like this for you.

[attachimg=#]

 

[panelchat]

my 2 cents-
i have been placing one qwas dog at the rear left and right of the fence.
i loosen up the fence, then slide it up to firm registration/contact with the two dogs, then fix the miter gage in place.
i leave the dogs there semi permanently, and leave the left outrigger clamp thingy in a drawer somewhere.
it a quick, lazy way to have the fence registered to the 90 deg. hole grid, which is a very precise hole pattern good for reference.
if bumped from the front, it has nowhere to go, if bumped from the rear, it can be fixed in 10 seconds.

sometimes the guide rail needs some wiggling around/tinkering to get it really super square to the fence.
(this is annoying, i think that "Parf Dogs" would helps solve this...)

i think the principle taught in the training courses is to look at using parallel guides to do rip cuts on sheet goods, then use the mft to do cross cuts.
it is the cross cut that establishes 90 degrees on your workpiece, as the rip cuts are NOT really made using the factory edge as a reference.
this is where the guide rail approach is very different from using a table saw, where many of us spent years using the factory edge as the primary reference to begin all cut work.
so, now i visualize establishing square throughout the track saw workflow by using the cross cut.

hope this helps...

 

[panelchat]

Qwas- great tool, I was trying to sort out something like that myself but did not reach any conclusion...
I hope you can develop it into a product for sale, I could use that!

 

[Qwas]

I was looking into producing a couple of years ago but there was no interest. I can make a few and have them available for sale but it will have to wait a couple of months until I get the Speed Dogs back into production.

 

[geary126]

Quas:  super great.  Funny, I was kicking around something like that.

Just a thought:  would be good to arrange something so that the knob were offset of the fence.

Maybe an L bracket? 

Let me give it some thought.

In general, however, what do people use the Parallel guides for?  Sheet goods away from the MFT?

Thanks everyone!   

 

[Qwas]

Are you worried about the knobs extending past the fence? I don't think I would try to offset the knobs, a better answer is a bigger, stronger fence. Also the knobs will always tighten in the same spot so there are other ways to make sure it won't interfere with operations.

When you are interested you can personal message me or email me. You can click the icons on the left, below my avatar picture.

[attachimg=#]

I don't have the parallel guides so I can only repeat what others have said but yes, they are primarily for use off of the MFT such as cutting down a full sheet of plywood.

I meant to say this in the last post but better late than never.   [welcome] Welcome to Festool and the FOG. There's lots of good information here and plenty of highly talented people to ask questions to. Feel free to ask away.  [smile]

 

[panelchat]

a typical cabinet making example would be using the pll guides to make 8' rip cuts on panels.
then take those long pieces and cross cut them to length on the mft.
with accurate parallel cuts followed by accurate 90 degree cuts, you've got a sized workpiece that is square.
the long cuts can be done on a spoil board, sawhorse, or any other support that lets you drop the blade a bit past the under surface of the wood.
lots of examples of this in pics, videos around here (can't remember off hand where they are but poke around some and you'll see a bunch!)

 

[Tinker]

I might be missing something here, but how is it possible to keep that fence from swinging?
The knobs would need to be super tight as well as the bolts at other end from the knobs.

In the pic, both bars are moving in the same direction.
I wood think the bar at the top should stay as it is.
The one at bottom should head in opposite direction creating triangulation.
That way something else besides the bars have to move for the fence to move
Assuming the knobs are all tight.
Tinker

 

[Qwas]

Believe it or not, it works like a champ and takes very little effort to tighten the knobs and make everything solid.  [smile]

I think what you may be missing is the bars are locked in place on the fence so the bars can only swivel and not slide up and down, and the knobs tighten the bars to the fence locking everything in place.

The triangulation wouldn't allow you to have an adjustable distance. 

Maybe a short video would help.  [smile]

 

[Qwas]

Here is a very short video showing the fence in action. It took more effort to lock it in place than I remember but it still locks in place.

 

[Tinker]

Thanks Quas.
I was not realizing the fence was to move for different setup.
Now my mind has stopped fogging, i can see how your fence works.
when you tighten the knobs, is there any movement as you tighten?
Does it make a difference which knob is tightened in sequence?
Tinker

 

[Qwas]

No, no movement and it makes no difference which order the knobs are tightened.  [smile]

 

[geary126]

Thanks for the information, everyone!  You know, it's funny.  I'm 48 and have been coming up with creative ideas for 25 years, professionally.  But I can't get my brain wrapped around this kind of practical, engineering-driven creativity.  Leakyroof was kind enough to suggest the halfinchshy video.  Of course a stop block would do the trick, also!

And Quas...of course a wider fence would work.  Duh. 

Such a noobie.  Sigh. 

 

[Tinker]

to geary126
Many an idea has come down the pike that has been so simple, one wonders "Why didn't I think of that."
Of course it never happens with me.  Oh no.  :
It's always the other guy. [big grin]
Tinker

 

[bonesbr549]

If you have the MFT3 and the stops its easy.  I do it all the time.  I use the flip stops to get uniform position as an index point.  I use my router and the guide rail adapter. 

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/492601/Guide-Rail-Adapter-for-OF-1400-Router/?gclid=CISxsYGDorYCFYje4AodGTQAHA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=492601&ef_id=UIlkrgAARSWLURSt:20130329132417:s

Now the only thing I did not like with the setup was that even as good as rail is, I could get a little tiny bit of lateral play in that adapter.  So to fix that, I took a second rail I have and one of the guide pieces from the adapter and put it on the second rail parallel to the mft3 rail.  I can then basically have the router setting riding between two rails supported by the adapter on both sides, so the cut stays true vertically and horizontally.  So I place the piece on the mft3 with the flip stop as my index point and then lay the mft3 rail down put the second (free floating) rail down and put the of1400 and adapter on and slide it from front to back of the mft3 table.  This will align the two rails parallel.  Then use the adapter fine tune to get router bit aligned on where to cut(you only need to do it once) then turn on the router plunge and slide it through.  Lift the router off, remove the second rail, and lift the mft3 rail.  Put the second piece on repeat, and they will be parallel to one another.  I make wine cabinets with glass panels in them and I don't cut the dado's till side asemblies are complete and this makes them perfect and the cuts are repeatable.   

Now if the board or whatever your cutting the dado in is longer than the rail on the mft3 and you can't use the flip stops, I have a different method.  I build some pieces where the length is so long that mft3 is not an option.  Lets use a book case as an example where you want two sides 6" tall to have 4 dado's parallel to each other.    I simply take a piece of mdf  the same sized and attach a cleat to the bottom of it so i can slide it right up to the bottom of the side board snug to use as an index point.  I then cut it to length so that the end of it, is where the first dado is flush to the line.  I then use a top bearing flush bit to cut the dado riding to the edge of my template.  Repeat on the opposite side piece.  Those two are now parallel.    Now cut the template down to the next shorter dado from the top down and repeat.  As you cut your template down by what ever dimension you want, they will remain perfectlly parallel as you use the same template to cut each one since you have the same reference point.    Now the template is only good for one pass but mdf is pretty cheap.  I use templates for pattern cutting all the time make things repeatable.    If you have any questions on the first part of my response, shoot me a PM and we can chat more.  I could set it up to do a pic this week-end if it would help.  Good luck!

 

[geary126]

Pic would help a ton.  Thanks!

 

[sancho57]

a typical cabinet making example would be using the pll guides to make 8' rip cuts on panels.
then take those long pieces and cross cut them to length on the mft.
with accurate parallel cuts followed by accurate 90 degree cuts, you've got a sized workpiece that is square.
the long cuts can be done on a spoil board, sawhorse, or any other support that lets you drop the blade a bit past the under surface of the wood.
lots of examples of this in pics, videos around here (can't remember off hand where they are but poke around some and you'll see a bunch!)

For the OP:

The only tid bit I would add to panel chats advice , Im sure he does it but needs to be mentioned as the OP stated he was new at festools.

When you take you first cut off the factory edge, Use that edge to index the PGs for makeing the rest of the rips.

I know it sounds remedial, But you guys dont know how brain dead I get sometimes and it took a while to get that.