RO 150 - best pad combo for car polishing?
- Thread starter HowardH
- Start date
Hi. This post is a repost about Auto Detailing in general and using the Rotex RO150 FEQ for auto detailing. I've cleaned up most of the typos, bad links, and errors, and gave short descriptions to the hyperlinks.
Please let me know if you find a bad link or typo.
Dan.
----
Although there are many woodworkers in this forum, consider Festool products as "Woodworking" products is VERY limiting.
One of the issues that I've encountered is the lack of knowledge on the topic of car detailing. Invariably the first "newbie" question is, "What is the best wax to make my car really shine?"
The correct answer is, "You're asking the wrong question!"
My purpose for this post is to help folks ask the right questions, understand the overall detailing process, show how the RO150 fits in the process, and give them sources for more info and products. To accomplish this, I've categorized the topic into four sub-topics below:
Please understand that this post combines my experience in detailing my cars with my Porter-Cable buffer plus lots of great detailing forum feedback plus specific reviews from detailers using the current and prior RO150. The aim of this post is to suggest what you SHOULD do, not what you COULD do. That said...
Two major caveats:
I hope you find this useful. Please take a look and let me know about anything that could or should be changed. This includes errors, differences of opinion, grammar and spelling changes, and anything else.
Best regards,
Dan.
p.s., A quick story... About 12 four months ago, I parked my 2002 Audi A4 right next to a brand new, same color, 2006 Audi A4 with the temp tag still on it. A fellow I worked with walked by, looked at the new Audi and then at my Audi, said, "Wow, brand new Audi?" (indicating my car). I said, "No, it's four years old, hasn't been waxed in 8 months and hasn't been washed in three weeks." His mouth popped open and all he could say was, "Wow!". (I love it when they do that.) ;-)
p.p.s. Since I wrote this, Zaino (my favorite auto protectant company) has come out with some new products that have some amazing properties. I'll post a followup when I have some experience with them.
Car Detailing FAQ
What is the best wax to make my car really shine?
It isn't the "wax" that makes a car shine. It is the paint preparation. The paint must, repeat MUST, MUST, MUST(!!!) be clean and free of defects. "Clean" means more than just washing and "free of defects" means more than just "like new" paint.
Which "wax" should I use?
"Wax" typically means "Carnauba Wax". For pros that want the absolute best and don't mind spending two hours each month applying and buffing off the wax, that's fine. For the rest of us, a sealant is better. Good quality sealants like Zaino Z2 Pro or Z5 Pro will typically last 6-8 months before the protection starts degrading. (Other products such as Klasse AIO and Menzerna FMJ work well too.)
My car has never been "waxed". What should I do?
In general, you need to wash your car carefully with Dawn dish washing liquid, remove sap with sap remover, clean with detailing clay, wash again (to remove all traces of cleaners), polish with a good quality polish, than apply sealant twice. See "Overall Detailing Process" below. Thehttp://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html andhttp://www.properautocare.com/detailingtips.html has good info. Overall info:http://www.autopia-carcare.com/how-to.html.
I washed my car. Why does the paint feel rough?
The air has contaminants (pollution, brake dust, rail dust, etc.) Even with new cars, these contaminants embed themselves into car paint. After washing, they MUST be removed with good detailing clay (e.g. Zaino Z18, Sonus SFX ). Seehttp://www.properautocare.com/usclaybartor.html or the "Pre-wax Cleaning" section ofhttp://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html for more info. (Note - I much prefer Zaino clay. I do NOT like some of the other clays and never use store-bought clay lubricants!)
I like to clay my car and its wheels every 6-8 months when I reapply sealant. With a good sealant (like Zaino Z2 Pro), contaminants will not adhere to the car's surface very well and the car stays cleaner.
Tip - Think your paint is clean and smooth? Get a thin sandwich baggie (not a ziplock), place it over your hand and then run your fingers lightly over the surface. Feelo those bumps like you feel when you haven't shaved for three days? Still think your paint is clean?!?
Clay lubricant seems expensive. Anything cheaper?
Pour about an ounce of good quality car wash (e.g. Zaino Z7) into a 16 oz spray bottle. Fill with water. Works great and inexpensive! I personally like Zaino Z7 to make lubricant.
I see very fine scratches in the paint. It looks "fuzzy". Why?
Assuming that you've washed and clayed your car, these are probably "swirls" or "spider webs". They MUST be removed it you want a nice finish. Get a good quality polish and sponge pads, and use your RO150 (or PC) to remove them. Normally, the 150's RO mode, a white polishing pad, and a lighter grade of polish (like Menzerna Final Polish II) will remove many problems. For tougher problems like haze and deeper scratches or marring, you will need to switch to a stronger polish (like Menzerna Intensive Polish), more intensive, yellow or orange sponge pad, and/or switch the RO150 to Rotex mode.
Note - AFAIK, NO other product combines RO and Rotex modes to give you both mild cleaning and power polishing in one tool like the RO150.
What are the best products available from my auto-parts store?
Another trick question... Answer? Probably none! Most mass retailers and auto-parts stores are like the BORG - aimed at the "unwashed" mass market. The customers want "cheap" and the retailers want to maximize profit. So, they skimp on quality. Go into your local HD or Lowes, and ask for a high-quality chisel or plane and see what you get. You might get good quality IF you know what you are looking for. Online vendors and specialty car products vendors are the best choice for quality products.
What's the best cotton towel to use for drying and buffing my paint?
NONE! Cotton holds contaminants and will scratch your paint. Use only micro-fiber towels on your paint. Use waffle-weave towels for drying, and plush towels for polishing and cleanup.
For microfiber towels to buff your polish or for drying the car, tryhttp://www.properautocare.com/wash---dry.html andhttp://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-microfiber.html (good info on what it is, the types, and how to care for). For cheap micro-fiber towels to clean your door jambs, dust the dash, etc., Costco and Sams club have a 20 pack for about $12. (Don't use these for polishing or drying the surface paint.)
What's the best way to wash and wax my wheels for protection?
When prepping your car for a sealant, wash and clay your wheels too. The will probably be covered with wheel dust. Then use a good sealant (like Zaino Z2 Pro) on the wheels.
Do NOT use a "wheel" wax or other wax-based product. Wheels get hot and melt the wax within days. A good sealant makes the wheels look great, but more importantly, it seals and protects them. During you weekly washes, you'll notice that the brake dust washes off with a few swipes of a wheel brush.
What's the best way to "wash" the car?
There are two types of cleanings - regular (weekly, bi-weekly) and polishing/sealing prep. The wash portion is the same in both cases. When prepping for polish/sealing, you need to wash, then clay, then remove sap and caked on gunk, then wash again. The second wash is critical prior to polishing and sealing to ensure that all cleaning agents are removed. (Otherwise polishes may not work well and sealants won't adhere properly.)
To wash the car, here's my process:
1. Use a sheepskin mitt (check the vendors I've listed) is the best way of washing your car and NOT scratching it. (Don't buy a mitt a local auto-supply house. I did once and it was junk. It matted and the wool fell out in clumps.)
2. Wet down your car.
3. Use a foam gun to apply a good quality car soap (e.g., Zaino Z7). Apply foam to a section, scrub lightly with mitt, then rinse mitt.
A decent foam gun costs about $50, but it allows you to apply uncontaminated soap to the paint. (Same foam gun:http://www.pinnaclewax.com/piqufofogun.html,http://www.autogeek.net/woqufofogun.html, Foam Gun video post:http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72036. This looks like the gun I use. It works well. Make sure that the gun has a BRASS foamer and NOT a plastic one. The cheapies are garbage.)
4. After doing a section (e.g., hood, top, upper side), rinse out the mitt in a 4-5 gallon rinse bucket. (I use two - one each side of the car. The cheap orange buckets from HD work great.) Rinsing out the mitt is critical because it removes the grit and dirt well.
5. Work from top of car to bottom. For the sides, back and front, I recommend doing the upper portion (which is cleaner) first, rinsing you mitt, then doing the lower side (which is dirtier). Then, for the very bottom use a soft car brush (e.g. Oxo wash brush:http://www.properautocare.com/featwasbrus.html) to attack the real gunk. Make sure that you rinse the brush often.
6. After the paint portion, wash each tire then the wheel. Use a stiff tire brush the tires and a soft wheel brush for the wheels. (Some details here: http://www.autopia-carcare.com/tires---wheels.html.) I use an OXO wheel brush and an OXO tire brush, but the new Mequier's brushes look very interesting (http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo.net/mevebr.html).
Unless the wheels have no sealant applied and are very gunked up, do NOT use a wheel cleaner. With a sealant applied, the wheels wash as easily as the paint. A little foam and a few swishes with a soft wheel brush is all that's necessary to get them clean.
7. What's the best way to dry the car?
First, to get most of the water off the car, blow-dry it with an electric leaf blower. (I use a Toro 215 mph electric blowerToro Electric Super Blower/Vac. About $60 at Lowes.) It sounds nuts, but works great! It's especially good at getting water out of the cracks and crevices of the car. Grills and wheels are dry in a few seconds.
I keep my blow dryer plugged into a live extension cord and hanging next to the garage door. I can pull it down, dry the car and hang it back up within 5 minutes.
After the car is blown dry, use a waffle-weave microfiber towel to DAB away the few remaining drops of water on the car. Do NOT wipe with the towel, just dab.
8. Are paints different?
Yes. Paints differ (sometimes radically) between car lines. German paints are considered harder than paints from other countries. Audi paints are considered some of the hardest and most difficult to polish. Aggressive polishes and buffers (like a rotary buffer or the Rotex 150 in Rotex mode) are necessary to remove some paint blemishes.
9. Can I use the sponge pads that came with my buffer?
In general, the answer is almost always "NO!!! Absolutely NOT!". Virtually all people who detail cars (both amateurs and pros) use sponge pads purchased from a quality vendor like Lake Country, Sonus, or Edge. AFAIK, only the 6" Lake Country pads (which use a 6" backing plate) can be used the RO150.
Overall Detailing Process
In general, I have two detailing processes - one every six to eight months (or even a year) to get the car really clean and protected, and one every one to three weeks to keep it nice looking.
Clean, Polish and Seal:
1. Wash car (see above) with Liquid Dawn dishwashing soap - about 20 minutes.
2. Remove tar and sap - 10-30 minutes.
3. Rinse
4. Clay car - 20-40 minutes depending on condition
5. Re-wash (to remove cleaners) Liquid Dawn dishwashing soap - about 10 minutes.
6. Dry (see above) - above 10 minutes. (I make sure it's VERY dry.)
7. Assess paint condition -10 minutes
8. Polish Car - In general, always polish with the least abrasive and least aggressive methods first. Then, if this doesn't work, move to more aggressive combinations of sponge pad, polish, buffer speed, and/or RO/Rotex mode.
9. Here's a link on prepping a car for Zaino Sealants: http://www.lazaino.com/ApplyZaino.htm. Also, see "Polishing Car Using the RO150", below for more info.
10. This will take anywhere from one hour to two days depending on the condition of the paint and size of car.
11. Remove polish carefully. I prefer to do this by hand, but I've done it using buffer with a microfiber buffing bonnet. - 15 minutes
12. Apply sealant. This can be done by hand or by buffer. See "Apply Sealant with RO150", below for more info. - About 20-40 minutes.
13. Wait one hour for sealant to dry.
14. Buff dry sealant. Again, I prefer to do this by hand. - 10-20 minutes.
15. Apply and buff off a second coat of sealant. About 80-100 minutes, including drying time. (Second coat goes on faster.)
16. Wipe down interior - about 2-3 minutes.
17. Clean door wells with utility microfiber towel - about 2-3 minutes.
18. Clean windows with Stoners glass cleaner (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/stn-91164.html) - about 5 minutes.
19. Apply Z6 quick detailer/gloss enhancer spray and buff dry with good quality microfiber towel - about 10 minutes.
Total time: four hours to three days.
Regular Washing and Detailing:
1. Wash car (see above) with good quality car soap - about 20 minutes.
2. Dry (see above) - above 5 minutes.
3. Wipe down interior - about 2-3 minutes.
4. Clean door wells with utility microfiber towel - about 2-3 minutes.
5. Clean windows with Stoners glass cleaner (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/stn-91164.html) - about 5 minutes.
6. Apply Z6 quick detailer/gloss enhancer spray and buff dry with good quality microfiber towel - about 10 minutes.
Total time: 45-50 minutes.
Using the RO150 for Detailing
Why the Festool RO150?
The Festool Rotex 150 is considered by many to be the ultimate auto detailing buffer. Besides the standard benefits that woodworkers appreciate (quality, lack of vibration, etc.), they have two unique benefits for detailers:
First, the Festool RO150 gives you the gentleness of an RO buffer with the speed and power of a rotary buffer in one tool. The 150's gentle RO mode gives you all the benefits of other RO polishers but with virtually no vibration. But, in Rotex mode (as you know) it really takes off. When you need power, it's there at flip of the switch. One reviewer said that it has 95% of a Rotary buffer with virtually no chance of burning the paint!
Second, a Festool RO150 can use a detailer's current polishing materials. The polishing plate will work with polishing foam pads that are 6" or above, and use a 6" hook and loop backing pad (like the Lake Country pads). Since many detailers have an inventory of pads (I have about 20) that can easily exceed $200, this is a MAJOR plus.
You can find more help here, including a very recent RO150 review by a detailer. Search for "Festool":http://www.autopia.org/.
Sponge Buffing Pads and Backing Plates
A word about terminology... "Backing Plate" is the standard term used in the industry. Festool's term for Backing Plate is "Polishing Pad". The industry refers to "Foam Pad". Festool calls them "Polishing Sponge". Generally I'll refer to them in the industry standard term because you will probably want to use non-Festool Foam Pads and need that term for searches.
Different vendors have pads of different shapes and sizes. After looking at lots of vendors offerings, I started with Lake Country 6" pads and then quickly moved to the Lake Country CCS Technology 7.5" sponge pads from Proper Auto Care. The LC 7.5" pads are nice because they have four separate surfaces that can be used for polishing or applying sealant. The edges are soft and a bit pointed so it's easy to get into crevices and odd spots. And, they have a separate plastic backer that keeps that pad flat. The plastic backer also makes it easy to align the RO150's polishing backer pad.
Edit: It looks like Lake Country has introduced some new 6-1/2 inch, CCS Technology Pads. I have NOT used these, but these might fit the Festool backing plates better.
One MAJOR point of confusion is that Lake Country and other manufacturers make specific pads for specific on-line retailers. AFAIK, the LC "Advanced, Hi-Gloss, Constant Pressure Pads 7.5 inch" pads are only available from Proper Auto Care. However Auto Geekhttp://www.autogeek.net/curvededge.html has "Curved Edge Full Contact 7.5 inch" pads that look very similar but are (AFAIK) different and only available from Auto Geek.
I believe that Proper Auto Care pads have a plastic backing to which the loop and hook is attached. And they use "Constant Pressure" foam and have a concave section in the middle. The AutoGeek pads don't have constant pressure foam or the plastic backing, but they lack the concave section in the middle. Which one is better? I don't know.
Tip #1 - Check the size of the "Backing Plate" required. Some 6" and larger sponge pads use a 6" backing plate/pad (Lake Country and Sonus SFX pads). Others (like the Sonus Dual-Action System (DAS) pads) use a 5" backing plate.
The RO150's Backing Plate ("Polishing Pad D6 - 485748") is 6" wide. So the 6" LC foam pads and the Sonus SFX pads will work fine. OTOH, the Sonus DAS pads on an RO150. (They may work on an R0125 though.)
Tip #2 - To reduce vibration, ensure that the sponge pad is aligned perfectly with the buffer's backing pad.)
Polishing using the Festool RO150
In general, always polish with the least abrasive and least aggressive methods first. Then, if this doesn't work, move to more aggressive combinations of sponge pad, polish, buffer speed, and/or RO/Rotex mode.
Based on my experience with a Porter Cable buffer and feedback from RO150 users, here's the process that I have used and will use with the NEW Rotex 150 FEQ:
1. Using four Festool "Polishing Pad D6 - 485748" pads, and attach four LC 7.5" sponge pads - two white, one yellow and one red - to them.
2. Remove the RO150 FEQ's DC attachment and set the 150 to RO mode.
3. Using a white LC pad, mist the pad with a little water from a water spray bottle and then drizzle a little finishing polish (e.g., Menzerna Final Polish or Zaino Z-PC) on the surface of the pad.
4. If the sponge pad has NOT been used during this polishing session, you need to season it.
To season a pad, lower the buffer speed to about 1-2, set the pad on the paint surface, and slightly raise the back of the machine so you are working with the top 1/3 of the pad. Start the buffer. After polishing for a minute or two the pad will become more evenly saturated with product and actually become softer from heat build-up. At this point, you can safely transition from a tilted up to a flat position.
5. Reset buffer speed to about 4 and work the polish in a small area (two to four square feet) in a figure 8 pattern. Go over the area in a left-to-right figure 8 pattern and then an up-and-down figure 8 pattern until it starts breaking down. Consult your products instructions to determine when you should stop. When finished with one area, move to a new section and continue.
6. When to remove the polish depends on a number of factors, include type and brand of polish, temperature and humidity, and your own process.
Using Menzerna polishes, I typically work it until it breaks down but BEFORE is dries completely. I finish several 4 sq foot sections (e.g., the hood) and then remove the remainder by hand. I mist the surface with water (remember, this is polish not sealant) and wipe off with a soft microfiber buffing towel.
7. Examine the surface to determine if more aggressive polishing is needed. If there are few minor spots, re-polish using the same setting and polish and increase your speed up to 5 and then 6. (Remember... Least aggressive first.) If this doesn't work, set the buffer to Rotex mode and try the remaining spots again.
If the problem spots exist and especially if a large portion of the working area in poor condition, snap off the white polishing pad/finish polish combo and snap on a white pad and use intensive polish (e.g., Menzerna Intensive polish). Start with RO mode again and change to Rotex mode if necessary.
If the problem STILL exists, snap off the white pad, change to a yellow pad with Intensive polish. If really bad you may want to use a compounding agent like a 3M Fine Cut Compound:http://www.properautocare.com/3mperfincutc.html. Be very careful at this point because you can damage the paint regardless of the buffer used.
Key Tip #1 - The more intensive polishes/pads WILL knock down the shine. After using a more aggressive pad/polish combo, wipe the panel COMPLETELY clean and use your white pad/finishing polish combo again to bring up the shine.
Key Tip #2 - Do NOT get your pad/polish combos mixed up and NEVER mix polishes on the same pad. (I have four white pads and two yellow pads for this purpose.)
8. Continue until the car is completely polished.
9. Now, wipe down that car completely with a CLEAN microfiber buffing towel to ENSURE that the surface is pristine. At this point, you should see a major improvement in the paint. Here's a tips links for prepping and applying Zaino sealants.
I haven't tried this, but the new Zaino Z-PC polish looks interesting.
Applying Sealants with RO150
I've applied sealants by hand and using a buffer. The best method depends on the sealant
If by buffer, use a very soft Red pad and apply sparingly using lower speed (3-4) in RO mode. Note that this process assumes you are using Zaino products.
1. Mist the Red pad with Zaino Z6 gloss enhancer. (It's purpose is similar to water in the polishing step.)
2. Mix the amount of sealant necessary for your session. (Zaino sealants are two part - a sealant and an accelerator.)
3. Apply the sealant (e.g., Zaino Z2 Pro) VERY sparingly in multiple small dabs to the pad. Smear it around with your fingers and cover all sides of the pad. (My pads have 4 sides.)
4. Season the pad as described in the Polishing step above using a low speed to prevent splatter.
5. Set the buffer speed to about 3 and apply the sealant VERY sparingly to a small six square foot area. Don't spend lots of time buffing it in. You are just interested in a very thin, even coat. Do NOT remove it at this time.
6. Continue to apply in a new area until the car is done.
7. When the car is complete, wait until the sealant is COMPLETELY dry. In dry, warm weather this can be as little as 30 minutes AFTER you finish the car. In cool moist weather, this may take several hours or overnight.
To test for dryness, wipe a clean, dry finger across the haze. If you see shiny paint, it's dry. If the haze smears, it's still wet. Go get a and chill out. Then try again.
8. Using a microfiber buffing towel, buff off the haze. If the sealant is applied thinly, this goes pretty quickly - about 20-30 minutes to buff the car down.
9. Spray Z6 gloss enhancer and buff dry.
10. Do step 3 through 9 to apply a second coat.
11. Now you're done. (Come back in 6-8 months and do it again.)
Cleaning your pads
When you are finished with your car detail, clean the sponge pads in a special pad cleaner like "Snappy Clean":http://www.properautocare.com/snclpadclpo.html. After rinsing thoroughly, attach the pad to the buffer in Rotex mode, place buffer head in large bucket, and spin at low speed (1). This removes most of the water and allows them to dry within an hour or two.
Additional Resource Links
Detailers Guide - Autopia has "Guide To Detailing" that is great for newbies:http://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html
Zaino main web site is:http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc
IMO, the best final step product for light clear coated finishes is Zaino Z2 Pro. And the final step product for dark clear coated finishes is Z5 Pro. For single step finishes (like the old boat), you'd use: Z3
Please let me know if you find a bad link or typo.
Dan.
----
Although there are many woodworkers in this forum, consider Festool products as "Woodworking" products is VERY limiting.
One of the issues that I've encountered is the lack of knowledge on the topic of car detailing. Invariably the first "newbie" question is, "What is the best wax to make my car really shine?"
The correct answer is, "You're asking the wrong question!"My purpose for this post is to help folks ask the right questions, understand the overall detailing process, show how the RO150 fits in the process, and give them sources for more info and products. To accomplish this, I've categorized the topic into four sub-topics below:
- Car Detailing FAQ
- Overall Detailing Process
- Using the RO150 for Detailing
- Additional Resource Links
Please understand that this post combines my experience in detailing my cars with my Porter-Cable buffer plus lots of great detailing forum feedback plus specific reviews from detailers using the current and prior RO150. The aim of this post is to suggest what you SHOULD do, not what you COULD do. That said...
Two major caveats:
- This is "in my opinion...". If you have a detailing process that works, please ignore this. If not, at least it's a good place to start.
- This is related to automobiles and automobile paints only. The information may NOT be useful for polishing wood.
I hope you find this useful. Please take a look and let me know about anything that could or should be changed. This includes errors, differences of opinion, grammar and spelling changes, and anything else.
Best regards,
Dan.
p.s., A quick story... About 12 four months ago, I parked my 2002 Audi A4 right next to a brand new, same color, 2006 Audi A4 with the temp tag still on it. A fellow I worked with walked by, looked at the new Audi and then at my Audi, said, "Wow, brand new Audi?" (indicating my car). I said, "No, it's four years old, hasn't been waxed in 8 months and hasn't been washed in three weeks." His mouth popped open and all he could say was, "Wow!". (I love it when they do that.) ;-)
p.p.s. Since I wrote this, Zaino (my favorite auto protectant company) has come out with some new products that have some amazing properties. I'll post a followup when I have some experience with them.
Car Detailing FAQ
What is the best wax to make my car really shine?
It isn't the "wax" that makes a car shine. It is the paint preparation. The paint must, repeat MUST, MUST, MUST(!!!) be clean and free of defects. "Clean" means more than just washing and "free of defects" means more than just "like new" paint.
Which "wax" should I use?
"Wax" typically means "Carnauba Wax". For pros that want the absolute best and don't mind spending two hours each month applying and buffing off the wax, that's fine. For the rest of us, a sealant is better. Good quality sealants like Zaino Z2 Pro or Z5 Pro will typically last 6-8 months before the protection starts degrading. (Other products such as Klasse AIO and Menzerna FMJ work well too.)
My car has never been "waxed". What should I do?
In general, you need to wash your car carefully with Dawn dish washing liquid, remove sap with sap remover, clean with detailing clay, wash again (to remove all traces of cleaners), polish with a good quality polish, than apply sealant twice. See "Overall Detailing Process" below. Thehttp://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html andhttp://www.properautocare.com/detailingtips.html has good info. Overall info:http://www.autopia-carcare.com/how-to.html.
I washed my car. Why does the paint feel rough?
The air has contaminants (pollution, brake dust, rail dust, etc.) Even with new cars, these contaminants embed themselves into car paint. After washing, they MUST be removed with good detailing clay (e.g. Zaino Z18, Sonus SFX ). Seehttp://www.properautocare.com/usclaybartor.html or the "Pre-wax Cleaning" section ofhttp://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html for more info. (Note - I much prefer Zaino clay. I do NOT like some of the other clays and never use store-bought clay lubricants!)
I like to clay my car and its wheels every 6-8 months when I reapply sealant. With a good sealant (like Zaino Z2 Pro), contaminants will not adhere to the car's surface very well and the car stays cleaner.
Tip - Think your paint is clean and smooth? Get a thin sandwich baggie (not a ziplock), place it over your hand and then run your fingers lightly over the surface. Feelo those bumps like you feel when you haven't shaved for three days? Still think your paint is clean?!?
Clay lubricant seems expensive. Anything cheaper?
Pour about an ounce of good quality car wash (e.g. Zaino Z7) into a 16 oz spray bottle. Fill with water. Works great and inexpensive! I personally like Zaino Z7 to make lubricant.
I see very fine scratches in the paint. It looks "fuzzy". Why?
Assuming that you've washed and clayed your car, these are probably "swirls" or "spider webs". They MUST be removed it you want a nice finish. Get a good quality polish and sponge pads, and use your RO150 (or PC) to remove them. Normally, the 150's RO mode, a white polishing pad, and a lighter grade of polish (like Menzerna Final Polish II) will remove many problems. For tougher problems like haze and deeper scratches or marring, you will need to switch to a stronger polish (like Menzerna Intensive Polish), more intensive, yellow or orange sponge pad, and/or switch the RO150 to Rotex mode.
Note - AFAIK, NO other product combines RO and Rotex modes to give you both mild cleaning and power polishing in one tool like the RO150.
What are the best products available from my auto-parts store?
Another trick question... Answer? Probably none! Most mass retailers and auto-parts stores are like the BORG - aimed at the "unwashed" mass market. The customers want "cheap" and the retailers want to maximize profit. So, they skimp on quality. Go into your local HD or Lowes, and ask for a high-quality chisel or plane and see what you get. You might get good quality IF you know what you are looking for. Online vendors and specialty car products vendors are the best choice for quality products.
What's the best cotton towel to use for drying and buffing my paint?
NONE! Cotton holds contaminants and will scratch your paint. Use only micro-fiber towels on your paint. Use waffle-weave towels for drying, and plush towels for polishing and cleanup.
For microfiber towels to buff your polish or for drying the car, tryhttp://www.properautocare.com/wash---dry.html andhttp://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-microfiber.html (good info on what it is, the types, and how to care for). For cheap micro-fiber towels to clean your door jambs, dust the dash, etc., Costco and Sams club have a 20 pack for about $12. (Don't use these for polishing or drying the surface paint.)
What's the best way to wash and wax my wheels for protection?
When prepping your car for a sealant, wash and clay your wheels too. The will probably be covered with wheel dust. Then use a good sealant (like Zaino Z2 Pro) on the wheels.
Do NOT use a "wheel" wax or other wax-based product. Wheels get hot and melt the wax within days. A good sealant makes the wheels look great, but more importantly, it seals and protects them. During you weekly washes, you'll notice that the brake dust washes off with a few swipes of a wheel brush.
What's the best way to "wash" the car?
There are two types of cleanings - regular (weekly, bi-weekly) and polishing/sealing prep. The wash portion is the same in both cases. When prepping for polish/sealing, you need to wash, then clay, then remove sap and caked on gunk, then wash again. The second wash is critical prior to polishing and sealing to ensure that all cleaning agents are removed. (Otherwise polishes may not work well and sealants won't adhere properly.)
To wash the car, here's my process:
1. Use a sheepskin mitt (check the vendors I've listed) is the best way of washing your car and NOT scratching it. (Don't buy a mitt a local auto-supply house. I did once and it was junk. It matted and the wool fell out in clumps.)
2. Wet down your car.
3. Use a foam gun to apply a good quality car soap (e.g., Zaino Z7). Apply foam to a section, scrub lightly with mitt, then rinse mitt.
A decent foam gun costs about $50, but it allows you to apply uncontaminated soap to the paint. (Same foam gun:http://www.pinnaclewax.com/piqufofogun.html,http://www.autogeek.net/woqufofogun.html, Foam Gun video post:http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72036. This looks like the gun I use. It works well. Make sure that the gun has a BRASS foamer and NOT a plastic one. The cheapies are garbage.)
4. After doing a section (e.g., hood, top, upper side), rinse out the mitt in a 4-5 gallon rinse bucket. (I use two - one each side of the car. The cheap orange buckets from HD work great.) Rinsing out the mitt is critical because it removes the grit and dirt well.
5. Work from top of car to bottom. For the sides, back and front, I recommend doing the upper portion (which is cleaner) first, rinsing you mitt, then doing the lower side (which is dirtier). Then, for the very bottom use a soft car brush (e.g. Oxo wash brush:http://www.properautocare.com/featwasbrus.html) to attack the real gunk. Make sure that you rinse the brush often.
6. After the paint portion, wash each tire then the wheel. Use a stiff tire brush the tires and a soft wheel brush for the wheels. (Some details here: http://www.autopia-carcare.com/tires---wheels.html.) I use an OXO wheel brush and an OXO tire brush, but the new Mequier's brushes look very interesting (http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo.net/mevebr.html).
Unless the wheels have no sealant applied and are very gunked up, do NOT use a wheel cleaner. With a sealant applied, the wheels wash as easily as the paint. A little foam and a few swishes with a soft wheel brush is all that's necessary to get them clean.
7. What's the best way to dry the car?
First, to get most of the water off the car, blow-dry it with an electric leaf blower. (I use a Toro 215 mph electric blowerToro Electric Super Blower/Vac. About $60 at Lowes.) It sounds nuts, but works great! It's especially good at getting water out of the cracks and crevices of the car. Grills and wheels are dry in a few seconds.
I keep my blow dryer plugged into a live extension cord and hanging next to the garage door. I can pull it down, dry the car and hang it back up within 5 minutes.
After the car is blown dry, use a waffle-weave microfiber towel to DAB away the few remaining drops of water on the car. Do NOT wipe with the towel, just dab.
8. Are paints different?
Yes. Paints differ (sometimes radically) between car lines. German paints are considered harder than paints from other countries. Audi paints are considered some of the hardest and most difficult to polish. Aggressive polishes and buffers (like a rotary buffer or the Rotex 150 in Rotex mode) are necessary to remove some paint blemishes.
9. Can I use the sponge pads that came with my buffer?
In general, the answer is almost always "NO!!! Absolutely NOT!". Virtually all people who detail cars (both amateurs and pros) use sponge pads purchased from a quality vendor like Lake Country, Sonus, or Edge. AFAIK, only the 6" Lake Country pads (which use a 6" backing plate) can be used the RO150.
Overall Detailing Process
In general, I have two detailing processes - one every six to eight months (or even a year) to get the car really clean and protected, and one every one to three weeks to keep it nice looking.
Clean, Polish and Seal:
1. Wash car (see above) with Liquid Dawn dishwashing soap - about 20 minutes.
2. Remove tar and sap - 10-30 minutes.
3. Rinse
4. Clay car - 20-40 minutes depending on condition
5. Re-wash (to remove cleaners) Liquid Dawn dishwashing soap - about 10 minutes.
6. Dry (see above) - above 10 minutes. (I make sure it's VERY dry.)
7. Assess paint condition -10 minutes
8. Polish Car - In general, always polish with the least abrasive and least aggressive methods first. Then, if this doesn't work, move to more aggressive combinations of sponge pad, polish, buffer speed, and/or RO/Rotex mode.
9. Here's a link on prepping a car for Zaino Sealants: http://www.lazaino.com/ApplyZaino.htm. Also, see "Polishing Car Using the RO150", below for more info.
10. This will take anywhere from one hour to two days depending on the condition of the paint and size of car.
11. Remove polish carefully. I prefer to do this by hand, but I've done it using buffer with a microfiber buffing bonnet. - 15 minutes
12. Apply sealant. This can be done by hand or by buffer. See "Apply Sealant with RO150", below for more info. - About 20-40 minutes.
13. Wait one hour for sealant to dry.
14. Buff dry sealant. Again, I prefer to do this by hand. - 10-20 minutes.
15. Apply and buff off a second coat of sealant. About 80-100 minutes, including drying time. (Second coat goes on faster.)
16. Wipe down interior - about 2-3 minutes.
17. Clean door wells with utility microfiber towel - about 2-3 minutes.
18. Clean windows with Stoners glass cleaner (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/stn-91164.html) - about 5 minutes.
19. Apply Z6 quick detailer/gloss enhancer spray and buff dry with good quality microfiber towel - about 10 minutes.
Total time: four hours to three days.
Regular Washing and Detailing:
1. Wash car (see above) with good quality car soap - about 20 minutes.
2. Dry (see above) - above 5 minutes.
3. Wipe down interior - about 2-3 minutes.
4. Clean door wells with utility microfiber towel - about 2-3 minutes.
5. Clean windows with Stoners glass cleaner (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/stn-91164.html) - about 5 minutes.
6. Apply Z6 quick detailer/gloss enhancer spray and buff dry with good quality microfiber towel - about 10 minutes.
Total time: 45-50 minutes.
Using the RO150 for Detailing
Why the Festool RO150?
The Festool Rotex 150 is considered by many to be the ultimate auto detailing buffer. Besides the standard benefits that woodworkers appreciate (quality, lack of vibration, etc.), they have two unique benefits for detailers:
First, the Festool RO150 gives you the gentleness of an RO buffer with the speed and power of a rotary buffer in one tool. The 150's gentle RO mode gives you all the benefits of other RO polishers but with virtually no vibration. But, in Rotex mode (as you know) it really takes off. When you need power, it's there at flip of the switch. One reviewer said that it has 95% of a Rotary buffer with virtually no chance of burning the paint!
Second, a Festool RO150 can use a detailer's current polishing materials. The polishing plate will work with polishing foam pads that are 6" or above, and use a 6" hook and loop backing pad (like the Lake Country pads). Since many detailers have an inventory of pads (I have about 20) that can easily exceed $200, this is a MAJOR plus.
You can find more help here, including a very recent RO150 review by a detailer. Search for "Festool":http://www.autopia.org/.
Sponge Buffing Pads and Backing Plates
A word about terminology... "Backing Plate" is the standard term used in the industry. Festool's term for Backing Plate is "Polishing Pad". The industry refers to "Foam Pad". Festool calls them "Polishing Sponge". Generally I'll refer to them in the industry standard term because you will probably want to use non-Festool Foam Pads and need that term for searches.
Different vendors have pads of different shapes and sizes. After looking at lots of vendors offerings, I started with Lake Country 6" pads and then quickly moved to the Lake Country CCS Technology 7.5" sponge pads from Proper Auto Care. The LC 7.5" pads are nice because they have four separate surfaces that can be used for polishing or applying sealant. The edges are soft and a bit pointed so it's easy to get into crevices and odd spots. And, they have a separate plastic backer that keeps that pad flat. The plastic backer also makes it easy to align the RO150's polishing backer pad.
Edit: It looks like Lake Country has introduced some new 6-1/2 inch, CCS Technology Pads. I have NOT used these, but these might fit the Festool backing plates better.
One MAJOR point of confusion is that Lake Country and other manufacturers make specific pads for specific on-line retailers. AFAIK, the LC "Advanced, Hi-Gloss, Constant Pressure Pads 7.5 inch" pads are only available from Proper Auto Care. However Auto Geekhttp://www.autogeek.net/curvededge.html has "Curved Edge Full Contact 7.5 inch" pads that look very similar but are (AFAIK) different and only available from Auto Geek.
I believe that Proper Auto Care pads have a plastic backing to which the loop and hook is attached. And they use "Constant Pressure" foam and have a concave section in the middle. The AutoGeek pads don't have constant pressure foam or the plastic backing, but they lack the concave section in the middle. Which one is better? I don't know.
Tip #1 - Check the size of the "Backing Plate" required. Some 6" and larger sponge pads use a 6" backing plate/pad (Lake Country and Sonus SFX pads). Others (like the Sonus Dual-Action System (DAS) pads) use a 5" backing plate.
The RO150's Backing Plate ("Polishing Pad D6 - 485748") is 6" wide. So the 6" LC foam pads and the Sonus SFX pads will work fine. OTOH, the Sonus DAS pads on an RO150. (They may work on an R0125 though.)
Tip #2 - To reduce vibration, ensure that the sponge pad is aligned perfectly with the buffer's backing pad.)
Polishing using the Festool RO150
In general, always polish with the least abrasive and least aggressive methods first. Then, if this doesn't work, move to more aggressive combinations of sponge pad, polish, buffer speed, and/or RO/Rotex mode.
Based on my experience with a Porter Cable buffer and feedback from RO150 users, here's the process that I have used and will use with the NEW Rotex 150 FEQ:
1. Using four Festool "Polishing Pad D6 - 485748" pads, and attach four LC 7.5" sponge pads - two white, one yellow and one red - to them.
2. Remove the RO150 FEQ's DC attachment and set the 150 to RO mode.
3. Using a white LC pad, mist the pad with a little water from a water spray bottle and then drizzle a little finishing polish (e.g., Menzerna Final Polish or Zaino Z-PC) on the surface of the pad.
4. If the sponge pad has NOT been used during this polishing session, you need to season it.
To season a pad, lower the buffer speed to about 1-2, set the pad on the paint surface, and slightly raise the back of the machine so you are working with the top 1/3 of the pad. Start the buffer. After polishing for a minute or two the pad will become more evenly saturated with product and actually become softer from heat build-up. At this point, you can safely transition from a tilted up to a flat position.
5. Reset buffer speed to about 4 and work the polish in a small area (two to four square feet) in a figure 8 pattern. Go over the area in a left-to-right figure 8 pattern and then an up-and-down figure 8 pattern until it starts breaking down. Consult your products instructions to determine when you should stop. When finished with one area, move to a new section and continue.
6. When to remove the polish depends on a number of factors, include type and brand of polish, temperature and humidity, and your own process.
Using Menzerna polishes, I typically work it until it breaks down but BEFORE is dries completely. I finish several 4 sq foot sections (e.g., the hood) and then remove the remainder by hand. I mist the surface with water (remember, this is polish not sealant) and wipe off with a soft microfiber buffing towel.
7. Examine the surface to determine if more aggressive polishing is needed. If there are few minor spots, re-polish using the same setting and polish and increase your speed up to 5 and then 6. (Remember... Least aggressive first.) If this doesn't work, set the buffer to Rotex mode and try the remaining spots again.
If the problem spots exist and especially if a large portion of the working area in poor condition, snap off the white polishing pad/finish polish combo and snap on a white pad and use intensive polish (e.g., Menzerna Intensive polish). Start with RO mode again and change to Rotex mode if necessary.
If the problem STILL exists, snap off the white pad, change to a yellow pad with Intensive polish. If really bad you may want to use a compounding agent like a 3M Fine Cut Compound:http://www.properautocare.com/3mperfincutc.html. Be very careful at this point because you can damage the paint regardless of the buffer used.
Key Tip #1 - The more intensive polishes/pads WILL knock down the shine. After using a more aggressive pad/polish combo, wipe the panel COMPLETELY clean and use your white pad/finishing polish combo again to bring up the shine.
Key Tip #2 - Do NOT get your pad/polish combos mixed up and NEVER mix polishes on the same pad. (I have four white pads and two yellow pads for this purpose.)
8. Continue until the car is completely polished.
9. Now, wipe down that car completely with a CLEAN microfiber buffing towel to ENSURE that the surface is pristine. At this point, you should see a major improvement in the paint. Here's a tips links for prepping and applying Zaino sealants.
I haven't tried this, but the new Zaino Z-PC polish looks interesting.
Applying Sealants with RO150
I've applied sealants by hand and using a buffer. The best method depends on the sealant
If by buffer, use a very soft Red pad and apply sparingly using lower speed (3-4) in RO mode. Note that this process assumes you are using Zaino products.
1. Mist the Red pad with Zaino Z6 gloss enhancer. (It's purpose is similar to water in the polishing step.)
2. Mix the amount of sealant necessary for your session. (Zaino sealants are two part - a sealant and an accelerator.)
3. Apply the sealant (e.g., Zaino Z2 Pro) VERY sparingly in multiple small dabs to the pad. Smear it around with your fingers and cover all sides of the pad. (My pads have 4 sides.)
4. Season the pad as described in the Polishing step above using a low speed to prevent splatter.
5. Set the buffer speed to about 3 and apply the sealant VERY sparingly to a small six square foot area. Don't spend lots of time buffing it in. You are just interested in a very thin, even coat. Do NOT remove it at this time.
6. Continue to apply in a new area until the car is done.
7. When the car is complete, wait until the sealant is COMPLETELY dry. In dry, warm weather this can be as little as 30 minutes AFTER you finish the car. In cool moist weather, this may take several hours or overnight.
To test for dryness, wipe a clean, dry finger across the haze. If you see shiny paint, it's dry. If the haze smears, it's still wet. Go get a and chill out. Then try again.
8. Using a microfiber buffing towel, buff off the haze. If the sealant is applied thinly, this goes pretty quickly - about 20-30 minutes to buff the car down.
9. Spray Z6 gloss enhancer and buff dry.
10. Do step 3 through 9 to apply a second coat.
11. Now you're done. (Come back in 6-8 months and do it again.)
Cleaning your pads
When you are finished with your car detail, clean the sponge pads in a special pad cleaner like "Snappy Clean":http://www.properautocare.com/snclpadclpo.html. After rinsing thoroughly, attach the pad to the buffer in Rotex mode, place buffer head in large bucket, and spin at low speed (1). This removes most of the water and allows them to dry within an hour or two.
Additional Resource Links
Detailers Guide - Autopia has "Guide To Detailing" that is great for newbies:http://autopia-carcare.com/freeguide.html
Zaino main web site is:http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc
IMO, the best final step product for light clear coated finishes is Zaino Z2 Pro. And the final step product for dark clear coated finishes is Z5 Pro. For single step finishes (like the old boat), you'd use: Z3
Dave Ronyak
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,234
Almost all I can say is WOW! and THANKS!, Dan. I have used my RO 125 with 6 to 8 inch diameter foam pads from Meguiar's, 3M and Griott's Garage using a much simplified schedule compared to the comprehensive schedule listed by Dan, and still have obtained results that are more than satisfactory to me that have caused neighbors and passers-by to ask how I make my cars shine so well. The clay bar step is definitely a key one.
My son has a 2000 VW that sits outside all the time, downwind beside a row of white pine trees. It has metallic green / clearcoat paint. The only time it is garaged is when it is in for repairs or maintenance. Someone gave me a tin of Turtle Wax one-step cleaner wax. To my surprise, a thorough wash and dry, clay bar treatment and application of this cleaner wax with my RO 125 with a foam pad 2X per year keeps it looking very good and without a bunch of swirl marks or "spider marks." I post this merely to make a point that you can use your Rotex to keep your car looking better than most without spending a lot of time or money on car care products. Of course, if you want the ultimate results possible, follow Dan's detailed instructions.
My son has a 2000 VW that sits outside all the time, downwind beside a row of white pine trees. It has metallic green / clearcoat paint. The only time it is garaged is when it is in for repairs or maintenance. Someone gave me a tin of Turtle Wax one-step cleaner wax. To my surprise, a thorough wash and dry, clay bar treatment and application of this cleaner wax with my RO 125 with a foam pad 2X per year keeps it looking very good and without a bunch of swirl marks or "spider marks." I post this merely to make a point that you can use your Rotex to keep your car looking better than most without spending a lot of time or money on car care products. Of course, if you want the ultimate results possible, follow Dan's detailed instructions.
Matthew Schenker
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 2,619
Dan,
As always, an unbelievable contribution from you! Thanks for taking the time to provide such great information to help other members know how to do this.
I'm going to move this discussion to the "How To" board, since it works really well there as a tutorial on using the RO 150 for car polishing.
Thanks,
Matthew
As always, an unbelievable contribution from you! Thanks for taking the time to provide such great information to help other members know how to do this.
I'm going to move this discussion to the "How To" board, since it works really well there as a tutorial on using the RO 150 for car polishing.
Thanks,
Matthew
James Metcalf
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 209
As others have said, great post. I have read it several times and it has been very helpful. One note from my experience on the question about the best polish pad. The RO150 EQ uses fast fix part #493914 which is 145mm in diameter and some of the Lake County pads are 150mm. As you noted to me, the Velcro, once applied, is hard to remove from the pad. Thus the need for four pads, as you stated in your post. The Fast fix super soft pad part #493917 is more costly, but it is a perfect fit at 150mm.
One note on cleaning the pads: after use, pads need soaking in pad cleaner to remove wax. I thought a good suggestion on removing water from clean pads is to run the RO 150 at high speed just inside your wash bucket. The centrifugal force will sling the water out so that the sponge will dry quickly. Placing the pad in the sun sponge side down will drain water away from pad backing and give the sponge pads a longer life.
One note on cleaning the pads: after use, pads need soaking in pad cleaner to remove wax. I thought a good suggestion on removing water from clean pads is to run the RO 150 at high speed just inside your wash bucket. The centrifugal force will sling the water out so that the sponge will dry quickly. Placing the pad in the sun sponge side down will drain water away from pad backing and give the sponge pads a longer life.
Since Festool has updated the polishing pads recently I am going to bump this thread.
I have looked for a Festool leaflet explaining the different polishing pads without any luck, but maybe someone here knows where I can find this? What is the main difference between the white and the black pad? Any recommendations for pad-types for the "annual polishing"?
I have looked for a Festool leaflet explaining the different polishing pads without any luck, but maybe someone here knows where I can find this? What is the main difference between the white and the black pad? Any recommendations for pad-types for the "annual polishing"?
leakyroof
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2011
- Messages
- 2,501
My Festool pads are a bit older( Bought them when I got the new-to-the US Shinex Polisher. Back then, the black honeycomb pad was just a bit finer/softer than the 'fine' white pad. Haven't seen the updated pads though.Magpal said:
As for Annual Polishing, I would think no coarser than their Orange Pad, and if you wash and wax your car often , you might only need a Fine Pad to apply Polish for a Modern Clearcoat in nice shape.
