Parallel guides and Incra

[dpeagles]

Well, I have had enough of the aggravation of the festool parallel guides.  Once you get them set they work great, but the scale just isn't accurate enough in my opinion.

So I am thinking about getting the Rip Dog complete set and Incra T tracks.  For those that have these, how accurate can you get with the scale system?  I plan on using metric.  Basically with the festool guides I would have to mess around for 10 minutes measuring each end of the 3000 track to ensure I didn't have a slight difference from one end to the other.  I just don't trust the scale pointers on the festool guides.  They aren't accurate enough in my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

[JBag09]

I have the Rip Dog set with the Incra T tracks. Now I use imperial scales, I can get just under 1/64" from one end to the other. The main thing is how close you get your scales set on the T tracks and getting them consistent from one side to the other. And then it's how close your eyesight can match them up also. I am very happy with them.

 

[grbmds]

I have not used them a lot, but have found them useful. They have limited usefulness when ripping wood less than 3/4" as the tracks prevent the Festool Guide Rail from sitting directly on the piece being ripped; at least when the wood becomes narrower than the guide rail.

The other comment was accurate in that getting a rip that is exactly the same width from one end to the other is, to some degree, dependent on how well you can set the scales on the Incra track. Rip Dog sells accessories that, I think, mount directly on the rail and allow the rail to be held in the MFT holes. I still think that, as the piece gets narrower than the guide rail, you would have difficult ripping for a piece that narrow.

Overall, I feel that I've been able to use them for several different tasks that I wouldn't otherwise have been able to easily do. So, I think they were worth the money. However, I don't think they will be an answer to all possible ripping tasks.

I have found that for narrower pieces that aren't excessively long, my bandsaw works well for ripping. I have a Rikon Deluxe 14" with a Carter MagFence. The fence can be placed anywhere on the bandsaw table and locked there with the magnets. So, I get very close to the desired width and joint the rest off in a couple of passes taking 1/32" off each pass. While it's possible that there might be a slight difference in width after jointing, this is negligible and not noticeable. We're talking about much less than would make a difference. So, when it comes to ripping shorter, narrow pieces, I tend to use the band saw. This is one of those tasks at which a table saw excels and if the Sawstop job site saw pans out as marketed, I may just spend the money. An accurate table saw which can be stored out of the way, would be a great addition for these isolated tasks like ripping narrow strips.

 

[dpeagles]

The narrow stock isn't really much interest to me.  I'll use it for long rips on full sheets of plywood mostly.  Small stock I'll just use the table saw.

I looked as close as possible at the stops on the rip dog setup to see how accurate I could be.  It does look a bit easier to line up from what I can tell in pictures.

 

[JBag09]

I agree with you on the narrow stock. I have only used them for full sheets and on some 1/4 sheets that I had to make repetitive cuts.

I have the 24" T tracks, what I had to do was purchase a 16"-32" incra rule,http://www.woodpeck.com/lexanscales.html
I forget if it was left or right scale, it's says in the set up instructions on Rip Dogs website. Just follow them as accurately as you can and you be good to go.

 

[mark60]

I haven't even paid attention to the scales on the Incra. I set mine with a Woodpecker rule and rule stop as posted on the forum and they're the same as close as I've tried to measure.

 

[dpeagles]

I hate that I spent so much on the festool guides when they don't live up to my expectations.  I tried modifying them but still not happy.  I have had them about 2 years.

 

[Benjamin]

Strange eh?had to adjust both of mine for about 20min but since then they've worked perfect for me?

 

[poppops workshop]

I highly recommend Jerry Work's User guise for the parallel guides.  Calibrate them first, it sticks and I never have any trouble.  I have used the guides on every thing for a long time.
Best of Luck
Pops
http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/parallel-guide-tutorial-by-jerry-work.pdf

 

[dpeagles]

Guys, calibration is not the problem.  If you move together the are aligned and measure with a tape from the kerf to the stop is set correctly.  It is the lame pointer/scale system I have a problem with.

The problem is:  Say you want to rip something 400mm wide.  So you lay the track down, go to your first scale and try to set it to 400.  Well the pointer is so ridiculous so it is a bit off. 

Then you walk to the other pointer and put it on 400mm.  Make a cut.

Then measure.  You find a mm difference because 400 mm looks different because of this ridiculous pointer.

You may say " hey, a millimeter?  That is nothing."  Well, that is too much slop for me, especially for the price.

So because I don't trust the pointer/viewing angle/accuracy, I am contantly re-measuring and re-adjusting.

 

[jools]

Superglue a needle into the v of the stop so the point is on the scale. Easier to see accurately and makes increments of a mm easier to set. I rip carcasses and thin strips with this method and it works fine. If you need more accuracy than less than .25 mm your using the wrong tool. To many variables in technique, rail, saw slop, bearing slop, blade flex etc etc
Regards
Jools

 

[coug]

Geez, I have almost pulled the trigger on the guides several times, then posts like this pop up. 

 

[Mikeyfondu]

When setting the guide,I lossen them on the guide rail. I slide them together so the stops are touching each other then set them together so they are the same width exactly. Then return them to the required width. It's a little more work but gives u more accurate set up

 

[dpeagles]

All very good points and ideas. 

For the money though, I think they should be a bit more user friendly.

 

[fshanno]

All very good points and ideas. 

For the money though, I think they should be a bit more user friendly.

I like to think of my Festool rip guides as magical. 

And there's a whole-nother approach to their use.

Since you're in the US I assume you'll want to rip off the metric tapes and lay down a nice American scale.  When you stick it on put it right on the edge so the tick on the stop will touch the tape.

With the American scale in place calibrate the rig as best you can.  Having calibrated it, don't ever worry about it again.  Not ever, not as long as you live.  It's not worth it cause it's going to get knocked out of calibration 12 nano seconds after you set it.

Now.  Set it up for your first cut.  But don't make the cut.  Slide the saw to the end and make a shallow plunge, just enough to get a kerf mark.  Now slide it to the other end and do the same.  Now measure from the reference edge to the kerf marks.  They will probably be a little off.  Just mark the difference on the arm.  You know, just write it with a pencil on the arm.  + 1/32 on the left or - 1/64 on the right, whatever it is.  Then reset the stops accounting for the cut or add amount on each end.  Bet you get a near perfect rip.  Then when resetting for a different rip width remember to include any cut or add. 

Having it written right on the arm will remind you.  Now there have been times when one side or the other was dead on.  I just put a check mark on that arm.

Remember to erase your cut/add annotation at the end of the cutting session.  Cause next time it WON'T BE THE SAME!  And that's the magical part!

 

[dpeagles]

All very good points and ideas. 

For the money though, I think they should be a bit more user friendly.

I like to think of my Festool rip guides as magical. 

And there's a whole-nother approach to their use.

Since you're in the US I assume you'll want to rip off the metric tapes and lay down a nice American scale.  When you stick it on put it right on the edge so the tick on the stop will touch the tape.

With the American scale in place calibrate the rig as best you can.  Having calibrated it, don't ever worry about it again.  Not ever, not as long as you live.  It's not worth it cause it's going to get knocked out of calibration 12 nano seconds after you set it.

Now.  Set it up for your first cut.  But don't make the cut.  Slide the saw to the end and make a shallow plunge, just enough to get a kerf mark.  Now slide it to the other end and do the same.  Now measure from the reference edge to the kerf marks.  They will probably be a little off.  Just mark the difference on the arm.  You know, just write it with a pencil on the arm.  + 1/32 on the left or - 1/64 on the right, whatever it is.  Then reset the stops accounting for the cut or add amount on each end.  Bet you get a near perfect rip.  Then when resetting for a different rip width remember to include any cut or add. 

Having it written right on the arm will remind you.  Now there have been times when one side or the other was dead on.  I just put a check mark on that arm.

Remember to erase your cut/add annotation at the end of the cutting session.  Cause next time it WON'T BE THE SAME!  And that's the magical part!

Nope, I prefer metric and I am American.  I think it is easier to be accurate with metric.  You just have to buy a metric ruler.

I will try your tip.

Thanks

 

[coug]

All very good points and ideas. 

For the money though, I think they should be a bit more user friendly.

I like to think of my Festool rip guides as magical. 

And there's a whole-nother approach to their use.

Since you're in the US I assume you'll want to rip off the metric tapes and lay down a nice American scale.  When you stick it on put it right on the edge so the tick on the stop will touch the tape.

With the American scale in place calibrate the rig as best you can.  Having calibrated it, don't ever worry about it again.  Not ever, not as long as you live.  It's not worth it cause it's going to get knocked out of calibration 12 nano seconds after you set it.

Now.  Set it up for your first cut.  But don't make the cut.  Slide the saw to the end and make a shallow plunge, just enough to get a kerf mark.  Now slide it to the other end and do the same.  Now measure from the reference edge to the kerf marks.  They will probably be a little off.  Just mark the difference on the arm.  You know, just write it with a pencil on the arm.  + 1/32 on the left or - 1/64 on the right, whatever it is.  Then reset the stops accounting for the cut or add amount on each end.  Bet you get a near perfect rip.  Then when resetting for a different rip width remember to include any cut or add. 

Having it written right on the arm will remind you.  Now there have been times when one side or the other was dead on.  I just put a check mark on that arm.

Remember to erase your cut/add annotation at the end of the cutting session.  Cause next time it WON'T BE THE SAME!  And that's the magical part!

Very good advice!  I sometimes wonder if I expect the impossible because it has festool on the side.  Very nice common sense advice.  I guess I will finally pull the trigger on these.

 

[grbmds]

All very good points and ideas. 

For the money though, I think they should be a bit more user friendly.

I like to think of my Festool rip guides as magical. 

And there's a whole-nother approach to their use.

Since you're in the US I assume you'll want to rip off the metric tapes and lay down a nice American scale.  When you stick it on put it right on the edge so the tick on the stop will touch the tape.

With the American scale in place calibrate the rig as best you can.  Having calibrated it, don't ever worry about it again.  Not ever, not as long as you live.  It's not worth it cause it's going to get knocked out of calibration 12 nano seconds after you set it.

Now.  Set it up for your first cut.  But don't make the cut.  Slide the saw to the end and make a shallow plunge, just enough to get a kerf mark.  Now slide it to the other end and do the same.  Now measure from the reference edge to the kerf marks.  They will probably be a little off.  Just mark the difference on the arm.  You know, just write it with a pencil on the arm.  + 1/32 on the left or - 1/64 on the right, whatever it is.  Then reset the stops accounting for the cut or add amount on each end.  Bet you get a near perfect rip.  Then when resetting for a different rip width remember to include any cut or add. 

Having it written right on the arm will remind you.  Now there have been times when one side or the other was dead on.  I just put a check mark on that arm.

Remember to erase your cut/add annotation at the end of the cutting session.  Cause next time it WON'T BE THE SAME!  And that's the magical part!

Nope, I prefer metric and I am American.  I think it is easier to be accurate with metric.  You just have to buy a metric ruler.

I will try your tip.

Thanks

From this description, the Guides don't sound magical. I think I agree that, based on the hype given the Parallel Guides, I'd expect them to be more accurate to start or at least easy to setup and then that would be it. Just set'em and use'em. Given that there is a need to set or calibrate each time you use them, I'd say there are less expensive ways to do the job. It would even seem that it would be just as quick to merely mark each cut on each end with a story stick set to the right width; certainly a lot cheaper.