I have an RO 125, and I love it with all my heart..Seems at times though, I have a need for a more gentle sander, and I can't see the need to have two orbitals (RO & ETS). I like the square feature of the RTS. Just want to make sure I am not missing anything for features between the RTS and the ETS. Which would you get for a second sander?
Second Fiddler to my RO125...RTS or ETS?
- Thread starter skids
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Scott B. said:
That thing is bad *&^%...Awesome little sander. I have two huge rooms of recessed panel wainscot..Some spots my biscuits didn't line up perfectly for one reason or another, that sander would be perfect right now to ease those edges on those joints. I know if I take the RO to it it will be like trying to tame a wild horse in a small stable. It's like bringing a .50 caliber to a Paintball fight sometimes.
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skids said:
You know the answer to that... ;D
I love that whole family...ets/dts/rts. Its just a matter of which shape can help you the most.
What I love about the rts is that just fits SO many common scenarios in cabinetry. And turned broad side can cover ground in larger spaces, like carcasses. And, just for kicks, it doubles as a freakin dynamite small scale drywall patch sander (the extraction is insane).
[attachimg=#]
Not sure how the pic ended up where it did, but you get the picture... [scared]
Brice Burrell
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Scott B. said:
The inline image code was already in the quote, the first attached photo goes to the first place it finds the code.
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skids said:
I love the delta on the 90, but the only thing it really has in common with the dts is the triangular tip. Kind of apples and oranges. I mean, its never a bad idea to get an RO90 but its not going to replace the dts400 anytime soon. It will make the dx93 extinct though.
And thanks, Brice!
Brice Burrell
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skids said:
There are pluses and minuses to both the RTS and DTS. Here are a few things to mull over.
RTS:
Pros, narrow and will fit it tight places the DTS might not. You've got four corners of the rectangle pad/paper to sand into corners. This spreads the wear out over the four corners.
Cons, being narrow it can be tippy as you briskly cruise around. If the sander tips on soft, particularly drywall mud, it cut into the finish. The straight edges of the pad chatter along the adjacent edges.
DTS:
Pros, concave edges of the pad don't chatter along adjacent edges. Works better in corners and less tippy than the RTS.
Cons, the tip of the pad and paper can, and do wear out quickly.
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Brice Burrell said:
Brice,
On the rts, you can totally control tippiness with extraction. I always have it at zero, and even rigged a reducer in to get even less. Never been tippy. I do agree with your points overall, and I love the dts bevel, many handy situations where that saves the day.
skids said:
I find the Ro90 to be very versatile but is not as balanced or comfortable to use as the DTS/RTS/ETS. I could use my ETS125 all day one handed with the hand position directly over the center of the pad. With the RO90 the hand position is behind and I find myself constantly trying to keep the pad flat on the surface especially when using the triangular pads.
MrToolJunkie
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I really like the DTS400 -- having the delta pad really expands your abilities and it complements the round sander you have nicely. It was my second sander after the RO150. I have an RO90 and it is a great sander too, but I have not used the Delta pad that much. I agree with Brice that the tip of the pads can wear out and I now have a couple of spares on hand so I am not down when in the middle of a project. But, that is one small annoyance for a truly exceptional sander. Being able to sand right up to an edge is an added bonus too.
Scot
Scot
Kev
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I'm very tempted to get a RTS400. Having the LS130 and a full stock of Granat for it makes the RTS400 dangerously easy. I have the DTS400 ... it feels like perfected version of my Rupes Delta I just ebayed (that takes exactly the same abrasives as te DTS400).
My assumption is the RTS400 feels like the DTS400 to hand - any comments out there on this?
Kev
My assumption is the RTS400 feels like the DTS400 to hand - any comments out there on this?
Kev
Timtool
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I think that if you now only have a RO125 then you didn't really have a taste yet of a proper Festool random orbital sander, the rotexes are great at fast removal in forced mode, but as random orbitals they are close to terrible. Get your hands on an ETS 150 series (not 125!) and you will see what you have been missing.
They are sort of at the center of the sanding spectrum with the most optimal combination of speed/finish/ergonomics.
The DTS is a real gem, that in my shop sees much more use than any Rotex, i will use it when the ETS can't fit. But the rotex's i only use when i really have to, the scratches they make and their awkward/tiring hold makes me always think twice before pulling them out. But once again when you need them, they really save your b**
They are sort of at the center of the sanding spectrum with the most optimal combination of speed/finish/ergonomics.
The DTS is a real gem, that in my shop sees much more use than any Rotex, i will use it when the ETS can't fit. But the rotex's i only use when i really have to, the scratches they make and their awkward/tiring hold makes me always think twice before pulling them out. But once again when you need them, they really save your b**
Timtool said:
Actually funny you mentioned using the ETS..My friend has one and I used it to smooth out some styles I had to rip down, and this is what got me thinking. I really like the ETS 125, was smooth as silk. But I was thinking since I had a round head sander with the RO 125 the RTS possibly the DTS would be best. I own a Fein Detail sander which has always served me well in corners so thats one more reason I think the RTS is the best choice.
Timtool
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Well it depends on what task you want another sander for, the ETS 125, DTS and RTS are pretty much the same sanders, the difference is shape of the head. The DTS is the most versatile of all. But all of these are finish sanders to sand in between finish coats. Using them on bare wood is a waste of time.
The big head of the DTS makes it great for finish sanding because it won't tip and ruin your finish. It's a completely different league from the fein or RO90 who would be awful at that.
So only if you want a finish sander for corner work get one of the DTS or RTS, if not then get an ETS 150 and i guarantee your RO125 will become your second sander.
But whatever you do don't buy an ETS125 just because it shares paper with the RO 125, that is a short term truth only and many (including me) have fallen in that trap.
The big head of the DTS makes it great for finish sanding because it won't tip and ruin your finish. It's a completely different league from the fein or RO90 who would be awful at that.
So only if you want a finish sander for corner work get one of the DTS or RTS, if not then get an ETS 150 and i guarantee your RO125 will become your second sander.
But whatever you do don't buy an ETS125 just because it shares paper with the RO 125, that is a short term truth only and many (including me) have fallen in that trap.
Brice Burrell
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Skids, you're finding why there are so many threads on this very subject, it's not as straight forwards as it might seem at first glance. For those members that have been around the forum for a while you can disregard the following lengthy post since you've probably already seen me or others hold forth on this topic before.
The ETS125 seems to be a love or hate kind of tool. Me, I love it, it's probably my most used sander. I feel like it is misunderstood. I completely agree it is not the most aggressive sander, and it is best suited as a finish sander. However, in my opinion, sanding bare wood very easily falls into the capabilities of the ETS125. I find the 125 so easy to handle and gives me perfect results that I'll reach for it first. The ironic thing is there are plenty of people who's experiences are the opposite when it comes to the handling and results of the 125.
The learning curve for the 125 was very short for me. The first time I used the 125 it got a full day's use. This did three things for me. First, I was able to quickly figure out the sweet spot with the suction for the vac/speed of the sander. Second, it got the sander through the break-in period on the first outing. The third thing I was able to get a pretty good understand of its capabilities. I think the haters never get through these three things. BTW, these three principals apply to the other two small sanders as well, the RTS and DTS.
So, if you find your new RTS, DTS or ETS sander hard to handle (jumping around) try these things.
-Learn how to set the suction on the vac to work in conjunction with the sander, not fighting it. There is a sweet spot you need to find. (Also, my experience with these small sander, generally speaking, is they work best at full speed, 6 on the dial). Sure, there are exceptions to this rule, but for the sake of learning how these puppies work, stay at full speed. If you happen to have one of the older Festool vacs, CT22/33 or an older mini/midi try the suction somewhere around 1/3-1/4 suction, the newer CT26/36/48 vacs start closer to all to the way down, and fine tune from there. The goal is to turn down the vac enough so the sander isn't being sucked down to the work piece, but up enough to get good dust collection. If you listen closely you can hear the sander's motor strain slightly when the vac is up too high. To get an idea what I'm talking about try setting the suction to 1/2 or so, then slowly turn the suction down until you hear the sound of the sander's motor change. When you hear that change you're getting close. There are variables like the grit of paper and how full the vac filter bag is that change constantly, so you may not figure it all out right away.
-The break-in period should also be discussed. The small sanders will run a little better after 6-8 hours of use. During the break-in period the brushes are seating (wearing to perfectly fit the armature). Once the brushes are seated the motor/sander will get its full power. The other thing that happens during the break-in is the sanding brake is breaking-in. The sanding brake, that rubber skirt looking thing between the sander body and the sanding pad, helps control the speed of the sanding pad. When the brake is brand new it can slow the sanding pad down a little too much. Between the slightly slower motor and brake slowing the sanding pad the sander can sometimes be jumpy or harder to control before the break-in.
The good news it is easy to get through the break-in period without using the sander all day-just hang it up and let run. Suspend the sander so the pad isn't in contact with anything and run the sander for 6-8 hours. I'd advise you keep an eye on it just to be sure nothing is going wrong. After that you'll know any issues aren't due to break-in.
-Learning the capabilities for these sanders is harder to quantify. These are finish sanders so they aren't intended for aggressive stock removal. That said, I find they do okay with 80-60 grit paper removing finishes and for stock removal. Sure there are better options out there, however, these small sander will work if need be. They do shine in their intended finish role. They are light weight and super easy to handle all day long. As I already mentioned I generally run these sanders at full speed. Sanding between coats of finish I'll slow them down some. Bottom line, you need hands on time to learn what they will do for you.
We're lucky, Festool offers the 30 day trial to try the tools out. Don't be afraid to return a tool if its not working out. Use the 30 days! Don't buy one of these sanders and let it sit on a shelf for 30 days. Buy when you intend to use it. Buy, use, learn, and use some more. Good luck.
The ETS125 seems to be a love or hate kind of tool. Me, I love it, it's probably my most used sander. I feel like it is misunderstood. I completely agree it is not the most aggressive sander, and it is best suited as a finish sander. However, in my opinion, sanding bare wood very easily falls into the capabilities of the ETS125. I find the 125 so easy to handle and gives me perfect results that I'll reach for it first. The ironic thing is there are plenty of people who's experiences are the opposite when it comes to the handling and results of the 125.
The learning curve for the 125 was very short for me. The first time I used the 125 it got a full day's use. This did three things for me. First, I was able to quickly figure out the sweet spot with the suction for the vac/speed of the sander. Second, it got the sander through the break-in period on the first outing. The third thing I was able to get a pretty good understand of its capabilities. I think the haters never get through these three things. BTW, these three principals apply to the other two small sanders as well, the RTS and DTS.
So, if you find your new RTS, DTS or ETS sander hard to handle (jumping around) try these things.
-Learn how to set the suction on the vac to work in conjunction with the sander, not fighting it. There is a sweet spot you need to find. (Also, my experience with these small sander, generally speaking, is they work best at full speed, 6 on the dial). Sure, there are exceptions to this rule, but for the sake of learning how these puppies work, stay at full speed. If you happen to have one of the older Festool vacs, CT22/33 or an older mini/midi try the suction somewhere around 1/3-1/4 suction, the newer CT26/36/48 vacs start closer to all to the way down, and fine tune from there. The goal is to turn down the vac enough so the sander isn't being sucked down to the work piece, but up enough to get good dust collection. If you listen closely you can hear the sander's motor strain slightly when the vac is up too high. To get an idea what I'm talking about try setting the suction to 1/2 or so, then slowly turn the suction down until you hear the sound of the sander's motor change. When you hear that change you're getting close. There are variables like the grit of paper and how full the vac filter bag is that change constantly, so you may not figure it all out right away.
-The break-in period should also be discussed. The small sanders will run a little better after 6-8 hours of use. During the break-in period the brushes are seating (wearing to perfectly fit the armature). Once the brushes are seated the motor/sander will get its full power. The other thing that happens during the break-in is the sanding brake is breaking-in. The sanding brake, that rubber skirt looking thing between the sander body and the sanding pad, helps control the speed of the sanding pad. When the brake is brand new it can slow the sanding pad down a little too much. Between the slightly slower motor and brake slowing the sanding pad the sander can sometimes be jumpy or harder to control before the break-in.
The good news it is easy to get through the break-in period without using the sander all day-just hang it up and let run. Suspend the sander so the pad isn't in contact with anything and run the sander for 6-8 hours. I'd advise you keep an eye on it just to be sure nothing is going wrong. After that you'll know any issues aren't due to break-in.
-Learning the capabilities for these sanders is harder to quantify. These are finish sanders so they aren't intended for aggressive stock removal. That said, I find they do okay with 80-60 grit paper removing finishes and for stock removal. Sure there are better options out there, however, these small sander will work if need be. They do shine in their intended finish role. They are light weight and super easy to handle all day long. As I already mentioned I generally run these sanders at full speed. Sanding between coats of finish I'll slow them down some. Bottom line, you need hands on time to learn what they will do for you.
We're lucky, Festool offers the 30 day trial to try the tools out. Don't be afraid to return a tool if its not working out. Use the 30 days! Don't buy one of these sanders and let it sit on a shelf for 30 days. Buy when you intend to use it. Buy, use, learn, and use some more. Good luck.
Brice Burrell said:
Thanks Brice, as always, phenomenal advice. I will take it with me as I make my decision. Still leaning towards the RTS, but may take my RO125 to the job just to see what happens. Think two butt joints of Windsor One 1x material, basically a face frame. A few spots the biscuit didn't seat right and there is an edge or two I need to flatten down a small amount before I paint it up with a sem gloss. I thought this would be a good place for these small sanders. I also see a need in the future for a finish sander as well.
Brice Burrell
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Skids, if you've got some hands on time your Rotex could pull off sanding the 1X with the RO125 no problem. I'm not trying to talk you out of a new sander, no way.
Brice Burrell said:
I do actually, finished a couple of staircases with it, and you couldn't be more right about having time with this thing. I hated it when I first fired it up, but now I got it down so well I hold it with one hand towards the back of the sander and find it very fun to work with. Definitly have to reserve judgement on the sanders (especially the Rotexes) and get some time in and let them work in a bit. I noticed a huge difference from my first use to now. I love my RO125 but it is a bit of a beast. If I can get away with the RO will stick with that for now, otherwise RTS it is! Which will set back my 1010 purchase. [unsure]
I started like you--RO125 first, and then I added the ETS125, rather than the ETS 150. For me, the decision was based on being able to use the same disks for both sanders.
Now, I find that use the ETS125 more than the RO. It handles easily one-handed, and is amazingly fast using coarse grit disks, and equally impressive at producing a fine finish in the fine grits.
One thing I found is that it will tend to dance around on the surface more in LOWER speeds than on the highest. Being left-handed, I sometimes accidentally rotate the speed dial down to low speed.
Now, I find that use the ETS125 more than the RO. It handles easily one-handed, and is amazingly fast using coarse grit disks, and equally impressive at producing a fine finish in the fine grits.
One thing I found is that it will tend to dance around on the surface more in LOWER speeds than on the highest. Being left-handed, I sometimes accidentally rotate the speed dial down to low speed.
