Screwed With Screws...Which Do You Use?
- Thread starter darita
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CCGA3359
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The problem with square drive is that is square drive. The original square headed screw is the Robertson screw, a Canadian design. The beauty of Robbies is that it is a tapered square hole which along with a tapered square driver holds the screw onto the driver. This allows one handed placement and minimal cam out. I drive hundreds of these screws a day building fences, decks and interior framing. My bits do last weeks (I use special hardened Robertson bits from Lee valley, but am trying Milwaukee's new impact driver bit with impressive results). The problems I run into is when we get foreign made square drive screws to use, with our Robertson drives Although the square is roughly the same size and the bits and screw do fit together. The contact area is greatly reduced when a taper comes into contact with the flat side of the hole causing cam out stripping and premature bit wear and the occasional #2 Robbie drive going deeply into flesh. This last part is extremely painful and bleeds like a son of a gun. This I feel is where the bad reputation of square drive/Robertson drive comes from. Chances are that you are unable to get the more superior, tapered Robertson south of the border for rather interesting and sad reasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw#Robertson).
In short I would recommend that you ensure you have the right type of bit for the screw you are using. Just like Robertson and Square are interchangeable with sometime disastrous result but so to are Phillips and Pozidrive. Also It's check that you are using the correct size of bit I don't know how many times I've had to switch over to drive a Phillips screw and grabbed a bit one size too small for the screw. it would still drive with only the occasional slipping but does wear the bits faster.
In short I would recommend that you ensure you have the right type of bit for the screw you are using. Just like Robertson and Square are interchangeable with sometime disastrous result but so to are Phillips and Pozidrive. Also It's check that you are using the correct size of bit I don't know how many times I've had to switch over to drive a Phillips screw and grabbed a bit one size too small for the screw. it would still drive with only the occasional slipping but does wear the bits faster.
Sparktrician
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duburban said:
Which GRKs have you found to be brittle and under what circumstances? I've not experienced that at all using R4s in #8, 9, and 10 sizes, cabinet screws, trim screws and RSS screws.
Handyman Mike
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Lee Valley sells a very limited range of real Robertson #8 screws with Recex heads (Phillips/Robertson) combo. (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/page.aspx?p=58001&cat=3,41306) I've had very good luck with this type of drive. It's just about my favorite at this point. I second the objections to generic square drive screws. It's annoying as heck and a huge time waster when one of those things gets stuck on a bit. The one time I actually would use them is for drywall (Home Depot carries square-drive drywall screws), but only if using a depth-setter with a clutch. Otherwise, drywall is the one place application where Phillips heads make sense. Remember, Phillips were actually designed to cam out. It's a primitive form of torque limitation.
Edit: I looked more carefully, and it turns out that Lee Valley also sells a selection of Robertson Lo-Root screws. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/page.aspx?p=58094&cat=3,41306,41315&ap=1
Edit: I looked more carefully, and it turns out that Lee Valley also sells a selection of Robertson Lo-Root screws. http://www.leevalley.com/US/Hardware/page.aspx?p=58094&cat=3,41306,41315&ap=1
Yes, Phillips were indeed specifically designed to cam out: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips]
I usually prefer square, mainly because easier to get (at least where I'm at) in a wider range of screws, but I've used Torx screws quite happily as well. I don't think I've ever actually seen a PZ screw.
Some of the self-feeding screw guns can take either phillips or square bits - I had one for a while that could do that.
I particularly like the Kreg, SPAX, and Highpoint screws. I don't think I've ever tried the GRKs, as I can find those other three brands in the local stores I shop at...
I've actually driven Kreg screws through thin sheet metal as well, even though I don't think they are really labelled for that... seems to work OK.
I usually prefer square, mainly because easier to get (at least where I'm at) in a wider range of screws, but I've used Torx screws quite happily as well. I don't think I've ever actually seen a PZ screw.
Some of the self-feeding screw guns can take either phillips or square bits - I had one for a while that could do that.
I particularly like the Kreg, SPAX, and Highpoint screws. I don't think I've ever tried the GRKs, as I can find those other three brands in the local stores I shop at...
I've actually driven Kreg screws through thin sheet metal as well, even though I don't think they are really labelled for that... seems to work OK.
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