RAS alternative?

[Alanbach]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] - It might be a long shot but you might want to keep a close on the Recon site next week. If they have a Black Friday sale you might get lucky and find an RAS 115.

 

[Cheese]

It might be a technique issue on my part, but I tried using my RO 90 with some P40 Granat to shorten some shelves and it was slow going, at best, and tortuous at worst.  Maybe I should have used P24, maybe I shouldn't have been trying to shorten rough end-grain mahogany, maybe I needed a harder pad, maybe I was just impatient.

The problem lies in the relatively slow rotational rpm combined with the small pad/abrasive diameter on the RO 90. What you really want to do is to attain a high SFPM (surface feet per minute) velocity without going too high causing burning of the surface or premature wear of the abrasive disc from heat.

Here's a quick SFPM rundown on the Rotexes listing model, rpm & SFPM.

RO 90...520 rpm...482 SFPM
RO 125...600 rpm...773 SFPM
RO 150...660 rpm...1022 SFPM

RAS 115...4000 rpm...4747 SFPM
Milwaukee 5" RA...8500 rpm...11,135 SFPM

You can see that the RAS cuts at 10X the speed of the RO 90. The RO 150 just squeaks into the 1000 SFPM realm only by virtue of it's large diameter disc.

Going by the SFPM numbers, you can see why the RAS and all RA grinders are capable of hogging out a lot of material in a short time frame.

However as Alex mentioned the high SFPM tools can easily burn surfaces and that's the reason they need to have variable speed.

 

[guybo]

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] Just looking to add another scribing tool to my arsenal for sneaking up to the line, either fitting cabinets or coping trim.

Matt, why not use an RO 90 or RO 125 and get a bunch more use out of your choice?  [smile]

  Hi, had I back cut this the 125 ro would have made quick work of this .It took about 2min plus like this

 

[Crazyraceguy]

RAS 115...4000 rpm...4747 SFPM

You can see that the RAS cuts at 10X the speed of the RO 90. The RO 150 just squeaks into the 1000 SFPM realm only by virtue of it's large diameter disc.

Going by the SFPM numbers, you can see why the RAS and all RA grinders are capable of hogging out a lot of material in a short time frame.

However as Alex mentioned the high SFPM tools can easily burn surfaces and that's the reason they need to have variable speed.

That has to be the max RPM's surface speed, any idea of the minimum speed? That is definitely the advantage of the variable speed. I rarely use it a higher speed because it too will burn rather than cut. When used with course paper so it cuts, rather than rub, it works great. The little 90 degree die-grinder with a Roloc disc, that I would have used in the past, almost can't help itself. When you throttle it down enough to keep from burning, it has no power. They rely on pure speed, no torque at all. I still have one, but it is pretty much metal only at this point.

 

[Cheese]

That has to be the max RPM's surface speed, any idea of the minimum speed?

Ya, the RAS rotates at 1500-4000 rpm. That equates to 1780-4747 SFPM.
The Milwaukee RA grinder at 3000-8500 rpm equates to 3930-11,135 SFPM.

 

[morts10n]

What would one expect to pay for a new or nearly new RAS 115? I saw a local Craigslist ad for an RAS for $750 US!!! That is insane

 

[Ron B]

The RAS115 was my first Festool purchase.  In 2019 they discontinued this and I bought one at clearance price at $219, list $370.  I noticed these sell high, so I checked "sold" items on E-Bay.  It shows two that sold, one at $600 and one at $800 used.  I cannot see paying those prices, but just be aware that if  you find one at a decent price, be quick on getting it.  Good luck.

 

[squall_line]

What would one expect to pay for a new or nearly new RAS 115? I saw a local Craigslist ad for an RAS for $750 US!!! That is insane

For a discontinued, high-demand tool like the RAS, that's not terribly surprising.  Of course, with all things, it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay.

The listings I can't understand are the 15 year-old versions of currently available tools in the classic systainer covered in dirt, sawdust, and all manner of other stuff listed for over retail price.  They're usually accompanied by stock copy from Festool's website as well as "if you know what this is, you know it's worth it" or similar language.

 

[MrToolJunkie]

This is one of those tools where people who have used them appreciate what they do. It was not a mainstream tool like some of the other sanders and likely part of why Fesool discontinued it. just not enough sales volume to warrant it.

 

[DynaGlide]

A member who read this thread reached out to me and sold me his older unit. Should be getting here this week. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

 

[Cheese]

This is one of those tools where people who have used them appreciate what they do. It was not a mainstream tool like some of the other sanders and likely part of why Fesool discontinued it. just not enough sales volume to warrant it.

Like ScottF said, these were never a mainstream tool. See Peter Halle's input on Reply 98.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...a/heads-up-ras-115-and-sysports-discontinued-(us)/30/

 

[usernumber1]

i still don't get the RAS. why can't i just use a small belt sander. I imagine euros did just that

 

[cpw]

i still don't get the RAS. why can't i just use a small belt sander. I imagine euros did just that

I have used my RAS for coping molding, something I saw at the Festool road show at Tool Nut a several years ago.  I wouldn't try that with my belt sander.

 

[Cheese]

I got it as a hopeful alternative when Porter-Cable discontinued the baby belt sander.

Hey [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member]...just curious if you've ever used ScotchBrite style non-woven web belts on the baby PC or know of a source for them?  I've been looking for years, could be an easy way to straight-line stainless or aluminum.  [smile]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The RAS115 was my first Festool purchase.  In 2019 they discontinued this and I bought one at clearance price at $219, list $370.  I noticed these sell high, so I checked "sold" items on E-Bay.  It shows two that sold, one at $600 and one at $800 used.  I cannot see paying those prices, but just be aware that if  you find one at a decent price, be quick on getting it.  Good luck.

That is downright crazy. I bought mine in the late summer of '19, kind of on a whim. It was relatively inexpensive in the world of Festool and I hoped it could fit in. It did, but I had no idea that it would be discontinued so soon.
I just looked through my Amazon orders. $215 in October of '19. Now they sell used for 3 times the price?

 

[morts10n]

Indispensabile for scribing...I use it all day long dor that

 

[MrToolJunkie]

A member who read this thread reached out to me and sold me his older unit. Should be getting here this week. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Let us know your thoughts once you try it. I hope it lives up to the hype for your use.

 

[DynaGlide]

A member who read this thread reached out to me and sold me his older unit. Should be getting here this week. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

Let us know your thoughts once you try it. I hope it lives up to the hype for your use.

I have to admit. .this thing is pretty darn cool for scribing. Easy to control and captures a good amount of dust, enough that I'd feel comfortable using it inside. I know it can do other things than scribe but that's what I wanted it for. It would've made fitting some filler strips and the countertop on my office a lot easier had I had it then. If it ever dies on me I suppose I'll replace it with a RA grinder and scribe outside.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I got it as a hopeful alternative when Porter-Cable discontinued the baby belt sander.

Hey [member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member]...just curious if you've ever used ScotchBrite style non-woven web belts on the baby PC or know of a source for them?  I've been looking for years, could be an easy way to straight-line stainless or aluminum.  [smile]

No, I have never seen such a  thing for the little 2.5" x 14" belt sander. I was however glad to have a Klingspor Rep to service our shop, because he could get me belts for it easily. That long ago, I wasn't the Amazon user that I am now, and local purchasing was a joke. When they first hit the stores around here, it was only woodworking retailers. The big box places didn't carry them, so consumables were not readily available. Since I used it a ton, that was a big win. That little sander was the only tool that didn't have a "home", and sat out on a side table overnight. Everything else got "put away", into a specific drawer, toolbox or Systainer. The only time it ever went back into it's case was for road-trips.
When it started acting like it might give out on me, my boss bought me a new one. I took the old one home, so it would be around for much lighter use. It is still going and that "new" one got killed in the fire. That is/was the one tool that I wish I could have been able to replace and have not. Porter Cable discontinued them and I don't trust the Ebay market enough to risk it.
So far, the RAS115 has come through for me in every situation where the baby belt sander would have been the choice. But now it looks like it is doomed to the same fate?

 

[Cheese]

When they first hit the stores around here, it was only woodworking retailers. The big box places didn't carry them, so consumables were not readily available.

Sorry... [off topic]

That's been the bane of the baby PC from it's birth...consumables were never consistently available even from Porter Cable. That and the heat it produces when you use it continuously for 10-15 minutes were the beginning of the death knell. Super convenient and it had nice ergonomics, light weight and was easy to handle but the factory support for it was nil.  [sad]