Sander and dust extractor for residential painting contractor

[westcoastpainter]

Hello,

I recently found this forum while doing searches about Festool products.

I’ve been doing a lot of research on sanders and dust extractors for use as a painting contractor. I’ve narrowed it down to a few choices, but would like to get some additional feedback.

We’re a small company that mainly does residential repaints, both interior and exterior with the interior work being a mix of empty and furnished spaces. I’m sure once we enter the Festool world we will add on a few more sanders, but for now the main concern is for sanding previously painted walls.

We currently have a Bosch 5 inch random orbital sander attached a regular shop vac that is used to sand any drywall patching we have done and previous bumps, drips, sags and excessive orange peel texture in the previous paint finish.

I am leaning towards the Midi dust extractor. The larger dust extractors seem like they might be too cumbersome for working in furnished homes. I don’t think we would need a larger capacity dust collection anyway.

Since the budget only allows for one sander at this time I am leaning towards the Festool ETS EC 150/3 or 150/5 with the thought that the 6 inch diameter would allow us to go over the walls faster. Unless someone has reason they feel this is not a suitable choice.

I’ve watched youtube videos and done a lot of reading including the “sander guide” link provided on here, but one bit of information leads me to the 150/3 and then something else to the 150/5. Am I just splitting hairs on this? I’m open to other suggestions if someone has an option they think would be more suitable.

Thank you

 

[afish]

I your looking for something to sand large walls I would be looking real hard at the new planex hopefully coming soon.  If you cant wait the Mirka leros would be first choice.  The 9 inch pad will cover the wall/ceiling surface much faster and there will be no or little need for bending over or getting on a ladder.  That and a DTS for getting into corners and trim would be a great partner to the planex 2.0

 

[westcoastpainter]

I your looking for something to sand large walls I would be looking real hard at the new planex hopefully coming soon.  If you cant wait the Mirka leros would be first choice.  The 9 inch pad will cover the wall/ceiling surface much faster and there will be no or little need for bending over or getting on a ladder.  That and a DTS for getting into corners and trim would be a great partner to the planex 2.0

I looked at the planex but have hesitations about it. The first being the cost. That setup would be almost twice as much as what I was looking at. If I understand correctly you are supposed to use the Planex with the CT 36 E AC Cleantec dust extractor. Or is that only when using it for new drywall sanding? If I'm sanding a previously painted surface can I use it with the midi dust extractor?

My other hesitation is due to the size and angle it is held at the wall. At least half of our work being in furnished spaces I think in many cases we would not have the room to use the Planex.

 

[AlexThePalex]

What materials are your previously painted walls made of. Wood, drywall or plaster?

I think the ETS 150/5 would be the best allround choice for you, covers the most erea. For wood on exterior walls I would recommend the Rotex 150 though, that one makes quick work of them. But inside, on drywall and plaster, it is messy because the dust collection with those materials is not that good due to the sander's power.

The Mini and Midi dust extractors are great for painters who only sand. Large part of what I do is painting and the Mini has always served me well the last decade. I got an old type Midi from 2018 also last year, and while suction is the same, it tends to tip over all the time when I pull it by the hose, and the Mini does not do that. I would stick with a Mini because you don't need the extra capacity as a painter.

 

[zcore]

I've sanded an unfortunate amount of drywall/paint with an ETS 125, and then some more with an ETS EC 125/3.

Despite a smaller stroke, I really liked the fact you can use a 150mm pad on the 125. Especially if budget conscious, pretty strong value.

Planex likely would be optimal, but spendy. I've seen it destroy popcorn ceilings and what not, and certainly sanding walls with heavy texture or 15 coats of paint with hand held orbitals is doable, but trust me, you'll start to really consider the sweat equity of just buying a planex eventually as you trudge up and down that ladder over and over.

I think I've seen maybe one used planex outside of recon sales, but for this particular task, maybe one of the WENs might be the go to, not sure on the quality of dust collection from the amazon budget variants though.

I remember reading about Dewalt entering the ring with a cordless drywall sander, I have sworn a blood oath to never touch drywall mud again, so haven't kept up with the market as much these days.

Also re: working space with the planex. The LHS is adjustable, which is great for hallways/tight spaces. You'd have to be working some really cramped spaces for it to be an issue I'd imagine. Definitely a downside to the easy variant or any of the budget amazon sanders.

 

[afish]

For interior work the planex 2.0 or Mirka leros is going to run circles around any hand held sander.  Exterior work not so much unless the exterior is large smooth surfaces but things like lap siding you will need a 5-6 and the DTS will still be very handy. The condition of the paint you typically deal with will determine if you need a rotex or not.  If cash is tight I would seriously consider the Bosh GET75 I think that's the 6" but they have a 5" as well.  I dont have a need for either of those sanders but from what I have read here and other places the bosch is every bit as good as the festool for considerably less money.  Yes the CT36 AC is designed to go with the Planex but if you are only sanding painted surfaces then the AC wont be a big factor.  Drywall dust is extremely dusty and a auto clean vac is mandatory.  If it was me I would just bite the bullet and get the AC so I was covered down the road. You can use a shop vac with a bag if you cant afford one right away.  As far as furniture and other obstacles the planex is not going to require furniture anymore distance from a wall than a guy bent over or kneeling behind a couch or having to put a ladder there. I would actually say less space is needed with the planex. Not only that but remember the planex/leros is on a stick so it has a tremendous reach advantage over a handheld not only up high and low but left to right as well.  I think you need to watch some youtube videos on the planex/leros.  I also specifically recommended the planex 2.0 and leros because they use a R.O. motion its basically a 9 inch ETS EC 150 on a stick.  The planex 1.0 is a rotary head only and can be more aggressive.  The planex 2.0 is not available here in the US yet.  So if you need something right now the Leros is.  The head is very compact and light with a 5mm orbit.  The only problem is in small closets you can still usually get 85-90% of them but hallways arnt an issue.  If you have some small closets just get what you can and then touch up the hard to reach spots with your current bosch

 

[afish]

For interior work the planex 2.0 or Mirka leros is going to run circles around any hand held sander.  Exterior work not so much unless the exterior is large smooth surfaces but things like lap siding you will need a 5-6 and the DTS will still be very handy. The condition of the paint you typically deal with will determine if you need a rotex or not.  If cash is tight I would seriously consider the Bosh GET75 I think that's the 6" but they have a 5" as well.  I dont have a need for either of those sanders but from what I have read here and other places the bosch is every bit as good as the festool for considerably less money.  Yes the CT36 AC is designed to go with the Planex but if you are only sanding painted surfaces then the AC wont be a big factor.  Drywall dust is extremely dusty and a auto clean vac is mandatory.  If it was me I would just bite the bullet and get the AC so I was covered down the road. You can use a shop vac with a bag if you cant afford one right away.  As far as furniture and other obstacles the planex is not going to require furniture anymore distance from a wall than a guy bent over or kneeling behind a couch or having to put a ladder there. I would actually say less space is needed with the planex. Not only that but remember the planex/leros is on a stick so it has a tremendous reach advantage over a handheld not only up high and low but left to right as well.  I think you need to watch some youtube videos on the planex/leros.  I also specifically recommended the planex 2.0 and leros because they use a R.O. motion its basically a 9 inch ETS EC 150 on a stick.  The planex 1.0 is a rotary head only and can be more aggressive.  The planex 2.0 is not available here in the US yet.  So if you need something right now the Leros is.  The head is very compact and light with a 5mm orbit.  The only problem is in small closets you can still usually get 85-90% of them but hallways arnt an issue.  If you have some small closets just get what you can and then touch up the hard to reach spots with your current bosch

As far as cordless drywall sanders go... I have never understood the appeal.  The 2 things you want in a drywall/pole type sander is good dust collection and lightweight.  The weight reduction really shines if you ever have to spend a day sanding ceilings. Every ounce counts at that point.  I dont want the extra weight of a battery on the pole. You already have to have a dust hose which is the bigger and bulkier of the two hooked up anyways so you dont even notice the electrical cord.  But yes both dewalt and makita offer one.  I have never looked that closely at them but Im guessing they are the rotary type but frankly I lost interest since it was cordless and never gave them a second look.  I have a 5" dewalt RO sander and that thing kills batteries pretty quick I could only imagine how often you will need to swap batteries on a 9" sander or use bigger and heavier batteries.  No thanks. 

 

[mkasdin]

Ets ec 125 for quick work in tight spots. Planex (easy) for paint scuffing or popcorn removal. Level 4 or level 5 drywall sanding get a random orbital Mirka or the Planex2. The Planex will leave some marks? and takes more control when doing finish.

 

[rst]

I just finished my daughters basement, timely as she and her husband both caught covid.  Son-in-law lived in the there for two weeks  as he developed the flu like symptoms.  Granddaughter stayed test free, both daughter and son in law work for major hospital in central PA, both in IT.  I have a planex which as murphy would have it is in St Augustine, FL with my other daughter.  I used a  hand powered vac assisted sander prior to the Planex and would not sand any other way.  I bought the Full Circle pole sander FCI system from Amazon and my Festool 36AC.  We were pleased with the results and you could use any vac although the Festool helps with noise sanity in small spaces.  We also used my Ets Ec and Dts Ec and Norton 1715 corner sanding sponge.  The biggest trick with drywall is to keep your layers thin, I've seen to many guys put WAY too much mud on and then create way too much clean up...definitely no good in customers lived in house. 

 

[westcoastpainter]

I just finished my daughters basement, timely as she and her husband both caught covid.  Son-in-law lived in the there for two weeks  as he developed the flu like symptoms.  Granddaughter stayed test free, both daughter and son in law work for major hospital in central PA, both in IT.  I have a planex which as murphy would have it is in St Augustine, FL with my other daughter.  I used a  hand powered vac assisted sander prior to the Planex and would not sand any other way.  I bought the Full Circle pole sander FCI system from Amazon and my Festool 36AC.  We were pleased with the results and you could use any vac although the Festool helps with noise sanity in small spaces.  We also used my Ets Ec and Dts Ec and Norton 1715 corner sanding sponge.  The biggest trick with drywall is to keep your layers thin, I've seen to many guys put WAY too much mud on and then create way too much clean up...definitely no good in customers lived in house.

How are you using your Planex? For new drywall sanding or for an overall sanding of previously painted walls before repainting?

 

[rst]

I got the Planex and 36 AC used, took to my daughter's remodel in FL.  Used for ceilings and walls.  Definitely useful, daughter's fiancee not really carpenter, house built in 1920s, nothing flat, lots of mud to flatten out.  Living in house, was great.

 

[westcoastpainter]

I'm still not sure about getting a Planex. Is it overkill for how we would be using it on repaints when it's really meant for sanding mud on new drywall during initial construction or a renovation.

We are not doing any of that type of sanding, we're sanding previously painted walls with small thin drywall patches on nicks, dings and scratches. Besides sanding the patches we do an overall sanding of the walls and obviously the bigger diameter of the Planex would allow for quicker sanding on larger walls, but would we find it too be too aggressive and cause more issues? I watched a video where the guy said you have keep it constantly moving, even leaving it for just an extra split second in the same spot could create a ring or mark?

I would also think we would have to be switching back and forth from a Planex to a smaller sander when working in smaller sections of walls around windows, cabinets and in small rooms full of fixtures like bathrooms.

 

[rst]

If your mostly doing touchups, you don't need the Planex.  Go with one of the ETS ECs or the Full Circle for manual...think  waxon, waxoff

 

[xedos]

The EC150/5 is waaaaaay too aggressive/large orbit. for drywall compound.  Especially lightweight type.

Take zcore's advice and go for the ETS125EC and buy the 6" pad to complement it.  Then you've got a 5" and  6" sander .

 

[westcoastpainter]

The EC150/5 is waaaaaay too aggressive/large orbit. for drywall compound.  Especially lightweight type.

Take zcore's advice and go for the ETS125EC and buy the 6" pad to complement it.  Then you've got a 5" and  6" sander .

The Bosch 5 inch random orbital sander we have been using says Orbit Diameter is 3/32" (2.5 mm) and Orbit Radius is 3/64" (1.25 mm)

Festool uses the word sanding stroke, is that the same as the Oribit Diameter measurement shown above for the Bosch? I'm trying to get an idea of how these Festool sanders will compare to the Bosch we have.

 

[AlexThePalex]

The EC150/5 is waaaaaay too aggressive/large orbit. for drywall compound.  Especially lightweight type.

No it isn't. I use my Rotex 150 with a 5 mm stroke all the time on walls with all kinds of plaster and drywall compounds, and it works just fine, so the 150/5 will also do. You decide how aggressive it is by choosing the proper grit paper.

I also had the ETS 150/3 and it was a lot slower, and I have the ETS 125 which also works great on small spots but is tediously slow when you do entire walls.

Time is money for a professional. My Rotex with 280 grit paper in fine mode works faster than an ETS 125 with 120 grit.

 

[mrboult]

I think your instincts are right on both items.

I agree that a 5mm orbit will absolutely fine for this kind of work, and you'll appreciate the extra speed. The only reason to choose 3mm orbit over 5mm orbit is if you are looking to achieve the very best of fine 'polished' finishes on wood or similar.  Painted surfaces get zero benefit from the smaller 3mm orbit in my opinion. BUT, having said this, I think a 3mm orbit would also be fine to prep previously painted walls, just a bit slower.

The Low profile ETS EC sanders make sense for walls and ceilings. If you are happy with the 150mm pad then the ETS EC 150/5 makes sense. But if you would like to be able to use a smaller 125mm pad then bear in mind that the ETS EC 125/3 will also accept the 150mm Festool pad.
NOTE: it does not work the other way around, the 150mm ETS EC sanders won't fit the 125mm pad. Without modification to the pad at least.

I own the ETS EC 125/3 and the Mirka Deros 150/5. Both sanders take 125 & 150 pad sizes and I personally prefer the Deros. But I do also really like and rate the ETS EC.
(not all Deros are equal I believe so don't assume it will take both pad sizes, check the model number)

 

[afish]

5mm orbit is fine and its what the leros uses and most likely the P2. These are sanders that have had hundreds of hours of engineering and testing done so the fact that is what they chose tells me a 150/5 would be the ideal candidate if you want a handheld unit.  Had you said you only use the sander to spot in the wall then I would say sure a 150/5 is fine but since you did say you go over the whole wall, That to me says leros or P2 but to each their own and everyone has their own ways.  As far as the "you have to keep the sander moving and cant stop or you will damage the wall".  This is in reference to the rotary style sanders such as the planex 1 and almost every other drywall sander on the market except for the Leros and P2 and mostly over drywall mud since it is pretty soft.  As Alex said the grit should be adjusted for the task at hand. The leros and P2 uses a totally different technology it works exactly like a ets ec 150/5 its just bigger and on a pole so you can sand from baseboard to ceiling from one comfortable normal standing position. Instead of up and down ladders and getting down on hands and knees for the low stuff.  Im not sure if you have employees but if you do the cost of a Leros or P2 will pale in comparison to the cost of a workers comp claim.  The Leros and P2 are much more forgiving and easier to use.  I would even hazard to say that you would almost have to try to cause any damage.  Would I recommend a P1 for this job "NO"  I typically just use a pole sander for this work but Im not typically working in a unoccupied homes.  Since you are the dust control is a big issue so I would be using the most and best DC measures I could. 

No RO sander is going to get right into the corner or up against another finished surface without risk of damage.  That's why I said a DTS or some type of delta sander would be a good compliment to the Leros or P2.  I would also keep plenty of sanding sponges on the truck. One thing is for sure you will need more than just one sander or type of sander if you want to do your job well and efficiently. Sanders are like most tools and have specific tasks they are most suitable for.  You would never try and go paint an entire house with just a 3" brush...

If you can only afford one sander then you need to look at what you do more of interior or exterior and look at why you are wanting to upgrade from your current setup and start there.  If you you are only lacking or needing better dust control then get the best extractor you can and 150/5 and add the you will pick up some speed and efficiency moving from a 5" to a 6" is it going to be a drastic change? No, but it will help and add up. Your biggest return will be the DC.  If you do a lot of exterior work that involves removal of a lot of damaged peeling paint then a rotex type sander is probably your better bet.  Since DC is less of an issue outside I would still get the Bosch GET75 or GET65 and use the saved money on another sander like the DTS 400 but the rotex 90 might be better depending on the types of siding you typically do.  For the ultimate speed and efficiency of sanding entire walls quickly and as dust free as possible the Leros or P2 is what's needed.  There is no comparison stepping up from a handheld 5 or 6 RO sander to a pole mounted 9" is going to be light years faster.  What you upgrade first just depends on your biggest need and available funds.  Good luck I hope it all works out.   

 

[westcoastpainter]

If you can only afford one sander then you need to look at what you do more of interior or exterior and look at why you are wanting to upgrade from your current setup and start there.  If you you are only lacking or needing better dust control then get the best extractor you can and 150/5 and add the you will pick up some speed and efficiency moving from a 5" to a 6" is it going to be a drastic change? No, but it will help and add up. Your biggest return will be the DC.  If you do a lot of exterior work that involves removal of a lot of damaged peeling paint then a rotex type sander is probably your better bet.  Since DC is less of an issue outside I would still get the Bosch GET75 or GET65 and use the saved money on another sander like the DTS 400 but the rotex 90 might be better depending on the types of siding you typically do.  For the ultimate speed and efficiency of sanding entire walls quickly and as dust free as possible the Leros or P2 is what's needed.  There is no comparison stepping up from a handheld 5 or 6 RO sander to a pole mounted 9" is going to be light years faster.  What you upgrade first just depends on your biggest need and available funds.  Good luck I hope it all works out. 

Thank you for the detailed info, this has been helpful. I see your point about the P2 or the Leros being the most efficient option, even if we are not using it for mudded drywall.

Being a small family business we don't have the budget for the Leros or P2 and a dust extractor at the moment, but we do want to improve on what we currently have. Upgrading from a shop vac to a proper dust extractor is the highest priority. If we go with the Midi dust extractor and for now the ETS EC 150/5 will we be able to purchase the Leros or P2 at a later date and use it with the midi? We wouldn't be able to budget another dust extractor with the auto clean. We also would like to stick with a smaller dust extractor if possible since we get into some tight situations in furnished homes.

One other question. Would it be best to get the harder backing pad for the ETS EC 150/5 for use on walls. We swapped out to a harder backing pad for the Bosch RO that we have and had to get our paint store to order in a harder backer for the Radius360 pole sander. The 9 inch size of that pole sander is great, but we still found we couldn't get enough pressure or contact with the wall to properly sand out any previous drips and runs in the paint finish or our patch work. We use a patch that dries fairly hard.

 

[AlexThePalex]

One other question. Would it be best to get the harder backing pad for the ETS EC 150/5 for use on walls.

Yes, definitely get the hard pad. I always use the hard pad with the sanders that have that option. Everything in a house like wood and walls are best sanded with the hard pad. I only use the soft pad on curves, which is mostly when I have to work on a car.