Seneca Bit Adapter For DF700 vs DF500?

[alltracman78]

Thinking of getting the Seneca bit adapter for my 700.

Obviously it's much cheaper to buy the adapter vs the DF500.
Perhaps more importantly (to me anyways) the 700 seems to be more than just a scaled up version of the 500, but also has a better fence.

Is there any downside to using the larger tool on smaller (thinner) pieces?
Any reason I should get the 500 instead?

I don't anticipate any issues, but I thought I would ask those that already have it just in case?

 

[woodferret]

I asked Sedge once about the mid-panel trick that one does with the DF500, but on the DF700.  The problem is that 10mm (DF500) works still with 18mm ply, but the 15mm offset (DF700) is pushing it.

Still waiting on him to do a video on mid panel DF700.

 

[rmhinden]

That why the Seneca includes a plate with the small mortise kit for the DF700.  Its thickness allows one to center in thinner stock that can be done with the DF700 otherwise.  They have several version of this, for example, Domi-Shim™ and Dock Plate XL.

Bob

 

[smorgasbord]

Is there any downside to using the larger tool on smaller (thinner) pieces?
Any reason I should get the 500 instead?

I have the DF700 plus the adapter. The only real issue is that the DF700 operates at a lower rpm, so when using the small diameter bits, you have to feed more slowly.

Other minor...concerns, not issues:
1) You have to be aware of the depth at which you're plunging small bits
2) There are no depth stops for less than 15mm of depth. I got a set of those way overpriced 3D printed spacers that snap on the guide tube. They work fine.
3) For small stock you'll want to build a table like the one Carmonius Finsnickeri discusses here on FOG:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/domino-jig-for-smaller-parts/30/
I guess some people use the "dock" but every video I've seen of it in use seems awkward at best.

 

[Lincoln]

You have to be aware of the minimum plunge depth, with the adapter fitted. Don't remember the exact measurement, but I know that I couldn't cut a mortise into the face of a 16mm thick board without it getting VERY close to breaking through. Was enough for me to ditch the idea and get the 500.

 

[alltracman78]

Definitely some food for thought.
Glad I asked.

I appreciate all the info.

 

[rmhinden]

It is very easy to make custom limit stops using some PVC tubing.  The DF500 Supplemental User’s Manual describes this for the DF500 on page 19, but the same approach works for the DF700.

BTW, I hadn't looked at the Domino supplemental user manuals in a while.  They are quite good.  Here is the link to the DF700 Supplemental User’s Manual.

Bob

 

[woodferret]

In regards to mid panel, page 17 of the DF700 also covers the technique which is the same as the DF500.  The DF700 does assume a nominal board thickness of about 30mm, but less than that they give the tip of biasing the domino lower on the shelf to give it more meat above.  They don't outright say the minimum thickness one should attempt, but you can do the math at which point it pokes through.

I had hoped there was some offset trick to compensate, but no not really.

 

[grbmds]

I have always felt that the DF500 is made for small and medium sized joinery work. With that in mind, several years ago I bought the 700 after having owned the 500 for about 5 years before that. The 500 works for the majority of my furniture, drawer, and cabinet work as well as for a few shop related items I've made. However, while I haven't used the 700 for many projects, when I needed it for longer and thicker Dominos for larger applications, it can't be beat.

Each was made to suit a purpose. While I'm sure you can get along with the 700 and Seneca adapters, I personally feel the 700 is cumbersome for work on smaller furniture pieces, drawers, cabinet frames, etc. I find the 500 much easier to set in place and use in these situations.

So, my feeling is that, if you mostly do large pieces, the 700 is the best choice. If you mostly do smaller pieces then the 500 is better choice because it's just easier to use and manage on smaller pieces. You can be creative with joints by doubling up on tenons etc. If you end up making a truly large piece like a bed or a door, then you'd have to make the decision on getting the 700 at that point.

In the end, it's what you feel comfortable with for some tools. From forums, I know that there are just as many who feel as I do as there are who believe only buying the 700 makes the most sense. In part, it's certainly a financial decision also, given prices.

 

[blues]

At that time, many years ago when i was in the market for a domino deciding between the 700 and 500 was crazy (halfinch shy was the only God ). I was at the local woodcraft store working out the pro's/con's, feel, weight, price etc. Could not make up my mind. So decided to walk out the door. Someone apparently was noticing what i was doing, and the type of questions i was asking - he gave me a nod, and i stopped to say hi (little did i know he was the one sent by God to push me down the slippery slope). This tradesman with many years of experience told me ' take the 700 - is better balanced, can do everything - almost (get the seneca adapter and 500 bits) and it will not leave you wanting anything more' he added 'don't do the mistake i did'. It took about 15 min of chatting and i walked out with the 700 kit. I think it's may have been about 10yr's and that advice has held true till date. I have used it across various projects, big and small - literally nothing i could not handle including the connectors both 700 and 500. It played perfectly into my vision of "least no of tools (small shop) to get the most no of jobs done". Very happy since (still am) so i thought, and the urge to get the 500 kicked in as i found myself in that space often. I resisted because i already have a tool that can do that and more. Then came the Mafell DDF40 - the absolute darling for case work and smaller projects. And what a brilliant compliment it was to the 700! I have the entire spectrum covered and it's cheaper to use dowels  on smaller projects and the mafell is just an amazingly precise tool. Sheer joy every single time i use it. Bonus - shelf pin holes are an absolute breeze! Pop the correct red pin and off you go to the races - no marking,  alignment, setup. Just a clever little tool. Now that i know what i know, is there a chance i would trade one tool for another? An emphatic NO. They both have their own sweet spots. But I realize that i use the DDF40 about 70% of the time. But for the 30% where i need the 700 there is no equal - which is why you buy the 700 in the 1st place.

Take what you will from this journey. Ultimately it's your common sense that will dictate what tool you will need/ buy. These are all great tools. You can't go wrong because after you buy the tool you decide to buy, you will realize your capability to build has gone up multi fold. So dont analyze too much - just do. Good luck.

 

[ChuckM]

FESTOOL- Are you following this?

Please get the DF600 out quick, the one that really does (most of) what the DF500 and DF700 combined can do!....before the competitors might in a few years.

 

[imdking]

FESTOOL- Are you following this?

Please get the DF600 out quick, the one that really does (most of) what the DF500 and DF700 combined can do!....before the competitors might in a few years.

So we can kill the sales of our DF700? And the DF500?
Not happening,

 

[ChuckM]

When the patents expire (not many years away), somebody might, if Festool chooses not to. Last time I checked, I could still pick a SUV in Big, Medium or Small class. It's not necessarily a zero-sum game. Or the DF600 could ask for a higher price and replace the DF500!

 

[luvmytoolz]

When the patents expire (not many years away), somebody might, if Festool chooses not to. Last time I checked, I could still pick a SUV in Big, Medium or Small class. It's not necessarily a zero-sum game. Or the DF600 could ask for a higher price and replace the DF500!

I think the most likely outcome eventually when patents expire is a Triton equivalent quality frankenmachine more so than quality machines that are very similar to the existing lineup.

 

[online421]

Is there any downside to using the larger tool on smaller (thinner) pieces?
Any reason I should get the 500 instead?

I have the DF700 plus the adapter. The only real issue is that the DF700 operates at a lower rpm, so when using the small diameter bits, you have to feed more slowly.

Other minor...concerns, not issues:
1) You have to be aware of the depth at which you're plunging small bits
2) There are no depth stops for less than 15mm of depth. I got a set of those way overpriced 3D printed spacers that snap on the guide tube. They work fine.
3) For small stock you'll want to build a table like the one Carmonius Finsnickeri discusses here on FOG:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/domino-jig-for-smaller-parts/30/
I guess some people use the "dock" but every video I've seen of it in use seems awkward at best.

now I see why my bit has been snapping!
I have had the 700 and the adaptor since they came out. I have had 4 of the 5mm bit snapped in the last 7-8 years because I fed too fast. but I use 600 of the 5mm domino every 3 months.

 

[alltracman78]

Good to know. I'll definitely file that away.
This is all good info.

I already have the DF700. I'm not trying to decide which to buy.
Wondering if it's worth the extra dough to get the DF500 vs the adapter for the little amount of small stuff I do