RTS 400 "squiggles"

N

NBK

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Hello there,  a few months ago added the RTS 400 to our lineup.  At  first I was really impressed with the way it handled and appeared to be doing a great job.  This was on some sepelle that was too be ebonized and finished.  When we were in the clear coat phase we noticed these tight little "squiggle" lines running up the piece as you would see if something was caught between the pad and sander.  Kept checking but no apparent build up or debris.  Just let it go and moved on, was definitely not going to strip it all down.  Just recently I was with a friend who was doing some paint grade and noticed he had the same marks on his work and turns out he had been using a RTS 4oo also.  Then again today edge sanding some African Mahogany it was all over again when staining.  Problem is it does not show up until into the finish.  Any suggestions?  Thinking about just selling but would really love to be pleased with this sander.
Thanks
Nathan 
 
Nathan,

Would you be able to share a photo or two of what you're seeing?

I've not heard of this with the RTS, but let's see if we can figure out what's going on.

What grit progression are you using?

Are you using dust extraction and, if so, what's the suction level set to?

How are you moving the sander on the material? Linear in the direction of the squiggles or in some other pattern?

Shane
 
I will try and get some photos tomorrow.  As far as suctions goes both with and without but when the suction is on, it is  the lowest setting.  Grit progression is slow and steady, no jumping.  Direction is the same as the squiggles.    It really looks just like a paint booger mark when sanding down primers but on raw wood.  Like I said I will try and get some photos tomorrow.
 
Can you be more specific about the grits you use? Exactly which grits numbers start to finish?
 
Depending on the species and whether is was wide belted but usually starts 80,120,150,180,220 and then maybe a jump to 320.  Using Rubin 2. 
 
Try using the interface pad for the RTS 400.
I believe (although I haven't proven it) that these squiggles are from the corners or sides of the paper. Because of the form factor of the RTS I find it can be "tippy" left to right if pushed too aggressively.
For clear of stain grade, I always do a quick but thorough hand sanding with a foam backed paper.
Tim
 
Ive had them to , could be the break in period.

I get them with the interface pad to.

But then I started out with some very aggressive grits, like 40 or 60.

I thought they were due to technique.

I do like that little sander. Its so lite and easy to use.

Once I get the jumping and swirl marks thing straightened out, Ill use the heck out of it.
 
I just bought one myself (for work in a cabinet shop, inter-coat abrasion).

I was playing with it (new toy) and had it bucking and fighting, not gliding etc.

I understand this is a result of to hard a vacuum on the Dust extractor (at least that's what the video i watched said).

The only time i get "squiggles" or mars with sanders is when I'm applying too much pressure or don't go back over my starting point with paper after it's broken in.

Since I've been at the cabinet shop i've had to upgrade my optics (cheaters) and ad lights (headlamp) to discern subtle scratches or marks that my new boss will not accept. What flew on a floor is a no go on a cabinet (of course) but my ability to see at +50 is severely degraded and so the cheaters.

I'm wondering if there is a way to ad an "air leak" to the vacuum system. My CT 36 is too strong even on low. Maybe my midi with a older bag?

Any suggestions as to reducing the vacuum and the associated "bucking" ?

Thanks
 
Most of the Festool sanders seem to start to perform better after a breaking in period. The theory is that the new brushes in the motor are not seated properly. They need some run time to wear down and conform to the curved shape of the commutator.

A lot of folks (me included) will take that new sander , tie a rope securely to the body and hang it from a rafter in the shop and let it run for a few hours. Seems to be smoother after that.

IF you really decide you still need to lower the suction on the vac, you can stick a y adapter in and cover the unused section with something and poke a few holes in it. Although you really shouldn't need to.

http://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/hepa-dust-extractors/reducing-hose-sleeves/hose-sleeve-antistatic-y-adapter-with-blanking-plug-452898
 
Are the squiggles showing up with all grits?  When sanding finish between coats?  Are the squiggles uniform?  Are they all over the pad area or just in a couple of "tracks"?

Ward,

      If your Midi is older it will have less suction but if newer it will have nearly the same as the CT36.

Seth
 
Did you ever get your issues solved?  I find the suction too strong on my RTS 400 even on low as well.
 
This is a sore point with me.  I understand that UL listing and other factors mean that certain items are NAINA.  I may not like it but I understand it.  However, when Festool understands that there is an issue with a tool, designs a part to solve the problem, and then chooses to make it NAINA; that I have an issue with.  Why should people in NA be forced to live with this issue when there is a solution that is sold in other markets. 

Here is a link to a vacuum adapter specifically designed for the RTS-400, and other similar sanders, to reduce the suction so the sander doesn't "squiggle" even when the CT is turned all the way down.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/496112

[mad]
 
jbasen said:
This is a sore point with me.  I understand that UL listing and other factors mean that certain items are NAINA.  I may not like it but I understand it.  However, when Festool understands that there is an issue with a tool, designs a part to solve the problem, and then chooses to make it NAINA; that I have an issue with.  Why should people in NA be forced to live with this issue when there is a solution that is sold in other markets. 

Here is a link to a vacuum adapter specifically designed for the RTS-400, and other similar sanders, to reduce the suction so the sander doesn't "squiggle" even when the CT is turned all the way down.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/496112

[mad]
Click to expand...

I certainly learned something new today.  I wasn't aware that there was such an adaptor / solution available somewhere.

Thanks for posting that.

Peter
 
Peter Halle said:
jbasen said:
This is a sore point with me.  I understand that UL listing and other factors mean that certain items are NAINA.  I may not like it but I understand it.  However, when Festool understands that there is an issue with a tool, designs a part to solve the problem, and then chooses to make it NAINA; that I have an issue with.  Why should people in NA be forced to live with this issue when there is a solution that is sold in other markets. 

Here is a link to a vacuum adapter specifically designed for the RTS-400, and other similar sanders, to reduce the suction so the sander doesn't "squiggle" even when the CT is turned all the way down.

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/496112

[mad]
Click to expand...

I certainly learned something new today.  I wasn't aware that there was such an adaptor / solution available somewhere.

Thanks for posting that.

Peter
Click to expand...

So I am wondering - might it make sense to pick up a spare 27mm hose end and drill a few strategically placed holes in it to accomplish the same thing for the smaller sanders? I assume the DTS400 has the same issue, right?
 
wow said:
So I am wondering - might it make sense to pick up a spare 27mm hose end and drill a few strategically placed holes in it to accomplish the same thing for the smaller sanders? I assume the DTS400 has the same issue, right?
Click to expand...

And disassemble the hose end each time? No thanks.

Those hose ends aren't meant to be disassembled constantly. I've done it twice and the locking tabs look ready to give up.
 
So good news and bad news:

Bad news is the Bosch adapter won't fit on, it's probably around 50mm in diameter, so no quick $20 fix. There might be a series of adapters you could use, but I didn't have any handy to test it out.

Good news is the Bosch antistatic hose is a direct replacement, fits the tools like original, though you need a minute to sand off a locking tab on the vac side. I have the VH1635A, which is 35mm, 16 ft long. They make a VH1022 as well, which (as you might have guessed) is 10 ft long, 22mm. The smaller diameter might help with the aforementioned issue by itself, but both have the vacuum escape at the tool side as well. Both are rather inexpensive and there's $25 off $100 at most Bosch outlets through the end of the month.
 
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