Porch Railings

[Mike_Chrest]

Wow, Thanks for all the nice comments guys. Even Eli was zingerless. ???  I have to take some more pictures so it will be a couple days before I post the finished railings installed.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Hi Tinker,
  My experience with pressure treated is the same as yours. When I used it for a finished surface it split and twisted. I do like to use it when it will be covered by another material. I replaced the posts in this project  in 2002 with 4x4's then covered them with MDO plywood and trim. The old post looked like Swiss cheese swarming with carpenter ants. I put those little round vents in at the top & bottom to get some ventilation in there as well.

[attachimg=#]

Mike

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Hi JJ,
  I got the nails here

http://www.raptornails.com/

They will try to convince you that you need a special gun $$$. I got the 15 gauge nails and they work fine in my Hitachi 16 gauge nailer (they need to be snug in the gun for support, not as stiff as metal nails). They do not fit in my DeWalt 16 gauge nailer (nails are too fat to fit in the magazine). The are about $15/ box so it was worth the risk to me to try them in the gun I had. These nails are the straight collation ,not angled.
If you find another gun they fit drop me a line or post it here.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Here's another thing you can add to your bag of tricks. I needed to join the 8' lengths of Azek into longer lengths. How do you clamp this stuff lengthwise?

One option is pocket screws and glue. Brice talked about this in the Azek thread
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=4138.0
You have to hold the faces in alignment when you drive the screws or they slip vertically.

Another way is blind holes ,handscrews, and these adaptors

http://www.adjustableclamp.com/handcat3.htm

If you look at reply #8 above the cutout shape on the right are two blind holes that straddle the seam. The holes on the bottom of the part were cut away. These holes will be covered by the next layer during final assembly.

 

[dirtydeeds]

please give this man.................... big congratulations

for his cahones

the work is highly detatailed

id love to be given this work as a job

i cannot translate it into american but it looks like high quality barge board work

WOW

 

[Mike_Chrest]

OK. More problems. How do you glue this mess together once you have it all milled up?

First railing I tried Azek glue, a whole lot of clamps,and the Raptor nails. Results were fair. Had a few gaps between the laminations (a dab of caulk & a swipe of paint : makes a carpenter appear what he ain't). But needed a better solution.

We had a thread about vacuum clamping on the FOG and Nickao and Per very generously sent me some hints about vacuum bagging so I popped for a vacuum bag set.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/vacuum_press.php

The vacuum set up worked great for laminating the 16" x 9' blanks together (center section), but when I tried to glue the milled parts together I punched a large number of holes in the bag  :'(

Last iteration I used a MDF platten on top and bottom,taped the edge of the part (the Azek glue bonded the part to the bag :'()  and used a roller and paint tray with a helper to apply the glue before it dried.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Thanks Tom,
  It's hard to get my pants on some times

Mike

 

[nickao]

Mike did you use the breather Mesh over the milled parts?  If you did the parts must have been extremely pointed.

Is your bag 30 mil Duramax poly? , I use nothing less and my kids even walk over it and I have had very, very, little problems with holes.

I use the breather mesh on EVERYTHING and unlike most people I even use it on the bottom. This not only gives a better vacuum it actually protects the bag from punctures if some of the edges are pointed on the wood.  Of course try to round off any points on the wood if you can. I have not had any holes in my bag since I started using it exclusively. If really pointed you can use double or triple layers of the mesh too.

I made big pouches, like large Manila envelopes, out of the mesh. The pouch has a zipper so I can more simply place the object inside. I slip the wood in the mesh pouch and then slip the pouch in the bag.

I do not even have a batten board on the bottom at all, just the mesh. Works great.

Nick

Breather Mesh

 

[Dan Clermont]

Nice job Mike!!!

How many hours have you put into this project? The craftsmanship and creativity look great

Dan Clermont

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Hi Nick,
  Yes, I used the breather mesh & got the best poly bag. The holes appeared in the cut out shapes(the part that looks like fleur-de-lis) the bag sucked down into the shape,stretched the mesh and the pointy corners punctured the bag :'(

I slapped some duct tape on the holes and managed to get enough vaccuum to save the part. For PVC a lot of clamping pressure doesn't seem to be required.

Another problem I had was the PVC glue sticks the part to the bag :-\. I ended up running masking tape around the part before I slid it into the bag.

Mike
PS: the pump works great ;D & the mesh works fine when I glue up blanks for the center section of the railing.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Thanks Dan,
 

How many hours have you put into this project?

I haven't totaled it up yet (don't want to think about it). I just send a bill every other week. I am still working on the second floor of the porch. I'm calling the first floor "phase one" and that is "complete" (still needs paint ). I'll post some pictures Wensday.

Mike

 

[Eli]

Sort of related topic Mike. Are you billing out milestones, T+M, Fortnightly rate, what have you?

I guess you sold this one as, "It costs what it costs (I have no idea)"? ;D

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Hi Eli,
  Time & materials ;D I have done a lot of work for these folks and we have a trusting relationship. I work as fast as I can with out sacrificing quality and they don't bug me about cost (too much) I might be working at Home Depot after I finish this project. Don't have anything else lined up :-[

 

"It costs what it costs"

They are kind of stuck with that because it is a landmark building (the owners can not change the exterior of the house with out a LOT of red tape)

  I did the underside of the porch roof a couple years ago (pre-Festool for me).[attachimg=#]

Mike

 

[Neill]

Mike -

I am sure that you will have no problem in getting more projects.  Quality workmanship like you have demonstrated here is always in demand.

I hear that they may be covering the walls of the Grand Canyon in "ipe" to make it last longer.  Any interest?

Neill

 

[Mike_Chrest]

That's a pretty long commute from Rochester ;D

 

[nickao]

 

"It costs what it costs"

They are kind of stuck with that because it is a landmark building (the owners can not change the exterior of the house with out a LOT of red tape)

Mike

I am very surprised you can use anything but real wood. I had a plaqued "painted lady"(before it burned down) and the historical society at that time would not let us use anything other than original materials or as close as possible, that Azek would not have been approved.

 

[Mike_Chrest]

But Nick,
  It is wood, it just has a primer on it. ;D
Mike

http://www.azek.com/viewProject.php?name=Historic+Crocker+Art+Museum-Sacramento+CA

 

[Mike_Chrest]

Hello railing fans,
  Finally I got a chance to get some finished railing pics.[attachimg=#]

Gee they look just like the old ones ??? Photo shopped??

 

[Mike_Chrest]

A little Bondo and primer?[attachimg=#]

 

[Mike_Chrest]

On closer inspection.[attachimg=#]

We note that the profiles look amazingly sharp. Gone are the hundred years of paint. Must be really good photo shop

Will somebody please fill those nail holes