RUST!

[rmwarren]

I recently moved to the coast and am experiencing high, recurring humidity for the first time. I am battling surface rust forming on all my tools. My current shop is not connected to the house, I have heat that I run only when working and we get below freezing during the winter and over 80 degrees in the summer, all of which just exacerbates the issue.

I am originally from the desert and have no clue how to deal with the moisture and condensation cycles caused by heat/cold/humidity. When I heat the shop (and consequently the tools) & then leave and let it cool off, I get condensation of the moisture out of the air onto everything. I have some back the next day to find all my machine tools covered in dew.

Can anyone shed light on this? I have to have to do it, but do I need to apply some protectant on a recurring basis? I try to avoid putting anything on my cutting tools out of concern that it will effect finishes on the wood they are used upon. I am less concerned about my machine tools,  most of those surfaces don't actually contact the wood much.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I'm just North of you and from my experience, I only see two choices.  Keep the tools in a conditioned space or coat them with oil or silicone based products that you'll need to clean off with lacquer thinner before using on wood products to prevent contamination.  You could try the Dri-Lube teflon coating spray that I haven't found affects my wood finishing, available at the big box stores.

 

[Theshipstore]

RMW   I use a product here on Long Island called Corrosion Block from a company called Lear Chemical.
I have found either wiping it on or spraying it on my tools and tabletops for my saws and shapers work quite well.
I spray it on let it sit for about a minute or two and then wipe of with a clean rag.
I have found no discernible residue on any of project that would cause me concern.
Before finding this product I was a fan of Boeshield on my tools.
I found this to be better in my use for rust protection.
Hope this might help

 

[AdamM]

Paste Wax on the cast iron helps.   Just be sure to rub it out good and you shouldn't have problems with affecting the wood.  I've also heard T-9 Boeshield suggested a lot.  I tried it a few times and didn't really care for it.

As far as the condensation, you get into trouble when the surface of your tools is cooler then the ambient air in the room.  Warm air hold more moisture then cool air so it has to dump the moisture when getting cooled off near the tools, thus moisture ends up on the tools.  So the key is to keep the tools warmer then the air.  A good way to do this is with infrared heat.  Infrared heat warms the objects in the room and then relies on those objects to warm the air.  I think ceiling mounted ones work best as you can set them up to point at the tool clusters you are most worried about.

Another trick are these capsules that you can throw in your tool drawers.  They emit a chemical that adheres to the tools and protects them.  Here is a random example from Woodcraft:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021193/25924/Zerust-VC21-VCI-Capsule.aspx

 

[mouppe]

I encountered some surface rust on my smoothing plane a few months ago. I took it off with a scotch pad. Now I wipe down all my planes with a small amount of jojoba oil after using them. No rust since.

 

[Guy Ashley]

I sharpen all my cutting edges with either a Tormek, DMT diamond stones or Japanese water stones.

Once finished I lightly coat them with Camilla Oil which can be purchased from any reputable hand tool supplier here so I am sure you can get it over your side of the pond.

It has been used for centuries by the Japanese as a rust inhibitor and I have never known it cause a problem with finishing.

Also if you keep your chisels in a box of some form throw a few of those silica gel sachets that you sometimes get in packaging next to them.

A final point I heat my workshop with a wood burner (dry heat) but years ago had a couple of propane gas heaters and they created a heck of a lot of condensation and a lot of light rust on machine beds.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

No problem RMW, next move come on out to New Mexico.  Its 2 percent humidity today.  You see old cars on the road with the paint peeled off, but the sheet metal is still bright and shiny.  Only problem is that there's not much in the way of trees out here either [embarassed].

 

[rmwarren]

Thanks for the input, I think I will try the Corrosion Block on the machine surfaces, I found it locally at West Marine and my experience is the stuff used on boats generally works. I have see the Camilla oil I think on the Japan Woodworker site so I will give that a try also for saws and blades.

Jesse - New Mexico would be my #1 choice, somewhere out along the Rio Grande near Taos preferably, or further northwest towards Four Corners, awesome areas. I grew up in Nevada and spent my pre-marriage days following hundreds of miles of dirt road to wherever it lead me, all across NV/UT/AZ/CA and sometimes NM. Marriage/in-laws has me grounded in NJ for the time being.

Further on the relocation from NV to the east coast, when I moved east and my heavy maple workbench was re-introduced to humidity it literally ripped the top apart, the bread-boarded ends ended up about 1/4" to 3/8" shorter than the rest of the top, which is about 30"+ wide.  [mad] I had to largely disassemble it, cut a few pieces down and reassemble. PITA.

 

[spikfot]

No problem RMW, next move come on out to New Mexico.  Its 2 percent humidity today.  You see old cars on the road with the paint peeled off, but the sheet metal is still bright and shiny.   Only problem is that there's not much in the way of trees out here either [embarassed].

The A.C. is not much good for the tools either.

 

[tiralie]

RMW:
I use Boeshield T-9 http://boeshield.com/
While it is waxy it hasn't affected the finish on my projects.
I often work outside with my tools in the summer and then bring them into an air conditioned space and this keeps the rust down.
Tim

 

[rmwarren]

Thanks Tim. Read the feedback on Amazon and it was consistently good and, best of all, it ships free with one-click. Whenever I am deciding between competing stuff the availably from Amazon is often the tie-breaker.

I ordered a small squeeze bottle to try it out and also their rust remover to clean the posts on my planer. It was in storage for a year while we were building the house, now it is really hard to adjust up and down.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

 

[Swingman]

Live on the Gulf Coast so deal with the possibility of rust on shop tools constantly. IME, unless you want to keep the AC on 24/7, don't bother. A fan circulating the air 24/7 will be just as effective and cheaper, as will covering your tools with a breathable cloth made for the purpose during the times of expected temp/RH changes. The idea is to keep condensation from forming on tools surfaces in a period of high humidity relative to the surface temperature of your tools,  a fan and/or cover will do the trick most of the time.

The absolute best protection for your cast iron surfaces during these periods is "TopCote", bar none. There is simply nothing better! Keep seeing folks here recommend products with silicone ... don't fall for it. You do NOT want to use products containing even trace amounts of silicone in a woodshop PERIOD!

 

[jmbfestool]

http://www.meaco.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MJE16VX%2DE1

It says they are for Double garage or large workshop

???

Dont know how big your work shop is but if it is very large you could have a area where you could store your tools and have a dehumidifier.  

I am one who couldnt be bothered to keep coating my tools with stuff and then cleaning them every time! I would like a simple flick of a switch solution.  

Making your windows and doors draft proof in your shop  so when your all locked up the dehumidifier can do its job well.

JMB

 

[rmwarren]

JMB,

The new shop is going to be 12' by 20' which is as much remaining land coverage as I am allowed, this is a beach community and our lot is about 6,250 SF. We are shoehorning it in at that, but that was my trade off then we made the move. I left behind a huge but not well constructed shop, had to sell the Unisaw (which I had set up with extensions and overall it was 84" wide and about 60" deep) because I knew I would never have room for it. This is actually what got me started on Festool, I bought the TS 55 (along with a Dewalt contractor saw) to replace the big saw. If I knew then what I know now I would have skipped the big saw from the beginning.

I do plan on building a REAL building for the first time, i.e. something more than the garages I have used in the past. I am tired of feeling like I am working in a shed. Good lighting, running water, painted walls, a wood floor and even insulation and heat - I can't wait!

I may try the dehumidifier route, I have always had the perception that they were energy hogs but that may not be accurate, I have to do some research. Unfortunately Mitsubishi is not sold in the US, but I am sure there are plenty of models that are.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Theshipstore]

Guy  I have too agree with you on the propane heater and condensation...Boy I had an issue intil I stared to set the timer on Jet Air Filtration System to remain on for at least two hours after I shut the heater off. This kept the air moving and actually prevented the rusting and condensation build up. I have also started to cover my machine tops with a large terry cloth towel and this too has helped considerably

 

[josephgewing]

I have had some success in preventing rust with Dry Coat and Top Coat.  I spray on a coat and let it dry.  No need to wipe anything off the tools either at the time of spraying or when using the tools later. [smile]

Joe

 

[Mavrik]

I've found sharing a woodwork shop with a laundry has its challenges ...

 

[rmwarren]

I've found sharing a woodwork shop with a laundry has its challenges ...

Sawdust in your shorts?

 

[leakyroof]

Maybe I missed it, but what type of heater do you run in the shop?  Propane seems to be the worst offender at adding humidity or moisture to a shop setting, then causing rust.
Plus1 on the TopCote and the Boeshield. I have a basement shop that has wide humidity swings, and some water seepage through the very old foundation in places with heavy rainfall. No rust issues to speak of once I started a program with the above products for all my cast iron tops, and using Camellia Oil for all my hand tools.
I share space with the washers and dryers, and the heating is radiator/hot water for the 2 floors above the basement, but no heater in the basement.  I have, and have not installed[ [embarassed]], one of the infrared type electric heaters that some else posted about.  Temp range is 50 as a low, and 70 as a high in the basement, but, I don't have the extra headache of a coastal region with saltwater, just Lake Michigan a few miles East.

 

[rmwarren]

leakyroof - totally agree about the problem with gas heat, I had an un-vented unit in the house itself when we first moved in before the addition/renovation, it added a ton of humidity to the air.

Currently I have a rented shop, basically a pole building with metal siding and concrete floor, with a small electric forced air heater (came with the shop) and a small overhead electric radiant tube heater. between the 2 they will bring the temp up from below freezing to 50+ in perhaps 3 minutes, then with a ceiling fan it stays pretty comfortable.

I THINK I will go with the radiant heat in the new shop, there was an article a few years back about the Enerjoy workshop panels and I like that option.

Some of the issue I noticed was while tools spent 12 months in totally unconditioned storage, when I pulled them out I had a lot of surface rust. I have to assume the summertime air was the culprit, everything heated up during the day and then the moisture condensed when the temps dropped during the night.