Pricing on Festool USA website taken down?

[Rob Z]

Eco, when I have been comparing prices for equipment with a couple of tile-setter friends in Canada, I have been amazed at how much things cost there, even after doing the currency conversion from Canadian dollars in the US$.  For example, one name-brand tile saw was DOUBLE the price there, assuming he could pay for it in US$!

 

[waynew]

The prices for Festool in canada are much higher than the US, I'm quite sure the prices in Europe are even higher. I can see why Festool would not want folks in Canada and Europe to become too aware of the vast difference. No conspiracy here just big business doing their best to optimise profits.

 

[ForumMFG]

In todays age, I don't think that just by not putting the prices up on a website would prevent anyone from finding out what the prices are in other country's.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Your sarcasm is completely misplaced Rick.

Sorry Alex. I wasn't expecting such a strong reaction. Your original posting made it sound as though Festool USA was deliberately trying to punish you or something.

You may be deliberately looking for U.S. pricing out of curiosity, but what about the typical foreign visitor to the website that accidentally got there from a search engine? They are just out on the internet researching information and pricing for a tool, and they come across the US website by mistake. They see the pricing and then go to their local distributor expecting that price. It ends up causing problems when the local distributor has to explain to them that he can't sell the tool at that price, and the problem is even more compounded if the person didn't realize they were looking at the US-only website when they got that price.

You need to look at the bigger picture from the perspective of an international company. Should it be more important to satisfy the small handful of curiosity seekers, or ensure that the accidental visitor isn't misinformed? Which of those two scenarios is going to have the greatest negative ramifications?

You can't buy directly from the Festool USA website, so if you were truly planning on buying something on a trip to the U.S., you would have to find a specific distributor first. Therefore, the only purpose in showing international visitors the pricing is to satisfy the curiosity seekers.

 

[waynew]

In todays age, I don't think that just by not putting the prices up on a website would prevent anyone from finding out what the prices are in other country's.

Your quite right, it really just makes it more inconvienient. Some folks could not be bothered others might not be able to work out how to go about it, my guess is that its difficult enough that the vast majority will forget all about it, so it serves the purpose very well.

 

[Daniel_n]

You can't buy directly from the Festool USA website, so if you were truly planning on buying something on a trip to the U.S., you would have to find a specific distributor first. Therefore, the only purpose in showing international visitors the pricing is to satisfy the curiosity seekers.

If Festool has the same control over it's dealers in the US as in Sweden, then I expect that the price for festool tools will be very similar no matter which dealer I make my purchase from. This is especially true if I am not a regular customer, but just a visiting Swede. So, from that point of view, checking the festoolusa.com website for prices is very neat - I can easily use the same festool order number to search for whatever item I have found on the swedish festool site (at least regarding accessories - which is of main interest due to the voltage differences) and all festool items available in the US is listed.

In all, there might be more purposes than satisfying the curiosity seekers in showing the pricing to the international customers.

Regarding foreign visitors - first of the website is called www.festoolusa.com. Second - the price is listed in USD, which is not used in too many countries except the USA. Third - differing prices in the US and Europe (and within Europe for that matter) is something that is very well know, and true in a variety of businesses, and this is common knowledge (well, I can only speak with 100% insight about the situation in Sweden, but here it's without any doubt common knowledge).

 

[AlexThePalex]

Sorry Alex. I wasn't expecting such a strong reaction. Your original posting made it sound as though Festool USA was deliberately trying to punish you or something.

I don't think they were really out to punish me for anything, however since I am a person that believes in the free flow of information on the internet, I surely consider NOT getting information as a negative thing. Especially since it is clear that the information is hidden for me on purpose.

You may be deliberately looking for U.S. pricing out of curiosity, but what about the typical foreign visitor to the website that accidentally got there from a search engine? They are just out on the internet researching information and pricing for a tool, and they come across the US website by mistake. They see the pricing and then go to their local distributor expecting that price. It ends up causing problems when the local distributor has to explain to them that he can't sell the tool at that price, and the problem is even more compounded if the person didn't realize they were looking at the US-only website when they got that price.

Honestly, you aren't giving international visitors much credit, are you?

I think most people PERFECTLY understand their own currency is NOT measured in dollars.

You need to look at the bigger picture from the perspective of an international company. Should it be more important to satisfy the small handful of curiosity seekers, or ensure that the accidental visitor isn't misinformed? Which of those two scenarios is going to have the greatest negative ramifications?

Well, since we're looking at it from 'the bigger picture', care to explain then why Festool didn't bother to this very same thing on all of their websites for other nationalities. I already explained in my previous post that apparently Festool has NO PROBLEM whatsoever to 'misinform' all other 'accidental' visitors on all their other international websites, like the Dutch, the German, the English or the Australian. For instance, if we 'stumble accidentally' onto the Australian website of Festool, we suddenly might think Festool has become crazy because all prices are twice as high even as in Europe. 

But, looking at the bigger picture, I am much more inclined to go for the explanation some other people put forward, namely the difference in pricing between the USA and Canada. Perhaps Festool doesn't want any Canadians to get any strange ideas about traveling to the USA and picking some tools up for cheap. Or anybody else for that matter. 

And if we now look at it, not from the 'bigger picture from the perspective of an international company', but from the even bigger picture of an International Capitalistic Society That Embraces The Free Market then anything that would obstruct those capitalistic free market ideas would hurt the best interests of that society as a whole, now wouldn't it? On one side you got a company looking after itself, on the other a whole society. Which of those two scenarios is going to have the greatest negative ramifications?

You can't buy directly from the Festool USA website, so if you were truly planning on buying something on a trip to the U.S., you would have to find a specific distributor first. Therefore, the only purpose in showing international visitors the pricing is to satisfy the curiosity seekers.

You can't buy directly from any of those other websites either. And it's not like they had to put in a lot of extra effort to show tose prices, no, on the contrary, the prices were already there and they had to put in extra effort to hide them.

And I suspect, that this effort was not done, as you suggest, for the benefit of accidental browsers, but with the intent to obstruct the natural flow of the free market.

 

[peter halle]

Alex,

I only offer this as a possibility.  I don't know how Festool operates in each of the various countries.  I believe that it might be that in many countries they have set up a separate company (LLC) and each of them is allowed to operate semi-independently from the "mothership" in the operations based on whatever legal agreement is in place.  Perhaps kind of like they get a suggested template on how to operate - but if they want to go further they can.  Festool in the US has had a push on for several years and maybe they are doing things a little bit differently than the rest of the world - maybe ahead of the rest - maybe not.  With their "push" it might mean that they are spending dollars on technology and infrastructure that others are not.  It might also be that in their efforts to not display information that would not be applicable to people in other countries - in an effort not to confuse or mislead - it turns out that they are disappointing or angering some.

Just my thoughts.

Peter

 

[ForumMFG]

Your sarcasm is completely misplaced Rick.

Sorry Alex. I wasn't expecting such a strong reaction. Your original posting made it sound as though Festool USA was deliberately trying to punish you or something.

You may be deliberately looking for U.S. pricing out of curiosity, but what about the typical foreign visitor to the website that accidentally got there from a search engine? They are just out on the internet researching information and pricing for a tool, and they come across the US website by mistake. They see the pricing and then go to their local distributor expecting that price. It ends up causing problems when the local distributor has to explain to them that he can't sell the tool at that price, and the problem is even more compounded if the person didn't realize they were looking at the US-only website when they got that price.

You need to look at the bigger picture from the perspective of an international company. Should it be more important to satisfy the small handful of curiosity seekers, or ensure that the accidental visitor isn't misinformed? Which of those two scenarios is going to have the greatest negative ramifications?

You can't buy directly from the Festool USA website, so if you were truly planning on buying something on a trip to the U.S., you would have to find a specific distributor first. Therefore, the only purpose in showing international visitors the pricing is to satisfy the curiosity seekers.

Good Point Rick

You can't buy directly from the Festool USA website, so if you were truly planning on buying something on a trip to the U.S., you would have to find a specific distributor first. Therefore, the only purpose in showing international visitors the pricing is to satisfy the curiosity seekers.

If Festool has the same control over it's dealers in the US as in Sweden, then I expect that the price for festool tools will be very similar no matter which dealer I make my purchase from. This is especially true if I am not a regular customer, but just a visiting Swede. So, from that point of view, checking the festoolusa.com website for prices is very neat - I can easily use the same festool order number to search for whatever item I have found on the swedish festool site (at least regarding accessories - which is of main interest due to the voltage differences) and all festool items available in the US is listed.

I don't think that will work, I don't think festool has the same part numbers for products over seas being that the power is different.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Like several FOG members, I am against Festool USA using geolocation to prevent International visitors from seeing information on their website, or being redirected somewhere else.

This subject has come up before, and Matthew posted this reply from Shane, back in Sep 2008:

The Festool USA website shows US pricing only if it believes the visitor is from the US.

Perhaps Shane could tell us why Festool USA has adopted this policy, particularly when Festool in other countries doesn't use geolocation to discriminate their visitors?

Also, is there a plan sometime in the future to redirect international visitors away from the Festool USA website completely, as intimated in his quote above?

Forrest

 

[Daniel_n]

If Festool has the same control over it's dealers in the US as in Sweden, then I expect that the price for festool tools will be very similar no matter which dealer I make my purchase from. This is especially true if I am not a regular customer, but just a visiting Swede. So, from that point of view, checking the festoolusa.com website for prices is very neat - I can easily use the same festool order number to search for whatever item I have found on the swedish festool site (at least regarding accessories - which is of main interest due to the voltage differences) and all festool items available in the US is listed.

[/quote]

I don't think that will work, I don't think festool has the same part numbers for products over seas being that the power is different.
[/quote]

Well, you might think what you want, but as I stated in my earlier post, it does in fact work regarding accessories (basically anything without a motor). Which is what we (that is us not using 110V) are mainly interested in. Regarding the actual machines, they have different numbers, as they are in fact differentely wired.

 

[Mike B]

Geolocation is never a good thing and in this case - given the relatively small detail FestoolUSA have implemented it for - pretty patronising. As others have said, it's easy enough to get US prices elsewhere so why bother at all?

Perhaps they are getting some heat on the significant price-breaks the US is getting compared to other markets?

 

[Brice Burrell]

.....Honestly, you aren't giving international visitors much credit, are you?

I think most people PERFECTLY understand their own currency is NOT measured in dollars. ............

I already threw out my explanation about the US and Canada accessing pricing. Remember both the US and Canada use dollars so there could easily be some confusion. In my earlier post I mentioned both countries shared the Festool USA website, some Canadians could still have old bookmarks to the Festool USA site, this could cause confusion if they are generally using the Festool Canada site. Plus there are a number of English speaking countries using currency referred to as dollars. The US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Cayman Islands, Bahamas and Jamaica just to name a few.  ;D  

 

[EcoFurniture]

Guys, get over it... Festool USA doesn't have to tell you why they made that move. It's is their business and i'm sure they had their reasons for doing so.

 

[ForumMFG]

Guys, get over it... Festool USA doesn't have to tell you why they made that move. It's is their business and i'm sure they had their reasons for doing so.

After I think about it more, It really doesn't bother me.  I live in the US so I shop in the US.  I would like to buy somethings over seas but I don't even think about it anymore because the cost of shipping is unreal.  If tools made over seas are sold in the US I will typcaly buy them but if not, then I don't bother to look at them or research them.  This really shouldn't be a big deal for anyone.  If there are people upset because they can't see the prices due to the fear of seeing that we get it cheaper, are we really getting it cheaper?  There are so many different factors that play into the cost of a item per country.  If anything you think people in Europe woud get it cheaper because it doesn't have to ship over seas and that means less shipping costs?

Things are so different from country to country.  Like i'm jealous that people in Europe get weeks of vacation right off the bat and sick days, so I hear.  Here in the US, we don't even get anything close to that.

 

[Mike B]

Guys, get over it... Festool USA doesn't have to tell you why they made that move. It's is their business and i'm sure they had their reasons for doing so.

So speaks the apologist. If you're going to start suggesting members "get over it" every time they put forward an opinion that is contrary to your own you'll be pretty busy posting the same suggestion in a lot of threads.... 

The point is not for them to explain themselves, the point is to let them know some of us don't think it's such a hot idea.

 

[clev1066]

Why the fuss?

Do like I do: be steady and wait for someone to sell a good condition Festool for half price or better.

I don't have a problem with Festool pricing because I won't pay it.... often. I did pay retail for my TS55 and my ETS150/5 and I have no complaints.

However I prefer the deals I got on my: MFT1080($150), a Domino with the DS systainer and 4 bits and D's($600), the CT22 ($200). an OF1000 with some nice Amana bits ($200), even a brand new ETS125 ($95). 

YOU decide what you want to pay, not Festool. They just decide what they want to charge.

I'm sorry if the above sounds like a gloat, it's not my intention. I'm just saying that there are other quality tools one can own in the meantime (Bosch, Metabo, Makita, a few other gems) until you find the price you want on the tool you want.

OTOH, it is not often I buy new. Since I'm younger than 40, it can be proved by my 1930s, '40s, '60s and '80s Powermatics and Delta/Rockwells.

I'm still saving up for some Festools. I'd like a Kapex for about $600, a Rotex150 for about $300, and an OF1400 with all the accessories for about $300 as well.

Will it happen soon? Maybe not. Will it happen? Hide and watch.

 

[score0matic]

Clev

Are you familiar with owwm.org  Old Wood Working Machines
It is my favorite on-line place to hang

when it comes to wood it is either  Old American Arn  or New German

Craig

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The point is not for them to explain themselves, the point is to let them know some of us don't think it's such a hot idea.

Ok, so you think it doesn't seem like a hot idea, but the only people complaining about it are not Festool USA customers. The only people complaining about this are non-Festool-USA customers. Don't you see the irony in this?

Of all the people posting about this, none of them have actually stated that they have, or plan to, purchase products while visiting the U.S. They have said that they would hypothetically buy in the U.S. That is a great excuse, until you take into account that when they return back home, they will have to pay duty and VAT on their US purchases.

The U.S. division of Festool is unique in many, many ways that you will not find in other geographical divisions. Name one other Festool division that supports a user forum like FOG? Name one other division that pays to have better manuals written? You won't find them.

Instead of praising the revolutionary changes that Christian and Festool USA have added to the Festool family, you international users are complaining that you are not getting more. If you want more, then why aren't you asking the division in your own country to give you more?

Don't lambaste Christian and the Festool USA team for your frustrations in your own country. Claiming that you need to know U.S. prices so you can buy over here on your vacation is B.S. and you all know it. Your desire for information is curiosity only, and has no bearing on sales.

 

[Daniel_n]

The point is not for them to explain themselves, the point is to let them know some of us don't think it's such a hot idea.

Ok, so you think it doesn't seem like a hot idea, but the only people complaining about it are not Festool USA customers. The only people complaining about this are non-Festool-USA customers. Don't you see the irony in this?

Of all the people posting about this, none of them have actually stated that they have, or plan to, purchase products while visiting the U.S. They have said that they would hypothetically buy in the U.S. That is a great excuse, until you take into account that when they return back home, they will have to pay duty and VAT on their US purchases.

The U.S. division of Festool is unique in many, many ways that you will not find in other geographical divisions. Name one other Festool division that supports a user forum like FOG? Name one other division that pays to have better manuals written? You won't find them.

Instead of praising the revolutionary changes that Christian and Festool USA have added to the Festool family, you international users are complaining that you are not getting more. If you want more, then why aren't you asking the division in your own country to give you more?

Don't lambaste Christian and the Festool USA team for your frustrations in your own country. Claiming that you need to know U.S. prices so you can buy over here on your vacation is B.S. and you all know it. Your desire for information is curiosity only, and has no bearing on sales.

What, exactly, makes you think you know even remotely enough about me and my intentions of buying tools when I am visiting the US? Absolutely nothing. Saying you do makes you look rather retarded in my opinion.

Regarding the duty and VAT - no, we don't have to pay that in Sweden (that's regarding tools for private use, bought during vacation).

Regarding all the good things festool USA have done - I am very appreciative of that, and festool Sweden have basically nothing like it. And I am happy to praise festool USA for this. In another thread, not this one which is regarding hidden prices (and geolocation) on the festool USA website.

Now, I admittedly don't know your culture (the US one that is) well enough to know if the fact that someone (that is festool USA) have done a lot a positive things means that it is not OK to criticize that organisation for the less splendid decisions they have taken. At least where I come from that is not the case.