Rotax 125, I give up, Now for sale

[Stone Message]

My conclusions (for me and this Rotex) are that whilst the media used might have a slight bearing on any issues, it is more probable that it is how the operator interacts with the machine that can make the biggest difference to it in use. My trials over the last couple of days have given me a great starting point with this particular Rotex as they have forced me to spend some quality time with this machine and try to get to know its strengths and weaknesses, and hopefully may also help others with issues they might have with their own machines, and, as I said earlier if not, possibly give them a starting point for their own trials.

After using this Rotex 125, would you conclude there's anything wrong with the machine itself?

Just one other thing, can anybody suggest the best way of cleaning a Rotex? Mine now looks like its 3 years old already. 

Paint thinner works wonderfully for cleaning the black plastic of Festool tools. Vacs excepted.

It seems okay to me, I am not an authority though, I just used it until I got comfortable with it, where I found issues I made an effort to work out how to either subdue them or rectify them. I now think it can do what I want it to do, for me. It may not be perfect, I don't know what perfect is supposed to work like. It may throw the odd wobbly in the future but I will then work out how to either live with it or work out how to work around it.

Thanks for the cleaning tip.

Excellent analysis Ed - which, I believe, supports what I said at the start of this...

"I suspect that some users need time to get used to different types of tool and so it is the user being run in and not the tool."

We all have to adapt to the tools - the tools do not adapt to us.

Peter

 

[nerfball]

This has been an informative thread and I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses. I too have a new 125 and am struggling with it bouncing around so this will help me.

 

[woodguy7]

I am getting more & more disappointed in fog when threads like this come up.  This subject has come up many times & certain members will always say everything is perfect with the tool & it is the user at fault.  People tried to defend the Carvex 400,,,,,It was so bad Festool pulled it & rushed out another version (which wasn't much better).  You shouldn't have to fight with a sander to get it to behave or to let it "Break In" or "learn how to use it".  When theres a problem, say theres a problem.  Its how things get fixed !

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am getting more & more disappointed in fog when threads like this come up.  This subject has come up many times & certain members will always say everything is perfect with the tool & it is the user at fault.

Odd that we never see a thread named "My ETS150 is jumping all over the place". Or "My DTS400 is taking a spin with me".

Because those are perfectly well behaved and docile sanders. It is very easy to make those gentle sanders do what you want. How different it is with the Rotex. We see numerous threads about them, especially the 125 seems to be a bad boy. Well, what do you expect? It is a sander made for power, for quick removal of lots of material. It IS going to be more temperamental than those other sanders, and it IS not going to be the sander for everybody.

But often all too quickly the sander is blamed for being defective. Lets send it back to Festool for servicing, while we know that just as with all other types of tools they sell, of all Rotexes 99,9% leaves the factory in perfectly working order. But if we have to believe the threads on the FOG, about half of all Rotexes sold are defective, a number that defies logic.

Of course posters are going te get the reaction there's nothing wrong with the sander. If anything, this thread proves it. The same sander that didn't work in one person's hands did just fine in somebody else's. You can read that back if you want to.

If this were a forum about household pets, you're not gonna find threads like "My chinchilla is trying to bite my head off" or "My hamster chases me down the hallway". But you just might if you bought a cougar.

 

[mouppe]

Alex, I agree with you. If the sander is not defective the issue is with the user. Either it's not what the user wanted or expected- that's fine- or he isn't handling it properly, in which case he needs a little tutorial or some more experience with it.

But for those of us who have used this sander issue-free for many years, it makes no sense to keep reading about problem after problem- all of which can be overcome with a little education and patience.

 

[woodguy7]

If someone is lucky enough to have an RO that behaves itself then I'm happy for them.  Do you have one ?  Does it jump about at random ?  When it kicks off it can do some really bad damage to the workpiece & rip the pad to shreds.
All my other tools work perfectly fine (except the Carvex 400 & 420 which i couldn't get rid of quick enough) but the RO is just so random & unpredictable.  I think it is far from acceptable behaviour for a sander.  I don't own a RAS but i believe they are even more aggressive used for large stock removal.  I don't recall ever reading about them jumping all over the workpiece at random.
Like i said, some people will never admit a Festool has a shortcoming.

If i read one more person saying, if you hold it at the very end or stick your tongue out whilst sanding it eliminates it going mental then I'm going to throw it through my computer screen.

 

[woodguy7]

it makes no sense to keep reading about problem after problem

Stop reading it then.  Like i said, if theres a problem, say it.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=14pt]
Alex is on the right track here. I think one significant issue is that many expect a ROTEX to be, as the playwright Robert Bolt wrote, 'A Man for All Seasons'.

Some have recommended in past posts that if you are going to have only one  Festool Sander, get a ROTEX. Fair comment. BUT it will never really substitute for a finish sander such as an ETS 150/3, 125 or R2 etc,. I seldom use my RO150 over 120/180 grit, returning it only later, if required, to the work piece for oiling/polishing.

Empirically there is FOG evidence that the RO125 is more difficult for some than its 150 and 90 sisters, but many members using the same or similar handling techniques appear to have gained great satisfaction using any one of the three.

[attachimg=1]

 

[peter halle]

In reading the various threads about difficulties with sanders - particularly the Rotex models - there does to be a consistent asking of questions or advice.  My personal observations are that the Rotex is a more complex sander than most are used to.  Hey, a sander is a sander is a sander; right?  Who needs to learn about a sander?  Throw a sheet of paper on it, turn the switch on and let it do what most of us hate to do by hand.  Simple enough.

But, in reality when you start sanding a material with a machine that has enough oomph (almost like a disk grinder which didn't take its vitamins) then different nuances come into play.  How the machine is held to counteract the forces at play.  How the grit of the paper in combination will interact with the material and then will that cause the sander to want to grab and exert the resulting equal but opposite force in a different way.  Some unexpectedness comes into play when grain directions, knots, uneven edges, etc are present.  At least in my experiences.  Experience with the tool helps with that.

Are there some bad tools out there - YES.  Can you teach every dog a new trick? No.  Is it a sander for everyone? Obviously not.  Does it mean that if the Rotex doesn't work out for you that you are a lessor woodworker or person?  HECK NO!

I am not spreading the Festool love in this thread.  I am not knocking those who don't like the Rotexes.  Just giving my impressions as a reader of many posts and a Rotex owner for over 6 years.

Woodguy,  please don't throw anything.  [eek]

Peter

EDIT:  The RAS will jump around like crazy if you do apply it flat to the surface and don't have experience with it.  The most effective way to use it is to use it a slight angle so that the resulting forces are minimized.  Again, just my observation as a RAS owner and lover for a number of years.

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Ed,

I've seen some ugly lumber get turned into some nice furniture, but wow is that a nice turnaround!  Well-done.......

I would like to give an update on this topic.

I was looking or a Festool Sander and I bought the RO125 to work on the seat struts and rear panels for a Garden Bench that I am making from reclaimed Iroko planls that were previously used as baffles in a flocculation tank at a water treatment works (potable) and were under water (with chemicals added) for over 20 years. They then spent about 5 years in my back garden and I have been using them for various things since.



These are what they look like after machining:



I must have spent about 4-5 hours using the sander today and have fallen in love with the little beauty.

The boards are now all like the proverbial 'babies bum' and ready for their stain which will be applied tomorrow.

 

[Kevin McConville]

I'm sure my post is one of the ones that some feel was nothing more than an automatic defense of Festool.  The irony was deep down it was for the opposite reason that I said what I did.  I very much want people to be able to voice their concerns with the hope that Festool will take them to heart and rectify them and much like the boy who cried wolf I felt this post would dilute that message. I never said the OP didn't know how to use the tool or that the tool was great, I simply felt that the story as presented was difficult to accept.  That being the need for a sander I could use one handed and Festool was "faulty" and a "beast" and let me down but my Metabo is smooth as silk and I can use it one handed, why the OP didn't just use the one handed Metabo is beyond me. Possibly it was just the OPs way of expressing himself and nothing more.

Woodguy7 - I too get frustrated when no matter how bad something Festool is people still jump and say it's fine or the defect is non functional so what's your problem. Posts like the deck of the Kapex not being coplanar with the wings for example or the parallel guides not being the same length come to mind.  These to me were very real complaints and some of the posts saying everything was fine was hard for me to take as well. Some even said they had to use a file to open the slot in the parallel guides in order to calibrate them and even that was OK or to be expected, which to me would be completely unacceptable. I do own a Rotex but it's a 150 so I can't personally comment on the 125 but having said that, one of the reasons I bought the 150 was because my dealer said he thought it was a way better sander than the 125.  My RO150 is a wonderful tool and I use it for medium to heavy duty work but I have an ETS150 for my fine sanding. I'm 200 lbs (90 kg) and I wouldn't want to use my RO150 one handed very long. As a matter of fact I'm grateful to the FOG for posts like this one from Seth on the Auxiliary Front Handle for the Rotex Seth's Post on Aux Front Handle.  It is a fantastic addition to the tool and for me makes a huge difference (why they don't include a $1.00 piece of plastic with a $700 sander is a whole other rant).

 

[Scott B.]

I used to think the Rotex sanders were aggressive and a challenge to get to know.

And they are...in LOW grits. 80 grit or lower on a Rotex is material removal time.

Then, I spent a half hour with Brian Sedgeley, watching and listening to his polishing demo. And that sucker, in the same Rotex mode, but at higher grits and in a different situation, became the most graceful thing you ever saw. The results are absurd.

Sanding is situational.

I don't even know why there are orbital modes on Rotex sanders. I never use them anymore.

Rotex is not "aggressive mode". It is an eccentric pattern that is gear driven.

Aggression in sanding is mainly a function of grit and extraction, as long as the operator is not getting in the way.

As you were...

 

[Ed Bray]

Hi Ed,

I've seen some ugly lumber get turned into some nice furniture, but wow is that a nice turnaround!  Well-done.......

Thank you.

The boards were originally 12ft x 1.5in x 8in, in order to get them home I had to cut them in half. When I cut through the first board it was clear that the boards were so dense the water had only penetrated about 1/16"  on all edges. When planed most of the wood is lovely. And I have used a great number of the boards for all sorts of things  (from external doors/frames to small boxes),

Down to my last 20 boards now.

 

[woodguy7]

Wouldn't it be neat - My problem is when a new member comes on here with a "Genuine" problem & gets attacked for even contemplating to say something bad about Festool.  Some genuinely tried to help but others bluntly said "You are doing something wrong"  That makes my blood boil.

I love my RO150 but it is unpredictable.  I have many other sanders, mostly Festool but the RO is usually  the one i grab first.  If i need a fine sander i go for the ETS150/3

I need to stop reading this thread now as it just gets me wound up  [bite tongue].

Oh Ed, that really is some nice work on that table btw

 

[andy5405]

I think everyone needs to consider what a Rotex is capable of to put the whole debate into perspective. It would be a shame if this thread stopped people buying them. I have referred to mine as a beast but it is a beast that is easily tamed and I would never consider parting with it. It is only like that at times on the lower grits and when it is in aggressive or geared mode.

I used mine for the first time to restore some rather tired beech worktops that had a lot of water stains. I had done a few similar jobs in the past and used a belt sander to get the rate of stock removal I required. This was problematic as the belt sander could easily damage any material if it wasn't held completely flat and required massive concentration to avoid doing so. Big grooves in a timber surface are no fun! It was also a real pain on the corner joints where the grain changed direction as it would rip the timber really badly if I overshot the joint. That in turn required a lot of work with my Bosch orbital sander to rectify which again only really worked well with the grain.

So I fired up my Rotex 150 redy to attack these beech tops and was hoping for great things having spent a couple of years anticipating the purchase, reading reviews and watching videos. It was like going from a bicycle with two flat tyres to a Ferrari. It did require a little experimentation but nothing that wasn't easily intuitive and I had a finished beautiful looking top in a ridiculously short period of time and with no dust. It is without doubt the easiest thing I have done in years to achieve maximum impact. My customer was over the moon as she was really worried about dust and was amazed to see her finished tops in a dust free kitchen. I actually did the job as a freebie as I wanted to try out my new toy and had to really talk her into having it done as she was so concerned about dust. She was also considering replacing the whole kitchen as the tops were so grotty. After I'd sanded them, she fell in love with her kitchen again and saved thousands of pounds. This is an example of a Rotex producing a seriously (almost deliriously) happy customer and it took less than an hour.

I removed all the water stains and got a decent finish so easily. I didn't have to worry about the grain changing direction on the join as it was irrelevant and there is no way in a million years I would go back to my old setup. The Rotex does require some taming in geared mode but it is a real pussycat compared to a belt sander. Take a hypothetical situation where I had to sand an expensive veneer really aggressively with a coarse grit and my options were limited to a Rotex or a belt sander.  I wouldn't even consider it with a belt sander and I would give it a go with a Rotex, albeit on maximum concentration levels! I might threaten it first with a good thrashing from a tree branch in a Basil Fawlty style just to ensure it behaved. I must be losing the plot now as I even think that my sander is some sort of sentient being!

That's the point though, that is how good the sander is and it is why we often see ridiculous statements about Festool tools on here that should be reserved for the affection we feel towards pets or loved ones . People passing through must think a lot of FOG members have seriously lost the plot. However Festool do get things wrong and it is important to remain objective. There are without doubt members on here that need a metaphorical slap at times before they gain perspective. It's not a crime, it's just an indication of how good Festool is as a brand overall.

So back to where we started. I have the RO150. The thread is about the RO125. I haven't used the 125 but if I were to guess and translate the characteristics of my 150 pad to a smaller 125 pad it's not hard to imagine that it could be a bit of a handful. Evidence would seem to suggest that the bigger pad tames this particular model and makes it more stable.

All the stability issues I have mentioned only relate to use in geared or aggressive mode. On higher grits and in random orbit a toddler could control my Rotex. Compare the machine in any given use to what you would need to replace it. If you're finish sanding compare it to a finish sander, if you're rapidly removing stock compare it to a belt sander or similar machine.

I would echo the advice that has been repeated on here for years. If you only buy one Festool sander, buy a Rotex. If you're undecided between a 150 or 125, get the 150.

Also advice to anyone who is browbeaten by the FOG secret police. Just ask them when they last saw daylight and suggest they could benefit from some fresh air. You could also suggest that endlessly stacking your systainers and measuring the height of your stack is OK once a year. Stackfest is great but measuring your stack daily is probably indicative of underlying psychological problems. Most of all it you're smiling when you're typing, it is unlikely that anyone will take offence. Now where's my tape measure......

PS. When I refer to the FSP (FOG Secret Police) I am not referencing the mods in any way. They ostensibly police the forum and do so very well. I was just playfully suggesting that are a darker forces at work.......

 

[woodguy7]

Andy, well said  [smile]

 

[sae]

Andy, well said  [smile]

I disagree, toddlers shouldn't use power tools.

 

[Ed Bray]

Oh Ed, that really is some nice work on that table btw

Thanks.

Here are the Iroko boards I was sanding with the RO125 for the 3 seater bench I am making (from same stockpile as previously shown). They were sanded as stated with 60g Rot/Orb, 100g Rot/Orb and 180g Rot/Orb. They have all had one coat of Sikkens Cetol HLS plus stain (mahogany).

Over the next 4 days they will then be given 4 light coats of Sikkens Cetol Filter 7 (mahogany) for the finish.

 

[andy5405]

To- Woodn't it be nice.
Please read the post in its entirety before commenting, not once did i say it was faulty yes i said it was a beast and it was like entering a rodeo as a competitor. Yes the metabo can be run one handed But it is a 150mm and i required a smaller model ie 125mm. As mentioned i was trying to upgrade all my tools to festool. I am apowerful guy and can handle a 1200w belt sander one handed but not so with the rotex i am only stating my experiences with my rotex and for all you idiots that say its the operators fault can not be a festool problem then you need to see a doctor. With your reasoning then every crash, death is down to the operator/driver and not the vehicle. Says it all about you guys and really you should set up your own forum and leave this one to people with open minds.

I honestly think I must be reading a different thread as I see a lot of support for your opinion. I get the fact that you don't get on with the 125 and have mentioned it several times. There are undoubtedly people who don't agree with you but it is a forum and by definition it is an exchange of ideas. Those ideas are often different and that is the point of having a forum to share them. This thread may have started a bit one sided but as it has progressed it has provided a balanced view in my opinion.

So get rid of your 125, it didn't work out, maybe it's a lemon, no-one is offended. Accept that some people on here are verging on fanatical, that is the FOG, that is Festool. There are other Festool forums and it is the same. However I don't think your post helps as it is a general attack on the members on here, some of whom have supported your position. You have chosen to see only what you want to see and frankly it's disappointing. It also makes you no different to the very people you are criticising.

 

[Scott B.]

No need to kick dead horses about the op and his parting of ways with his sander.

But a general word to those who stumble upon this in the future...

Indeed a rotex sander requires a different technique than most any other sander you've used.

"Of course I know how to sand, I use tools all the time"...I've heard that a million times. Hand the guy a rotex, he proceeds to sand like it was dewalt, makita, metabo or Bosch. Which is like watching someone fall off a bridge.

Please, folks, don't be offended when a member suggests that your technique may needto change with rotex. Check egos. Old habits are hard to break.