Problems, problems

[tiralie]

I had respectfully asked members to keep this positive rather than make attacks.

I vote that you close this thread at least until you are satisfied that Festool have done everything they can.
Because of the complexity (known and unknown) of the OP's problems, at this point I doubt we can help him beyond the suggestions in the post by Alan.
Clearly Festool are helping this person with their problems of which based on his post there seems to be many.
Tim

 

[semenza]

Ditto what Shane said above. Which is why we unlocked the thread and reinserted the OPs post.  

Though many things about the post suggest otherwise, we would not have put back a seemingly tool bashing, trolling post without some due diligence, and deliberation.

It may be several days or more before we know anything else about sli's situation with the tools. Until then lets kill the speculation.

Alan presented sli's trouble spots in a nice list. How about choosing one and posting a solution. As Harry pointed out posts of that nature help all new users that may be viewing the forum, and looking for answers.

Seth

 

[sli]

Where to start? First, Shane and Brent have responded with a very professional, helpful attitude and have surprised me with their willingness to find solutions. Thank you both for that. I appreciate that Festool carries their concerns with customer satisfaction past the point of sale, where for most companies, the relationship ends with the exchange of money and tool. I was blocked from posting briefly, hence some delay, and coming off a fairly typical 70 hour work week, posting a reply has not been on the top of my list. I have read every reply and will attempt to form some general answers. My initial post was made with some serious frustration and disappointment born of under performance from the tools vs. high initial outlay, and my assumption that Festool would do nothing to rectify the problem. I was wrong on that account. Some have expressed that I wasn't really looking for help and spent more time on a post when I could have simply called. Well, my email/post/internet orders are usually conducted in the wee hours when I am worrying over some malfunctioning machine/employee/weather delay/funds transfer etc., and most tool companies don't have 24 hr. hotlines. Then again, as I expressed to Shane, who of you has tried calling a tool manufacturer for support to find themselves talking to someone in a third world country, reading from a scripted, response chart with a blurry online schematic, who usually has never even SEEN a power tool, let alone used or diagnosed one. That's the typical scenario that I'm used to and that's what I expected. Again, in case I've offended so deeply that you missed it: Festool far exceeded my expectations for customer support and concern over the performance of their tools.

Yes, I did have some issues with one supplier's shipping/packing. The order arrived with visible box damage, no packing material save a few sheets of crumpled newspaper around the systainers in a large box. The 32mm bit was chipped on a corner and the contents of most all small part systainers were jumbled and had come loose from their respective places. Maybe the rough transit did cause some alignment issues. All the Festool's were purchased with specific goals in mind fitting into our production path, not some shelf-setting, use-it-someday philosophy, and maybe that's part of the problem- perhaps I'm trying to fit these tools where they don't belong. We/I did watch (well, an employee "claimed" he watched) many of the you tube videos on tool setup etc., even though most it seems are geared towards home use. I will say that Festool's manuals seem pretty slim on the diagnose a problem and setup per application side.

When I was about 12, I got knocked in the side of my head (maybe that's what's wrong with me) for "pushing" a tool past it's limits and was made quite aware of the relationship of rpm to feed rate. (I drag raced for years and know what a powerband and tachometer are.) I grew up working in the trades and have spent the last 30 years working in this industry handling tools and wood, so the concepts of operation and general purpose of the Festool's were not new to me. That said, I am never too old to learn something new and Brent from Festool pointed out the correct two-handed operation of the Domino, which we were attempting to do, but now that I know the right-handed pressure on the barrel should be light and the left-handed pressure on the fence knob should be very firm, that may help lateral stability some. We'll see. My goal was to phase out pocket screws for our 20mm thick face frames by purchasing a few Dominos set up for repeatable tenon stations. Although I am having second thoughts about that now,  I will exchange the Domino in another attempt at this experiment.

As for the 75, I now believe it might have some shaft runout and is defective. I am also exchanging it to try another one. We had thought to use it in a dedicated rip station to trim the large entry doors we build, which can sometimes weigh over 500 lbs. not including hardware or jambs. Typically they are 12/4 hardwood stiles and rails with 8/4 panels, so the saw has not coasted, but it doesn't usually exceed 20 or so cuts a day. I don't consider that heavy use, like our table saws which pretty much run 6-8 hours a day, six days a week. Yes, the saw was calibrated to the rails we use, which are plenty long for their applications, and no we are not plunge cutting mid-stile. The kick back occurs at the beginning of a cut. Remember this is usually 2-3" thick material, not 19mm ply. Brent also pointed out that the 16 tooth Panther was an incorrect application and I should be using the 36 tooth blade, although I had similar results with both blades.

I did purchase the parallel guides with the extensions and have not found a way to make them any more stable or useful. They are going back.

The router was purchased for use with the LR32 and rail for field use on "quickie" on-site cabs (i.e. change orders) and will need to be evaluated when used accordingly. So far, I have not had a job where it was called for.

I appreciate all the responses and solutions and may contact some of you when I can, as per your invitations.

 

[Stone Message]

Sli

Thank you for coming back to us all with this. Your initial post did suprise many of us but Shane and the boys really did a good job keeping us all at bay and sorting out your problems.

I am sorry if I appeared too doubtful but we have seen some nasty stuff on the FOG not so long ago.

Welcome and may we see more posts.

Peter

 

[Brice Burrell]

.......Brent from Festool pointed out the correct two-handed operation of the Domino, which we were attempting to do, but now that I know the right-handed pressure on the barrel should be light and the left-handed pressure on the fence knob should be very firm, that may help lateral stability some. We'll see. My goal was to phase out pocket screws for our 20mm thick face frames by purchasing a few Dominos set up for repeatable tenon stations. Although I am having second thoughts about that now,  I will exchange the Domino in another attempt at this experiment.

As for the 75, I now believe it might have some shaft runout and is defective. I am also exchanging it to try another one. We had thought to use it in a dedicated rip station to trim the large entry doors we build, which can sometimes weigh over 500 lbs. not including hardware or jambs. Typically they are 12/4 hardwood stiles and rails with 8/4 panels, so the saw has not coasted, but it doesn't usually exceed 20 or so cuts a day. I don't consider that heavy use, like our table saws which pretty much run 6-8 hours a day, six days a week. Yes, the saw was calibrated to the rails we use, which are plenty long for their applications, and no we are not plunge cutting mid-stile. The kick back occurs at the beginning of a cut. Remember this is usually 2-3" thick material, not 19mm ply. Brent also pointed out that the 16 tooth Panther was an incorrect application and I should be using the 36 tooth blade, although I had similar results with both blades.

I did purchase the parallel guides with the extensions and have not found a way to make them any more stable or useful. They are going back.

The router was purchased for use with the LR32 and rail for field use on "quickie" on-site cabs (i.e. change orders) and will need to be evaluated when used accordingly. So far, I have not had a job where it was called for.

I appreciate all the responses and solutions and may contact some of you when I can, as per your invitations.

Sli, I'm glad you took the time to post an update.  I hope you can keep us informed as you and your guys get more time in with the tools.  Let me throw out some of my thoughts on the issues you're having that might help.

The Domino is a fabulous tool, but there is a learning curve.  If you guys are used to biscuit joiners and are expecting the Domino to be used the same way you'll surely run into the problems, like the one you're having.  First, the Domino is a super precise tool and it doesn't take much faulty input from the operator for it to go wrong.  You've got the right hand positioning now and I assume Brent talked to you about plunge rate.  I think plunge rate, specifically plunging too fast, is the bulk of the problem.  With a biscuit joiner you can just plunge that sucker in pretty much as fast as you want, not the case with the Domino.  It's hard to say how fast is too fast but a moderate pace for the plunge is right.  It will seem fairly slow in comparison to a biscuit joiner.  Hands on time is needed to figure it out, and I'm sure you guys will. Edited to add: You mentioned the pieces not going all the way together, are you always using dust collection with the Domino?  If not that could be the problem.

Now for the Domino to replace pocket screws for face frame construction.  It sounds like you guys are setup for production so I'm guessing you can bang out pocket holes quickly.  With the Domino it will be a much slower process and add the time of gluing/clamping, well, this could be a big step back for your production.  I say play with the Domino for the 30 days and see how things go.  You might find other uses that justify keeping it even if it doesn't work out with the face frames.  

I have the TS55 and my experience with it has been nothing short of spectacular.  I am a remodeling contractor but I also do some smaller cabinet and built-in jobs so my uses and applications probably differ from yours to some degree.  I do have a ton of experience of cutting doors with my plunge saw.  You're right about cutting thick materials being significantly different that cutting 3/4" ply.  You have to keep some downward pressure on the saw's handles or the saw want to lift up during the cut.  Also, and this is a big one, you have to let the saw get up to full speed before you start the cut.  If not you're going to get some amount of kickback almost every time.  You can get away with less care in thinner materials but not so much in the thick stuff.

Someone already posted about your not being alone about a dislike of the parallel guides.  I have them and make good use of them despite any comings in the design.  But, if you don't see them fitting into your work flow then you've probably made the right choice in letting them go.

Now, the LR32 may not work out as you envision.  The LR32 doesn't work well, if at all, on cabinets all ready assembled.  The guide rail needs to be clamped down to work correctly and that is difficult or impossible on an assembled cabinet box.  I'd suggest you try out your ideas and decided if it's going to work before too much time passes.

If I can offer any more assistance just let me know, post your questions here or contact me through PM or email.  Good luck.            

       

 

[sw1211]

Not sure if this link has been provided, if not, you might want to check out these supplemental user manuals

 

[sancho57]

>>I did purchase the parallel guides with the extensions and have not found a way to make them any more stable or useful. They are going back.