Rumor mill says new Domino on the (far off?) horizon - what would you hope for?

[usernumber1]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true
=1157s

 

[squall_line]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

I was about to say that I just read through the patent a week or two ago, but now that I think about it a little more, it was probably the Zeta P2 patent that I was reading.

 

[Cheese]

For sure this is an interesting conversation for a lazy fall weekend  [smile] but I support the position of [member=652]JimH2[/member] and would prefer that Festool releases a completely different tool instead. I mean this tool was never supposed to be the Swiss Army Knife of tools so trying to conjure up "one Domino that makes everyone happy" is folly for a manufacturing firm that has limited resources. That's a task better undertaken by Milwaukee that has resources and money to burn.

Besides, I use the #4 & #5 Dominos a lot for window trim and storage boxes. If I find the need for deeper Dominos, I use the 700.

 

[Mr Speaker]

Not hindered by design constraints: I'd love it if the QA-DF 500 cross cut fence would automatically compensate for the width setting. The width setting affects the spacing and I would love it if it did not. Plus a setting where the cut is just a little wider, just 2 mm. And an LED. And overall lighter, I don't care for battery operation, to me it is a shop tool. It's not allowed to leave the premises.

Oh, and lastly a reliable way to set the domino in the exact middle of a board, so on the center line. And to detach all hoses and cables and crawl back into the systainer autonomously, so yes maybe a battery option.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Not hindered by design constraints: I'd love it if the QA-DF 500 cross cut fence would automatically compensate for the width setting. The width setting affects the spacing and I would love it if it did not. Plus a setting where the cut is just a little wider, just 2 mm. And an LED. And overall lighter, I don't care for battery operation, to me it is a shop tool. It's not allowed to leave the premises.

Oh, and lastly a reliable way to set the domino in the exact middle of a board, so on the center line. And to detach all hoses and cables and crawl back into the systainer autonomously, so yes maybe a battery option.

It does not, if you space mortises by their centers, as designed.

Practically speaking, putting mortises dead center in the stock is not a priority.

 

[ChuckM]

The topic of milling dead-centered mortises has been discussed many times in this Forum and elsewhere, including the benefits of not doing so. Suffice to say that the machine isn't designed to do so to start with. As long as the registration is against the fence using the reference faces, off-center or no is a non-issue.

Aiming for dead-centers, regardless of the method used, is extra work (and money such as buying an after-market product), plus material thickness is not always uniform even on the same board, let alone between boards. I recently came across that on a 7/16" furniture-grade plywood board (sold as 1/2"). The edge of one side was a hair thicker than the opposite edge.

 

[ChuckM]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

snip

According to that, SawStop patents should expire around 2026. Maybe we'll start to see some competitors' prototypes in a couple of years or so. Even with all new saws equipped with the finger-saving technology, it'd take many decades before serious table saw finger and hand injuries are prevented as old saws will still be around for some time.

As a SawStop user since 2006 or so, I've always hoped that such technology will be adopted by every saw manufacturer, like airbags for cars.

 

[Coen]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

snip

According to that, SawStop patents should expire around 2026. Maybe we'll start to see some competitors' prototypes in a couple of years or so. Even with all new saws equipped with the finger-saving technology, it'd take many decades before serious table saw finger and hand injuries are prevented as old saws will still be around for some time.

As a SawStop user since 2006 or so, I've always hoped that such technology will be adopted by every saw manufacturer, like airbags for cars.

Well, in some cases... the more safety features present... the more risk is taken by the users and the bottomline stays at the same amount of lives and limbs lost.

Just like newer "safer" cars with the insanely small windows, making the view around the car almost as bad as when driving a tank... great when you get T-boned. However, that is sometimes 200% offset by the number of toddlers crushed with the excuse "I didn't see him/her" ... even though the % of toddlers in society keeps decreasing as well...

 

[ChuckM]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

snip

According to that, SawStop patents should expire around 2026. Maybe we'll start to see some competitors' prototypes in a couple of years or so. Even with all new saws equipped with the finger-saving technology, it'd take many decades before serious table saw finger and hand injuries are prevented as old saws will still be around for some time.

As a SawStop user since 2006 or so, I've always hoped that such technology will be adopted by every saw manufacturer, like airbags for cars.

Well, in some cases... the more safety features present... the more risk is taken by the users and the bottomline stays at the same amount of lives and limbs lost.

Snip

In some cases, but not in the case of finger-saving feature  unless you can provide credible research or data source that supports your opinion.

 

[Coen]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

snip

According to that, SawStop patents should expire around 2026. Maybe we'll start to see some competitors' prototypes in a couple of years or so. Even with all new saws equipped with the finger-saving technology, it'd take many decades before serious table saw finger and hand injuries are prevented as old saws will still be around for some time.

As a SawStop user since 2006 or so, I've always hoped that such technology will be adopted by every saw manufacturer, like airbags for cars.

Well, in some cases... the more safety features present... the more risk is taken by the users and the bottomline stays at the same amount of lives and limbs lost.

Snip

In some cases, but not in the case of finger-saving feature  unless you can provide credible research or data source that supports your opinion.

No I can't, not for this specific issue. But in general the trend is... the more safer things get... the more unsafe practices become common.

Like with unguarded railway crossings; the % of railway crossings that is unguarded in the Netherlands is insanely low and they have been removing or upgrading them all over the place... yet the amount of deadly collisions on railway crossings decreases way way way slower. Why; people think they don't exist anymore and run the risk... While in the UK, where the % of railway crossings that is unguarded is insanely higher... the total death toll is... LOWER. Not only relative, but even absolute (UK ~= 5x NL in population).

And in a few years, when no unguarded crossings remain in this country... probably about the same amount of Dutch people will still die at unguarded railway crossings... while riding in Germany... and it will 100% be a behavior issue.

Just like we (the Dutch) have hardened all our ATM's... so now "our" (well, let's not go down the non-western migrant rabbit hole this time) criminals rob German ATMs in the border region.

When my grandma kept forgetting she put milk on the cooktop... we installed a smoke alarm after a few smoky events. She called it the 'kitchen timer' and the number of times heating milk resulted in smoke increased... a LOT.

 

[Cheese]

The topic of milling dead-centered mortises has been discussed many times in this Forum and elsewhere, including the benefits of not doing so. Suffice to say that the machine isn't designed to do so to start with. As long as the registration is against the fence using the reference faces, off-center or no is a non-issue.

Aiming for dead-centers, regardless of the method used, is extra work (and money such as buying an after-market product), plus material thickness is not always uniform even on the same board, let alone between boards. I recently came across that on a 7/16" furniture-grade plywood board (sold as 1/2"). The edge of one side was a hair thicker than the opposite edge.

I agree and if you can notice a difference if the boards are a "hair off", and you can, the Domino would have to be adjustable to under .001" because the thickness of the average hair is .002". That means the adjustment mechanism would have to incorporate a screw adjustment so that it could be easily/repeatedly adjusted. That's a lot of extra paraphernalia for zero gain.

I learned the hard way, a long time ago, to avoid the "exactly centered Domino" condition.

 

[Ron B]

speaking of patents, just watched this video with a patent lawyer. he mentions that he was unable to locate the festool domino patent in North America, which is very surprising if actually true

snip

When my grandma kept forgetting she put milk on the cooktop... we installed a smoke alarm after a few smoky events. She called it the 'kitchen timer' and the number of times heating milk resulted in smoke increased... a LOT.

That is what makes me nervous about driverless cars. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I believe a "DF500 R" is the most likely result. The time is ripe for that - is one of the last tools not having the bayonet hose connection.

We should think of the OF 1010 R update. Nothing revolutionary but still a better tool than the original OF 1010.

- the paddles can be improved for sure, e.g. allowing their calibration
- the thickness setting can go the way of the XL, with an 18 mm setting added while at it
- a (removable) XL-style handle is certainly feasible
- I can see a centering laser or a shadow-line with light added
- possibly some additional accessories mounting options

Either way, definitely do not see the space for a "DF600" style product. The XL sells very little and there would be no point in it when there is already an overlap at the 10 mm end of the spectrum.

My assumption is that this new model would eclipse the original, not be an addition to the line-up.
The old OF1010 went away when the new model came out.

 

[cpw]

Not hindered by design constraints: I'd love it if the QA-DF 500 cross cut fence would automatically compensate for the width setting. The width setting affects the spacing and I would love it if it did not. Plus a setting where the cut is just a little wider, just 2 mm. And an LED. And overall lighter, I don't care for battery operation, to me it is a shop tool. It's not allowed to leave the premises.

Oh, and lastly a reliable way to set the domino in the exact middle of a board, so on the center line. And to detach all hoses and cables and crawl back into the systainer autonomously, so yes maybe a battery option.

It does not, if you space mortises by their centers, as designed.

Practically speaking, putting mortises dead center in the stock is not a priority.

Can you explain?  AFAIK, the cross stops can only reference off the edge of the prior mortise using the pin that drops in.  So if you want to e.g. have two cabinet panels and use the cross stops to run down the line tight on one side and loose on the other panel you can't actually do it.  You need the mortises to be the same width on both.

Separately, my domino DF500 has the bayonet dust connector already.  Purchased ~2017.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Not hindered by design constraints: I'd love it if the QA-DF 500 cross cut fence would automatically compensate for the width setting. The width setting affects the spacing and I would love it if it did not. Plus a setting where the cut is just a little wider, just 2 mm. And an LED. And overall lighter, I don't care for battery operation, to me it is a shop tool. It's not allowed to leave the premises.

Oh, and lastly a reliable way to set the domino in the exact middle of a board, so on the center line. And to detach all hoses and cables and crawl back into the systainer autonomously, so yes maybe a battery option.

It does not, if you space mortises by their centers, as designed.

Practically speaking, putting mortises dead center in the stock is not a priority.

Can you explain?  AFAIK, the cross stops can only reference off the edge of the prior mortise using the pin that drops in.  So if you want to e.g. have two cabinet panels and use the cross stops to run down the line tight on one side and loose on the other panel you can't actually do it.  You need the mortises to be the same width on both.

Separately, my domino DF500 has the bayonet dust connector already.  Purchased ~2017.

Mr. Speaker didn’t mention using cross stops and I almost never use the myself so the issue you mention didn’t occur to me.

I always dry fit the pieces prior to mortising and at that point it only takes a moment to make marks across the joint and when making wider mortises on one of the pieces aligning the machine the mark is trivial. That is, you don’t have to get the machine dead on the mark since there is plenty of slack in the actual fit.

It seems the Festool designers took a lot of inspiration from the Mafell doweler. The cross stops make sense on the dowel machine but not so much when the size of the “hole” can change so much.

 

[luvmytoolz]

The cross stop is the only tool I've found utterly useless for me and the way I work.

 

[ChuckM]

The cross stop is the only tool I've found utterly useless for me and the way I work.

Sorry to hear this. The blame lies with Festool, which has done a bad job of providing no user manual to show how to use it. Check out Festool Live Ep 81 (start at 16.00 unless you want to waste 16 minutes of your time... up to 28:40) to see how to use the cross stop properly.

I built this steam box using the cross stop without marking one single placement line:
[attachimg=1]

The cross stop will be a huge time-saver if you have several rail and stile doors to make.

 

[Cheese]

I built this steam box using the cross stop without marking one single placement line:

Interesting steam box Chuck, what projects do you use it for? Furniture I'm thinking?

 

[ChuckM]

Cheese,

I have a lamp shade made of bent wood strips in mind. The box is built, to be used with the Earlex steamer, but the year goes by like the wind, so it'll be a project for the spring.

 

[Mr Speaker]

The topic of milling dead-centered mortises has been discussed many times in this Forum and elsewhere, including the benefits of not doing so. Suffice to say that the machine isn't designed to do so to start with. As long as the registration is against the fence using the reference faces, off-center or no is a non-issue.

Aiming for dead-centers, regardless of the method used, is extra work (and money such as buying an after-market product), plus material thickness is not always uniform even on the same board, let alone between boards. I recently came across that on a 7/16" furniture-grade plywood board (sold as 1/2"). The edge of one side was a hair thicker than the opposite edge.

To be fair, it was an open question on what I(/we) would like to see. My desire for centerline holes comes from the regular mistakes I make when making a staircase  . And because in 50% of the time I make half the cuts with my CNC, which means I make 6 x 20 mm cuts with the CNC and the other part with the domino. And yes I realize how the first half of that sentence reads.