Sander Advice

[SS Teach]

I was able to borrow a Ro 125 and use it for about one week. It was very bouncy. I ended up with the Ro 150, much smoother. It is still a two handed sander though. If you haven't already, watch some YouTube videos on using a Rotex sander. They are very helpful. If you don't have a CT you should get one. Your lungs will appreciate it. While I don't have a new ETC sander from everything I read on FOG indicates they are superior sanders and with the proper sandpaper remove material at a good pace. Remember you have 30 days to try a sander at least in the states, don't like it take it back. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[Holmz]

... Its pointless trying to save cost on abrasives and sticking to the same pad size and then getting the larger unit and then I don't use it because its uncomfortable or I damage my wrist more in the long run which will cost more than sandpaper. Its just sandpaper.

Something else that crossed my mind today, if Festool are launching new brushless eccentric sanders of existing models, how long until a brushless rotex is launched? Perhaps it is worth waiting to see what they have on the horizon first?

Brushless will not change the bounciness of the RO-xx sanders,

Ergonomically the ETS is as good as Festool gets, and essentially the same the as the Mirka from which it may have a design lineage. If you need faster removal then use a lower grit # paper and/or a larger sander stroke. So /5 in FT or in Mirka and Rupes there is a 7.5 and a  9 and 12-mm respectively. The 5-mm seems good to me, but I have not tried 9, and 12-mm.

A grinder or rotary sander like a metabo with a flap disk, or RAS will haul off material, and may be easier on the wrist. The just take more force and generally do not bound like a kangaroo.

Basically we all know that the ETS/EC is ergonomically good.
Many claim that they can tame a RO-125.
I could not see it being obvious as to how I could tame it; I decided against an RO... and my wrists are in good shape.
YRMV

 

[Xoncention]

Brushless will not change the bounciness of the RO-xx sanders,
Ergonomically the ETS is as good as Festool gets, and essentially the same the as the Mirka from which it may have a design lineage.

For me, I found that using the side screw in handle a better option to balance the operation.  Sure, it has the top grip that you can use and for many operations this works well.  These sanders are essentially not "palm" sanders - they have way too much torque to safely balance under your single hand - at least in the primary stages of sanding.  There is a sweet spot between material removal, pressure and balance; and only experience will provide intuitive feedback to the operator.  8)

 

[Holmz]

Fully agree with you [member=56915]Xoncention[/member]  However the OP mentioned wrist problems. The ETC is pretty much stupid proof in operation. There is no great learning curve other than maybe suction and speed setting. There is certainly no magic technique required, and that may be important for his wrist(s).
In a SFA or OSHA sense that can be as important to him as dust mitigation is to others.

 

[Jmacpherson]

I've read and heard that the RO 125 is the hardest model to control, would it have something to do with the pad diameter?
IE. The 150mm pad has more surface area and therefore absorbs more of the power/torque than the 125mm pad. There is more space to distribute it.

It isn't the vibration as much as weight that affect my wrist. Horizontal sanding generally doesn't bother my wrist.
Vertical does if the sander has enough weight to it.

I'm right handed and it is my right wrist that gives trouble. For 2-handed sanders I hold the body/grip in my right hand and the head in my left. Perhaps I need to swap that around for a RO 150 for vertical sanding, adjust my grip/technique. Not sure if it would help.

How aggressive is the Delta mode on the RO 90? Even though its only 90mm, it is the smallest and lightest Rotex, might be a good companion to the ETS 150 while maintaining that "rotex" ability. Its size also allows it to get into many places a 125 or 150 won't.

 

[leakyroof]

I've read and heard that the RO 125 is the hardest model to control, would it have something to do with the pad diameter?
IE. The 150mm pad has more surface area and therefore absorbs more of the power/torque than the 125mm pad. There is more space to distribute it.

It isn't the vibration as much as weight that affect my wrist. Horizontal sanding generally doesn't bother my wrist.
Vertical does if the sander has enough weight to it.

I'm right handed and it is my right wrist that gives trouble. For 2-handed sanders I hold the body/grip in my right hand and the head in my left. Perhaps I need to swap that around for a RO 150 for vertical sanding, adjust my grip/technique. Not sure if it would help.

How aggressive is the Delta mode on the RO 90? Even though its only 90mm, it is the smallest and lightest Rotex, might be a good companion to the ETS 150 while maintaining that "rotex" ability. Its size also allows it to get into many places a 125 or 150 won't.

. Delta mode with the RO 90 is nothing like Rotex mode.
Not sure why so many of us feel it's easier to control the larger Rotex over the RO 125, but there you have it.... [embarassed]

 

[Cheese]

Well this was a bit lengthy read.. [smile] took me almost 2 hours to read in between watching football. [eek]  Let's just hope I remembered all of the pertinent points. [tongue]

Just as a baseline, I own and use a Rotex 125, an ETS 125, an ETS EC 125 and a Rotex 90. I also use other Festool sanders but that's not pertinent to this conversation.

As you've described your potential frequent sanding needs, I don't really think you need a Rotex unit. You're not removing multiple layers of paint or catalyzed finishes from a deck or sanding off a coating on cement. You're simply trying to remove an oxidized/weathered coating (probably oil based because of its age) from wood. I'd first look at the grit size you're using and then at the type of grit you're using. Both will have the largest impact on your sanding success. Using 320 Granat on a RO 125 will not remove material as fast as using 36/40 Granat on an ETS EC 125.

You mention wrist issues...the RO 125 will not help that situation in Rotex mode, and that's the reason you purchased it, for the Rotex mode. I have NO track record with a RO 150...but I think there is some spillover here.

You mention that the 150 sander seems too large on some of the projects you may be using it for, I concur, that's the reason I went with the 125 series.

My recommendation would be to purchase an ETS EC 125 along with a 150 pad. This probably voids the warranty and that may make you uneasy. However as you've already stated, all 3 sanders appear to be "basically" the same (correct) and that should alleviate some of your angst. The 150 pad WILL fit on a 125, the 125 pad WILL NOT fit on a 150, this was by design. I also believe the 125 is $100 cheaper than the 150, so you can have the versatility of 2 different sized sanders at $50 less than the price of a single ETS EC 150 sander.

The ETS ES 125/150 sander is fairly aggressive for a finish sander, it's my go-to sander every day. I find that after purchasing the ETS EC 125/150 hybrid, I tend to gravitate to using the RO a lot less often. 

I'd say try the EC 125/150 combo and see if that doesn't probably meet 70-90% of your current sanding needs. If you need something more, re-evaluate and maybe consider the RO 90. Although it can also act like the local "bully on the block" from time to time.

 

[Holmz]

The -125 is /3 and the -150 is /5 stroke.
Whether that makes difference for the OP is TBD.

The Mirka has the 125/150 combo in 5-mm stroke, but some do not like the paddle and prefer a switch. And some prefer 3-mm stroke.
Also I would have no hesitation in recommending an ETS/EC... It is pretty good, but I would still probably run Mirka screens on an ETS/EC.

And... in the US on 110v and with the warranty and 30 day trial, the ETS/EC is probably a better choice... For 230v it is harder to decide.  Even in /3 it is not like the sander is jumping and vibrating, so a few extra minutes will probably be easy enough on the wrist. So [member=44099]Cheese[/member] brings up another good option. It is also light enough to use vertically on a wall with ease (The Mrs. has done it ).

 

[Jmacpherson]

I prefer the /5 simply because it removes more material faster and therefore saves time. The finish it produces is fine for my needs.
I'm not really keen on voiding the warranty by attaching an accessory that isn't intended for a tool.

I'm 95% sure that I'm going to go and get the EC 150/5.

I watched Peter's review of the 150/3 on his channel and he was sanding a frame of some sorts which was round about the size of what I would sand on.
With correct clamping, I'm sure smaller pieces will be fine.

I can then tryout the 150/5 and granat on my stubborn piece of furniture and see what happens. If no joy then I can re-open the Rotex project and if all goes well then I can look at complimenting the 150/5 with a DTS at a later stage.

I just have to practice some self-control when I see the RO 150 on the shelf and not think along the lines of 10min sanding (irritate my wrist) or 60min sanding (in total ergonomic comfort) and fall into the quick and nasty trap. [smile]

Thanks to everyone for their input, feedback, suggestions and opinions. Appreciate it.

 

[sofa_king_rad]

After reading all this, i either got overwhelmed with all the feedback and confused myself, or I'm just confused.

I was hoping to find the answer. I have a Rotex RO 150 and wanted to get a finishing sander to compliment it. It's great, but for small pieces, especially that just need a light touch, it's too much. But i have limited experience so far.

 

[rst]

ETS EC 150 would be the logical choice as it uses the same size discs you are already using.  I have most of Festools sanders including an ETS 150 that I bought used.  The EC is magnificent and a breeze to use.

 

[Stone Message]

After reading all this, i either got overwhelmed with all the feedback and confused myself, or I'm just confused.

I was hoping to find the answer. I have a Rotex RO 150 and wanted to get a finishing sander to compliment it. It's great, but for small pieces, especially that just need a light touch, it's too much. But i have limited experience so far.

Put as simply as that you need the ETS EC 150/3. It takes the same paper as the RO150.

Peter

 

[Holmz]

After reading all this, i either got overwhelmed with all the feedback and confused myself, or I'm just confused.

I was hoping to find the answer. I have a Rotex RO 150 and wanted to get a finishing sander to compliment it. It's great, but for small pieces, especially that just need a light touch, it's too much. But i have limited experience so far.

Put as simply as that you need the ETS EC 150/3. It takes the same paper as the RO150.

Peter

In terms of sharing paper that makes a lot sense.

Another complimentary sander could be a 1/2 sheet sander, like the RS2.

 

[leakyroof]

After reading all this, i either got overwhelmed with all the feedback and confused myself, or I'm just confused.

I was hoping to find the answer. I have a Rotex RO 150 and wanted to get a finishing sander to compliment it. It's great, but for small pieces, especially that just need a light touch, it's too much. But i have limited experience so far.

Put as simply as that you need the ETS EC 150/3. It takes the same paper as the RO150.

Peter

  Yes...3mm orbit to smooth out 5mm orbit of the Rotex  Random Orbit mode.. [thumbs up]

 

[Holmz]

It totally depends on what he is doing.
If it is sheet goods, or anything expected to be flat as well as smooth, then a way to flatten it makes sense.
I would be inclined to also consider a belt sander with the sanding frame as way to get the material to be flat.

I rarely go beyond 240 or 320 and a /5 seems to look OK from a distance.
But in terms of smooth, then yes a ETS/EC-150 takes the same paper and makes sense.

A rubber sanding block or the festool vacuum hand pad to follow up in linear strokes from the RO-150 work, would require very little to "finish it".

 

[Grakat]

Hi there

I would also agree with the 150/3 sentiment. It takes the same paper as the Rotex but can carry on where the Rotex finishes off. Then get the other sanders as the need arises.

 

[Holmz]

Respectfully, how can that be?
The RO sanders are touted as the bestest "do it all" sanders... Rough through to finish, rotary, as well as the corner attachment.

Now we need a finish sander to follow the do it all RO?
I could see it if it was a RAS.

But I also agree that the papers fit.

it just is more similar than disimilar.

 

[Jmacpherson]

I just purchased my ETS EC 150/5 which came with 1x sheet of 80gr Granat.

I've ordered some 60 and 80gr Granat through my dealer. They only carry Rubin/Brilliant on hand at all times so I stocked up on the Rubin.

Once I pickup the Granat, I'll have another crack at the futon and then provide some feedback here.

 

[Jmacpherson]

Collected my Granat 60 and 80 grit paper yesterday from the store.
Pouring with rain here today, if the weather improves might give it a try with my left hand over the weekend and will let everyone know how it goes.

On a personal note, seeing an orthopaedic hand surgeon next week Tuesday to sort my wrist out once and for all.

I do have a question based on some recent and older posts, since Granat has been launched is there even a need to use Rubin anymore?
A lot of users here seem to use it on bare wood  instead of its intended use according to Festool?

 

[leakyroof]

Collected my Granat 60 and 80 grit paper yesterday from the store.
Pouring with rain here today, if the weather improves might give it a try with my left hand over the weekend and will let everyone know how it goes.

On a personal note, seeing an orthopaedic hand surgeon next week Tuesday to sort my wrist out once and for all.

I do have a question based on some recent and older posts, since Granat has been launched is there even a need to use Rubin anymore?
A lot of users here seem to use it on bare wood  instead of its intended use according to Festool?

. Usually Rubin is still cheaper than Granat so if you don't need a coated Abrasive like Granat for just raw wood sanding,  you can save money.
However, as the do-it-all Abrasive for many people particularly commercial users who love being able to lower their stocking of supplies when they can, Granat has become THE Abrasive they load up on. So much so that sales of it affect other Abrasives in Festool's line. Witness the loss of Brilliant 2 and Cristal.