Part 1: Routing/Milling 80/20 for Festool clamps using an MFS & a 1010

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] great tutorial. I need to cut some slots in my assembled sys/mft cart on the front face. Since I cannot enter the slot from the end and will need to plunge I'm thinking of using an 8mm or 1/4" bit that'll fit the 15 series slot.

1. Assume you are cutting full depth in one pass, just letting the mill side-cut & shave from the slots edge?

2. It's gonna be fun cutting in a horizontal orientation...

3. PS - grab a few of these and you can use your L-brackets in slots without the carriage bolt clearance:

Thanks Richard  [smile]

1. Full depth, one pass. Produces nice little shards. Make sure you don't climb cut.  [eek]  Climb cutting on a knee mill is one thing, climb cutting with a handheld router is another. CW direction. [member=25351]rst[/member]  has mentioned that he uses and likes a Whiteside aluminum bit. That may be in my future.

I'll give it a try. I've got a bazillion bits around having collected them for the Shapeoko I use too seldom. Thanks.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Richard I know you don’t want disassemble the cart but maybe pull the systainers and flop it over on the back or side. I am really uncomfortable with out of position free hand routing.  [eek]

Ron

Never considered that, thanks for the suggestion Ron. Good excuse to clear out sawdust.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Figured out a variation on [member=44099]Cheese[/member] idea on routing out the 1515 slot to get Festool clamps in using some AL cutoffs.

Clamped some 1/4" by 2" strips to the 1515 and a 1/2" by 1.5" chunk for an end stop:

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OF1400 with a 30mm copy ring and a 1/4" spiral carbide router bit at the slowest setting.

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As suggested I used some Denatured alcohol for lube, cut like butter.

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Using the 30mm copy ring gave me a total of 8mm in movement, 4mm each side of center. The 1/4" bit (6.35mm) took ~3mm off each side of the 8mm slot so it ended up ~14mm wide OAL, perfect for the clamps.

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20 minutes to gather everything up, 5 minutes to clamp each setup together and 60 seconds for the cuts.

I am loving having a dedicated metalwork table again, the weldtables.com tab/slot tops are brilliant! So easy to use and they handle most any setup you could need for cutting, grinding, drilling/tapping, and of course welding. It's an MFT for metal.

Thanks for the inspiration [member=44099]Cheese[/member]  [thumbs up]

RMW

 

[Cheese]

Figured out a variation on [member=44099]Cheese[/member] idea on routing out the 1515 slot to get Festool clamps in using some AL cutoffs.

Thanks for the shout-out [member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] I do appreciate your kind words.  [smile]  My whole reason for starting the aluminum milling thread was to encourage others to branch out and use other materials than wood. Wood, stainless, stone, aluminum, brass, plastics and even carbon fiber can have a positive impact on a wood working project. It doesn't have to be just wood. There seems to be some reluctance/trepidation for people to explore machining aluminum with wood working tools. That's a myth I want to dispell.

I've machined soapstone, slate and NY blue stone with wood working tools. You just gotta-wanna. [big grin]

On a better note...love your welding table. [thumbs up]

Because we only have a 1 car garage and it's stuffed with bicycles, motorcycles, a lawnmower, a snow blower, and Stihl lawn maintenance equipment, I had to put my welding gear in storage.  [crying]  [crying]

I really want to start welding again...FWIW...you may have pushed me over the top to revisit those areas that are so important for the creative process to continue to produce.

Nice photo's too by the way Richard, they make the process easier.

 

[rvieceli]

Hey [member=44099]Cheese[/member] might want to take a look around and see if any of the community colleges or high schools offer a adult ed welding class. Our community college has one that meets for 10 3 hour sessions once a week in the evening. Once they figure out you are not going to blow yourself up or set yourself on fire, they let us work on personal projects. There are a few of us that keep taking it again for the shop time.

Ron

 

[rmwarren]

Figured out a variation on [member=44099]Cheese[/member] idea on routing out the 1515 slot to get Festool clamps in using some AL cutoffs.

...love your welding table. [thumbs up]

Because we only have a 1 car garage and it's stuffed with bicycles, motorcycles, a lawnmower, a snow blower, and Stihl lawn maintenance equipment, I had to put my welding gear in storage.  [crying]  [crying]

I really want to start welding again...

Yea so the frames I was making yesterday are part of the 59th re-org of my massive (12' by 10') wood/metal shop caused by the careless addition of the metalworking table and welding gear. In a small workspace a random tool acquisition can snowball unbelievably easily into a situation where you (1) cannot move or (2) have every worksurface covered with stuff.

The welding gear leads to needing a stock of steel standing in 2 shop corners waiting for a rack to be built. To make room for the 24" by 48" table I had to remove 8 SF of cabinets with drawers and relo the fasteners into parts bins in cubbies hanging from the walls. With the cabinets gone there is nowhere for the drill press, disk sander or bandsaw to sit, let alone the 20V SCMS (love that machine) that is sitting on top of the tablesaw, or the 14" metal chop saw or the portaband.

The latest iteration will have a 27" deep worksurface mounted on the rear wall for all the bench tools & open underneath for the tablesaw cart, material storage and seldom used bench machines like the planer. These frames are the first step:

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To get there I broke down and did a blocking plan in SU:

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The plan is to have the new worksurface along the rear wall, the SYS/MFT cart and welding table on the front/side walls. Perhaps I will finally reach small-shop Nirvana, loosely defined as being able to use my tools/worksurfaces without first having to move something out of the way...

RMW

 

[rvieceli]

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] you need to breakdown and put up a dedicated metalworking shed.  [wink]

Ron

 

[rmwarren]

[member=8712]Richard/RMW[/member] you need to breakdown and put up a dedicated metalworking shed.  [wink]

Ron

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] you're a mind-reader.

Working thru some coverage issues, may need a variance to expand the shop and possibly build a canopy over the grills and some storage/countertops.

And an outdoor oven. Maybe [not worthy]

RMW

 

[Cheese]

Perhaps I will finally reach small-shop Nirvana, loosely defined as being able to use my tools/worksurfaces without first having to move something out of the way...

I hear you loud and clear Richard. Move items off the drill press to use it, move items off the metal chop saw to use it (and the metal chop doesn't have much real-estate in the first place  [tongue]), move items off the planer to use it. About the only tools that are safe from being used as available storage space are the 2 bench grinders.

Looking at your welding table made me think about how much some things have changed. The first welding classes I took were at the local Vo-Tech about 50+ years ago. Every welding table there was just a bunch of welded angle iron with supports that used fire brick as the welding surface. What a kluge job but that was the common solution back then.

 

[rvieceli]

Still have those tables at our school that’s where they do the oxy/acetylene welding 

 

[rmwarren]

Perhaps I will finally reach small-shop Nirvana, loosely defined as being able to use my tools/worksurfaces without first having to move something out of the way...

I hear you loud and clear Richard. Move items off the drill press to use it, move items off the metal chop saw to use it (and the metal chop doesn't have much real-estate in the first place  [tongue]), move items off the planer to use it. About the only tools that are safe from being used as available storage space are the 2 bench grinders.

Looking at your welding table made me think about how much some things have changed. The first welding classes I took were at the local Vo-Tech about 50+ years ago. Every welding table there was just a bunch of welded angle iron with supports that used fire brick as the welding surface. What a kluge job but that was the common solution back then.

You got it. In my case the bandsaw (10") is sitting on the Shapeoko3 CNC.

At the risk of totally sidetracking this thread... metal shop for me was first discovered in junior high 40+ ago. With the welding tables you described but oxy/acetylene only. We did have a couple of lathes and the same teacher taught drafting, I took every shop class I could get after that.

These new holey tables for welding seem to be recently DIY-practical, I guess due to lasers & CNC. The machined Strong Hand tables are too pricey (& heavy) for most of us DIY'ers.

In my 20's I started with a buzz box & then moved up to an old Millermatic 175 MIG and did side jobs making/selling trailers and ?? Abrasive chop saw and a 4" angle grinder I had until 20 years later SS Sandy claimed it along with the little 115V MIG I'd downgraded to following my move to the east coast. I'd been determined to replace it and last year grabbed a beautiful Miller 215 115/230 after a long internal debate over MIG/TIG ended with a practical pull the trigger and weld steel compromise. That little machine on 230V will lay down a killer bead on up to 1/4" material even though it rated for less. All this lead to the welding table and my spring-2019 shop-reorg predicament.

I just saw that Miller released a MIG/TIG AC/DC machine for around $3K & buyer's remorse set in. I'd really like to have TIG aluminum capability but that leads to multiple gasses and right back to "where the heck do I put this stuff?".

Ron's right, the only solution is more shop space.  [doh]

RMW

 

[Cheese]

Hey [member=44099]Cheese[/member] might want to take a look around and see if any of the community colleges or high schools offer a adult ed welding class. Our community college has one that meets for 10 3 hour sessions once a week in the evening. Once they figure out you are not going to blow yourself up or set yourself on fire, they let us work on personal projects. There are a few of us that keep taking it again for the shop time.

Ron

Ya I agree 100%...I did that for years when registering for "Machine Tool Process" at the local Vo-Tech.  Because our local Vo-Tech instructor and I both worked for 3M at the time, we became kindered spirits of sorts....and once I proved I wasn't going to destroy the shop and burn down the building I was left to do my own projects.  [smile]

An interesting footnote...I brought in 15" diameter American Racing wheels in magnesium and decided to turn the profile down because they were pitted. Everything was fine until I mentioned that they were magnesium, at which time the instructor went directly to the wall and pulled off a fire extinguisher and he stood in front of me as I turned down the profile on the wheels. Greg later stated that magnesium with the addition of a little water can start a fire that can't be easily extinguished.

I brought those magnesium chips home, started them on fire...what a show...lesson learned.

 

[nclemmons]

We have a facility in Chicago - Arc Academy - which is a maker space for welding and metal working.  They offer classes plus you can rent shop time for $20/hour.  Might see if there is a similar facility in your area.

Richard - I just bought the 215 miller as well.  Got the Mig and Tig package.  From what I've read on the AC/DC Mig & Tig they released, the jury might still be out on it.

neil

 

[rmwarren]

Richard - I just bought the 215 miller as well.  Got the Mig and Tig package.  From what I've read on the AC/DC Mig & Tig they released, the jury might still be out on it.

neil

And given the cost it's neutral if I just pick up a dedicated TIG machine. Probably will take the plunge later this summer after I get the current mess sorted out.

RMW

 

[08G8V8]

Forgive my ignorance, but is performing this slot widening procedure using a router table and moving the material up to a stop block on each side of the slot a bad idea?  Or is it best to have the material fixed and move the router along the material as done here?

I am a total novice, and have been buying tools to get into woodworking and in the process of designing my MFT style table based on Richard's cart.  The problem with building a work table or any project, is you sort of need a table to begin with!

Anyway, I do like the method that Richard shows that would allow me to perform this task without needing to have a MFS, but just wanted to ask the question about performing this task using a fixed base router in a table.  Thanks

 

[Cheese]

Forgive my ignorance, but is performing this slot widening procedure using a router table and moving the material up to a stop block on each side of the slot a bad idea?  Or is it best to have the material fixed and move the router along the material as done here?

I'd definitely clamp the aluminum down and move the router. That'd give you more control. It'd be pretty easy for the router bit to grab the aluminum extrusion and that would not be good.  [eek]

 

[08G8V8]

Forgive my ignorance, but is performing this slot widening procedure using a router table and moving the material up to a stop block on each side of the slot a bad idea?  Or is it best to have the material fixed and move the router along the material as done here?

I'd definitely clamp the aluminum down and move the router. That'd give you more control. It'd be pretty easy for the router bit to grab the aluminum extrusion and that would not be good.  [eek]

That’s what I was thinking, but having never done it I wasn’t sure. Thanks for the response, and this thread!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cheese]

Here's an update to this milling thread.

When I first milled out the slots in some 80/20, I used a carbide 4-flute end mill in the 1010 because that's all I had. I reasoned that the 4 flutes would reduce the amount of chip load on the cutter. What I didn't anticipate was that it also set up some very strong harmonics that would loosen the router collet nut within 3-4 minutes of use. This forced me to tighten the collet nut to a level that I thought may permanently damage/deform the collet itself.

So, for the 2nd go-around I decided to mill some slots in aluminum angle brackets that would be used with the MFS. I purchased a 2-flute router bit specifically designed to be used on aluminum. The harmonic problem pretty much disappeared however I only managed to mill 8 each 2" long slots before the cutting edges went away. This specialty aluminum bit was manufactured from HSS.  [sad]

I'm planning on milling some more aluminum so I decided to see if there was something better out there in the wild. I came across & purchased a 1-flute carbide router bit made specifically for aluminum. I haven't fired it up yet but I'll report back when I do.
https://www.toolstoday.com/solid-carbide-cnc-spiral-o-flute-aluminum-cutting-up-cut-router-bits.html

So here's the specifics from left to right.
1. SGS 4-flute spiral, solid carbide bit, 1/4" diameter #35506
2. Amana 2-flute spiral, HSS bit, 7/32" diameter #HSS1632
3. Amana 1-flute spiral, solid carbide bit (usually referred to as a "0" flute bit), 1/4" diameter #51480

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A close-up of the damaged cutting edges on the HSS bit.

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[Michael Kellough]

@ Cheese  What speed did you use?

Am I wrong in thinking that cutting the number of flutes in half is equivalent to cutting the speed in half? That should make a difference too?

 

[rmwarren]

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member] you've got it right. The issue with AL is galling, i.e. too much speed (heat) will melt the metal and clog to gullets.