Respirator Filters

[wptski]

I use a 3M 6000 Series mask.  Are you guys using P95/P100 filters or organic vapor cartridges and /or combos which are harder to breath through or switching when needed?  If switching, what material are you using the organic vapor cartridges for?

 

[mouppe]

I use P95 filters, change them once every few months, and replace the mask every year or so.

 

[sae]

OV for painting, the dark pink P100 have nuisance level OV filtering for light use. I don't go under P100.

If you paint more than a few hours per week, consider a supplied air system. They're adding new chemicals to paint that pass through OV cartridges.

 

[wptski]

OV for painting, the dark pink P100 have nuisance level OV filtering for light use. I don't go under P100.

If you paint more than a few hours per week, consider a supplied air system. They're adding new chemicals to paint that pass through OV cartridges.

The P100 are HEPA grade and can be used to protect if one was sanding lead based paints.  I don't think they are much good if lacquer thinner is being used.  Gets a bit confusing as one must look up what's in the material and see if it's on a organic vapor list.

I'm rather new to spraying and used poly for the first time yesterday in a room in my home.  Plastic to the ceiling, supply/returned registers cover with filter material and the floor covered.  I used a P100 with no problem during use but afterwards there was an odor throughout the home, much stronger in the room and waited till it was fairly dry to open a window.  I could taste it on my lips just from a few trips into the room.

There's no organic vapor chemical used in the poly I used so I just wondered what others were using with what?

 

[sae]

Here's their product selection guide:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/444511O/3m-respiratory-product-selection-guide.pdf

3M recommends 6051 for PU, which is the OV cartridge.

 

[wptski]

Here's their product selection guide:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/444511O/3m-respiratory-product-selection-guide.pdf

3M recommends 6051 for PU, which is the OV cartridge.

What's PU?  That's the question, what materials have users sprayed that requires a OV cartridge?

 

[rvieceli]

PolyUrethane

 

[wptski]

PolyUrethane

Yeah, that just dawned on me!  3M states to use for OV but where does it state that all polyurethane contain OV?  Need a matching chart.

Here's a OV list but the PU I was using didn't contain anything from the list.

 

[atomicmike]

Here's a OV list but the PU I was using didn't contain anything from the list.

What polyurethane are you using? PU is an organic molecule, so it needs to be in some sort of organic solvent as a carrier (though not all of them are necessarily volatile).

 

[atomicmike]

If you have both particulate and OV filters for your mask, you can also test pretty easily if your PU has VOCs. If you can smell it through the particulate filter, but not through the OV filter, then you have your answer. [Edit: As sae pointed out below, don't actually test using this method, since you're exposing yourself to potential harm.]

Funny (and kinda gross) story... I was doing some dusty work around the house a few years ago, so I grabbed my respirator. The OV cartridges were on it, and I was too lazy to swap them out for the P100 ones, so I just went with it. While I was working, I farted a few times and didn't think anything of it. When I took the respirator off, I almost gagged on the sudden rush of stink. [eek]

 

[wptski]

What polyurethane are you using? PU is an organic molecule, so it needs to be in some sort of organic solvent as a carrier (though not all of them are necessarily volatile).

Minwax Water Based Oil-Modified Polyurethane, like I mentioned above using a P100, I couldn't smell anything but the point of this thread was to ask what materials a OV would be needed but maybe that's too broad of a question?

 

[atomicmike]

Minwax Water Based Oil-Modified Polyurethane, like I mentioned above using a P100, I couldn't smell anything but the point of this thread was to ask what materials a OV would be needed but maybe that's too broad of a question?

I asked the specific product because a lot of organic chemicals, especially solvents, go by many names. So the one on the list may or may not match what's on the label. For instance, I'm working in a research lab right now, and one of the key solvents we use goes by at least 4 names that I can think of off the top of my head.

In the case of that product, the MSDS shows it contains 1-Methyl-2-Pyrrolidone, which is on that OV list.

 

[sae]

If you have both particulate and OV filters for your mask, you can also test pretty easily if your PU has VOCs. If you can smell it through the particulate filter, but not through the OV filter, then you have your answer.

If you can smell it, you've already caused yourself harm.

3M breaks it down pretty well:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...chupdate.pdf?fn=Isocyanates 3M TechUpdate.pdf

 

[atomicmike]

Forgot to say... Your best bet, rather than comparing lists of chemicals, is to just look at the MSDS and see what safety precautions the manufacturer recommends. The Personal Protection section will tell you if what you're working with requires an organic vapor respirator, if you should be wearing gloves, etc.

 

[atomicmike]

If you have both particulate and OV filters for your mask, you can also test pretty easily if your PU has VOCs. If you can smell it through the particulate filter, but not through the OV filter, then you have your answer.

If you can smell it, you've already caused yourself harm.

3M breaks it down pretty well:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...chupdate.pdf?fn=Isocyanates 3M TechUpdate.pdf

Those are mostly in two-part polyurethanes, which aren't really used much outside of industry (at least as far as I know) because they require rather precise temperature controls to get the reaction to run right.

That being said, you're absolutely correct to point out that if you can smell any VOC, you're already being exposed. Isocyanates are on the nastier end of the spectrum, but there are plenty of others out there that you really don't want to be smelling/breathing.

 

[atomicmike]

sae's link above to 3M also brings up another important point... "The issue with use of air purifying respirators is that they will reach a point at which the filter becomes saturated and will no longer capture the isocyanate or other solvents."

With any organic vapor cartridge, it is vital that you change it at least as often as the manufacturer specifies (the 3M ones I have say once per month). Once the package has been opened, the clock is ticking on the activated charcoal in the cartridge, even if you don't use it. Don't wait until you can smell solvent coming through the filter, since it's too late at that point.

 

[wptski]

I asked the specific product because a lot of organic chemicals, especially solvents, go by many names. So the one on the list may or may not match what's on the label. For instance, I'm working in a research lab right now, and one of the key solvents we use goes by at least 4 names that I can think of off the top of my head.

In the case of that product, the MSDS shows it contains 1-Methyl-2-Pyrrolidone, which is on that OV list.

My bad!  I never scrolled down to the second list which does list that chemical.

If a P100 eliminated the smell does that really mean that 1-Methyl-2-Pyrrolidone caused the oder?

 

[atomicmike]

If the P100 stopped the odor, it probably wasn't coming from the 1-Methyl-2-Pyrrolidone. It's a fairly small molecule, and a gas at room temperature, so it would easily pass through a particulate filter (though if the filter is REALLY clogged, it might be able to stop some of it). It has a somewhat fishy odor, as does the Dimethylethanol Amine that's in your finish. The other chemical listed, 2-Methoxymethylethoxypropanol, has a somewhat sweet odor (like ether). Even if the P100 is blocking those odors, though, I wouldn't count on it to protect you from exposure. It may be that it's blocking just enough to get below the threshold where you can smell it.

As a comparison, the finish I usually use (General Finishes Enduro-Var) contains Triethylamine. I've worked with pure Triethylamine in the lab a few times and find even a faint whiff of the smell unbearable, but I've never picked up on it when using the finish, even though there's a fair bit present.

Thinking about it more, my suggestion earlier on the smell difference between filter cartridges is definitely bad advice. There's a lot of difference from person to person in what chemicals we can smell and how they smell, etc.

This is a gross generalization, but practically any finish (even one that claims to be "zero VOC") will have some kind of volatile organic component to it. In order to go from a liquid to a solid, something needs to evaporate off, and that something winds up in the air that you're breathing. While water-borne finishes replace a lot of the nastier petroleum solvents with water, there is still something in there (such as 1-Methyl-2-Pyrrolidone and/or 2-Methoxymethylethoxypropanol) to get the finish part to actually dissolve in water. Most of them use additional chemicals (such as the -amines) that are reactive and help the finish cure and bond well. Plenty of people get by without an organic vapor respirator when brushing or rolling water-borne finishes (with adequate ventilation), but I'd never chance it when spraying.

(The exceptions to that simplification are things like epoxies and isocyanates, which you REALLY don't want to breathe.)

 

[wptski]

Acetone will give me a headache before I can even smell it.  I'll use a OV cartridge from now on.

I couldn't an answer to this but I wonder why the are three different groups of OV chemicals in that list?

 

[atomicmike]

Acetone will give me a headache before I can even smell it.  I'll use a OV cartridge from now on.

I couldn't an answer to this but I wonder why the are three different groups of OV chemicals in that list?

My original assumption was that it's level of hazard. But looking at the list again, they mention that they are in groups based on how you can measure exposure in a lab. So exposure to everything in group A can be checked for in one test, etc.