Plunge Router Inaccuracy?

[smorgasbord]

While we may have it easier to find things on the EKat pages here in the US, you can't order directly from it, which seems like a giant missed opportunity to me.
You still need to find a dealer who is willing/able to order them.

The dumb thing that happens here is that we are restricted as to availability of many products.

From the Festool parts page:

All Festool tools should only be repaired at the Festool Service Center for quality and safety reasons. We recommend that you request your repair directly with us. Setup a repair service here.

In many cases, special tools are also needed to ensure proper repair. Please note that all guarantee and warranty claims shall be rendered void as soon as any unauthorized repair attempts are carried out. We explicitly advise you not to carry out your own repairs.

So, yeah, not letting get parts is their way or forcing you to go to Festool Service Centers.

 

[jeffinsgf]

While we may have it easier to find things on the EKat pages here in the US, you can't order directly from it, which seems like a giant missed opportunity to me.
You still need to find a dealer who is willing/able to order them.

The dumb thing that happens here is that we are restricted as to availability of many products.

I've called the number at the front of EKat and ordered parts many times. They don't have online ordering, but I'm pretty sure you can order any part if you call them.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

From the Festool parts page:

All Festool tools should only be repaired at the Festool Service Center for quality and safety reasons. We recommend that you request your repair directly with us. Setup a repair service here.

In many cases, special tools are also needed to ensure proper repair. Please note that all guarantee and warranty claims shall be rendered void as soon as any unauthorized repair attempts are carried out. We explicitly advise you not to carry out your own repairs.

So, yeah, not letting get parts is their way or forcing you to go to Festool Service Centers.

I can totally understand that, with some parts, but many are simple bolt-ons.
Besides, if you are willing to take the responsibility of working on it for yourself, it's not their problem.
Parts like hose garages, CT tubs, extractor fittings for OFs, etc.
Once the warranty is expired it may become prohibitively expensive to ship an entire unit back and forth, when a small part could fix it. (shipped one way)
Youcan buy the parts, it's just a question of figure it out, rather than simply click a live link.

I think that pretty much any dealer can order parts, but it doesn't mean they will, or you have to wait for their next stock order to go in. This may go better in bigger cities, but that doesn't apply to a lot of users.
One of my local dealers used to do repairs on-site (many brands) but they shut that down a few years ago.

 

[johnmpf]

Could this be caused by the bit getting hotter during a plunge cut vs the rest of the operation.  Just wondering.

 

[Blackerty]

Hi John.
Burning hasn't been an issue except for light marking under the plunge points. Two sided cutters of the usual type don't plunge all that well anyway - there's no cutting edge in the centre of the bottom. (much as in the case of a drill but larger) This probably explains this particular tendency - it's probably not down to the router.
The sides of the slot were fine except for the marks left when plunging by the cutter. i.e. it behaved better once the plunge was locked.

To some of the previous points.
The slop in the guide bush and the ability of the other post to move following compression of the guiding O ring in combination mean that on the Bosch described the cutter can both tilt and move laterally. Freedom to tilt a bit on the posts means vertical depth inaccuracies when the plunge stop is contacted too.

That tilting was occurring is evident from the shape of the marks in the side of the slot.
A test cut showed that the cutter (even on a light cut and with the plunge locked) was deflecting laterally too under cutting forces - enough to take it from one side of a 0.5mm pencil line to the other. This most probably is a result of the O ring that locates the plunge housing on the second post compressing.

Interesting to hear so many say that the Festool 2200 handles well - a lightly used example is up for sale locally. Two thoughts follow - (a) they don't seem to come with much by way of accessories (more cost) and (b) might it not be a bit tippy/unstable if trying to cut mortices or slots in fairly narrow stock?

 

[wmarazita]

Maybe this will help with your initial question.
I have a Festool 1400 and was just making mortises yesterday in white oak. The mortises were .5" wide, 3" long, and 1.5" deep. I was using a .5" upcut spiral bit and a "mortise master" to guide these mortises. I first plunged full depth (1.5") in the each of the ends of the mortise, then repeated side to side passes between the ends plunging and cutting about .25" deeper on each pass. I locked the router's depth during the final clean out pass. I used Festool dust collection for the operation. There was plenty of power and the 1400 didn't struggle at all during any of the cuts. Results: The initial deep, full-depth mortises each were slightly deeper (like your pictures) than the final clean out pass at full depth for the entire length of the mortise. The walls of the mortises were all perfectly smooth and perpendicular to the face. Personally, I thought the mortises were perfect. I did notice the first two end mortises were slightly deeper, but didn't give it a second thought since they would be completely hidden. I don't own a 2200, so I can't say whether or not this same thing would happen using that router.
Hopefully that helps!
p.s. I would have posted a couple pictures, but I already have floating tenons glued into those mortises.

Blackerty,
I did this exact same operation again today with the Festool 1400. I was able to grab some pictures today of the results. This mortise was in end grain of white oak. Hopefully this will help.

 

[Packard]

A basic axiom of machine design:  The more moving parts involved, the less accurate will be the machine. 

Every moving part has a tolerance.  If you have one moving part, with a tolerance of +/- 0.005”, you can expect a very small part to part deviation.

However, if there are 5 moving parts, each with +/- 0.005”, you can expect as much as 5 times the deviation. 

You can mitigate that total by working to reduced tolerances, but it will still be 5 times your best effort at precision.

My picture framing, 45 degree only, miter saw never goes out of adjustment.  The one piece angle block that I clamp against offers no adjustment and never moves before, during or after a cut.

My 12” DeWalt Chop saw could never aspire to that part to part repeatability. 

So, in my opinion, a plunge router is inherently less accurate than a fixed one, assuming they were both produced to the same build standard, that is, comparing a DeWalt to a DeWalt or a Festool to a Festool. 

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

And, to add to what Packard said, the human element plays a part in accuracy as well.

For mortise/tenon work, short of a full-on CNC machining center, you'd be hard-pressed to beat a horizontal mortiser or a Multi-Router. I have an FD-250 horizontal mortiser and I just love it, it's very stable and avoids a lot of the human error that can come into play when using a hand-held router.

 

[Packard]

As a parting shot, I have spent a good bit of time thinking back on any sloppy joinery I have made where I could squarely blame the slop on the quality of the machinery.

When my joinery looks crappy (happily, almost never), the blame falls squarely on me and not on my equipment. 

I would note that I am among the apparent minority who believe applying tool makers’ tolerances to wood working is a folly.  Tool makers mill and turn pieces from blocks of steel, aluminum or brass which are relatively stable compared to any wood we might come across.

Before I retired, I could access a fully equipped tool and die shop that was part of our operation.  I never did.  Indeed, when large assembly fixtures were required, I would sometimes cut the lumber to size and then take it to work for the toolmakers to complete. 

There are exceptions of course.  Picture framers typically produce frames from pre-finished moldings.  So no filler can be used to fix a sloppy miter.  And rough cuts would render a frame unsellable. 

But, by and large, wood workers work to a looser tolerance than our machines can produce. 

My well-adjusted table saw can make accurate and repeatable cuts, but the scale I use on the fence shows increments of 1/16”. 

I feel that repeatability is more important than accuracy.  I can set the stops on my miter saw and make 10 pieces in a row that are exactly the same length.  But if I come back later to make one more piece, the setup will be tedious and time consuming (if I need that kind of accuracy).

I don’t dwell on the accuracy of my equipment as much as I dwell on my workmanship.

 

[tdlinton]

I just purchased a 1400 and immediately encountered the same issue with depth. I was using a spiral up bit to plunge to a depth of about 7/8" in three passes and wanted to leave a little extra wood, i.e., cut a little shy of final depth for checking purposes so, when setting the depth stop, I laid a .5 mm thick ruler (as a shim) under the router bit (I had a sample area with correct depth that I was trying to replicate).

Lo and behold, when I routed, the depth came out exactly as I wanted rather than as I expected - the router was cutting deeper than expected by the thickness of my ruler. So it seems I have replicated the effect noted by Blackery and "fixed" by Allano in this thread.

Knowing this, I could set my depth stop "exactly" and then use the fine adjustment to back off .5 mm. Will this happen always for all bits? Don't know. Usually this small variation in depth would not be a problem in my work.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Most people have a tendency to bottom out a little harder on that initial plunge, especially if using a spiral bit. They have usually pull themselves in, because of that spiral. It acts like a somewhat like a drill bit.
Once that first plunge has cleared out some material, those forces are diminished, and that pulling doesn't happen as much.

 

[woodferret]

At least on my 1010, there's a spring on the turret that pushes it upward away from the cast aluminum base - to give it free play on rotating.  When plunging, it depresses downward to the cast by 0.15mm.  Yours may vary depending on the build tolerance and how tight that center screw is set.

There's also the pulldown CRG mentioned, which mostly explains the initial plunge depth excess most people see.  This is build issue is more of a general consistent thing.

You can alleviate the turret spring issue somewhat by awkwardly using your finger and pulling down the turret when you're setting depth.

 

[Cypren]

Just perusing this thread, since the OP mentioned template routing, I was surprised to see that nobody mentioned the issue with the 1400/2200 of slop in the snap-in guide bushings. I don't know if this has been corrected on the latest models (though I doubt it, since it's an inherent tradeoff of the design), but both my 1400 and 2200 have a small amount of play in the snap mechanism that allows them to drift ever so slightly when using template guide rings. For the vast majority of jobs, the play isn't enough to matter, but if you're doing inlay and similarly precise work, it can be a real problem.

They're still great routers in every other respect, but given that this whole topic started because of an extremely detail-oriented complaint, it seemed worth mentioning.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Just perusing this thread, since the OP mentioned template routing, I was surprised to see that nobody mentioned the issue with the 1400/2200 of slop in the snap-in guide bushings. I don't know if this has been corrected on the latest models (though I doubt it, since it's an inherent tradeoff of the design), but both my 1400 and 2200 have a small amount of play in the snap mechanism that allows them to drift ever so slightly when using template guide rings. For the vast majority of jobs, the play isn't enough to matter, but if you're doing inlay and similarly precise work, it can be a real problem.

They're still great routers in every other respect, but given that this whole topic started because of an extremely detail-oriented complaint, it seemed worth mentioning.

I had the same issue with my OF2200 and went back and forwards with Festool support before giving up. They went out of their way to be helpful and I didn't want to be a pita, but I think it's really poor the issue exists in the first place, it's not too much to expect a higher degree of tolerance on machined parts.

What I did to fix mine was lightly tap around the outside edge with a hammer, using just enough pressure to deform it by the barest , almost unmeasurable amount. Perfect fit now.

 

[tdlinton]

The problem with the Festool 1400 going slightly deeper than expected is, I think, due to the issue bobtskutter mentioned. When zeroing out the depth gauge, you need to push it down (there's a tab on the top for this) to ensure that the stop turret is fully bottomed out. The manual actually says this but not explicitly - a cursory reading wouldn't alert you to the necessity of doing this. If you just release the depth stop rod with its locking lever that won't get you to an accurate zero depth.

When I make sure to push on the top of the depth rod while zeroing it out I get a very accurate router depth. No shim needed when zeroing!