Sharpening system for plane irons?

[ear3]

Not to open Pandora's box by asking about preferred sharpening methods, but...

My sharpening needs thus far have been for my bench chisels and turning tools, which have been met by the Worksharp 3000 I have.  This machine is not that great for plane irons, however, or the old Japanese chisels I hope to make serviceable somewhere down the road, and so I'm researching a new setup.  I only regularly use a block plane at this point, but in the future I will probably be adding more and better planes to the arsenal, which is why I want to get a good sharpening process in place.

I'm pretty certain I'm going to get the Veritas honing guide and a selection of the DMT stones.  I prefer not to have to worry about the stone getting worn out quickly and require flattening, which is why I'm leaning towards the DMT and not waterstones.  So my question is about which DMT stones to get.  The 6" Dia Sharp ones are attractive, since they have a different grit on each side, so less cost:http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D6FC-6-In...hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1456623261&sr=1-5&keywords=dmt+sharpening+stone

But what about the 8" ones, that only come in one grit?  What is the advantage of these over the dual grit other than the larger size?  Also, if I were to go with the 8" ones, what is the best selection/grit progression?

Finally, assuming I got the coarse or extra coarse stone on either the 6" or 8", would I still need to get the lapping plate, say, if I wanted to change the bevel angle on the plane iron?
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-Diamond-M...hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1456623744&sr=1-1&keywords=dmt+lapping+plate

Thanks for any and all advice.

 

[Holmz]

I broke down and got a Tormek.
It is now pretty easy to do the final part with the hand stones and the veritas plane holder thngamajig.

 

[dltflt]

I use a Tormek for the rough sharpening.  Then move to a 8000 grit water stone.

 

[tiralie]

I use the Tormek and the leather strop with the green compound for sharpening. I like hollow grind and I can put a curve on the blade easier with the Tormek. Ffor tuning up I use 1000, 4000 and 8000 Japanese water stones free hand. When I have screwed the blade up enough free hand sharpening I fix it with the Tormek. I have a Vertis honing guide but have never got used to using it. I hate the sound of the wheel on the stone.  I use a DMT to flatten the stones.
The Leonard Lee book on sharpening is good. I will get Ron Hock's book, and there are some very good video's (Watersandacland) on You Tube.
Tim

 

[grbmds]

I have gone through the whole range of sharpening options over the past 20 years. Within the past 1 - 2 years, I finally came to the conclusion after a lot of reading and frustration over the years, that hand sharpening with stones over the Tormek or WorkSharp for both chisels and plane blades gives me the best results of all the methods I've tried.

I currently own 2 DMT Duo-Sharp plates, one Xtra Coarse and Coarse (black and blue dots) and one with Fine and Xtra fine (Red and Green dots). The large 10 X 3 plate is really nice and, while it might be a little more convenient not to have to turn the plate over, I prefer the larger surface. If I need to resharpen the main bevel on a chisel or plane blade, I will generally start with the coarsest and move to the finest of these (from 220 mesh to 1200 mesh which I believe approximates to grit although they also indicate microns on the plates). Since diamond plates don't need flattening, they are great to use for this and, surprisingly don't take as long to get the desired result with a honing guide and periodically spraying with water to lubricate as you would think. Plus, it is not always necessary to start with the coarsest grit when the edge isn't bad to begin with.

I also own 2 Shapton Glass Stone for finishing - a 4000 and 8000. I haven't owned these very long but they are great and don't have to be flattened nearly as often as other waterstones. I still frequently flatten them with the DMT Lapping Plate just to be sure they are truly flat, but I think I obsess a bit here. There are videos online which demonstrate flattening but it's really not that difficult and doesn't take all that much time. These 2 stones will put the needed polish on the bevel to give it the best edge possible.

Then a micro-bevel is honed using only the 4000 and 8000 grit Shapton stones making sure the micro-bevel is polished like the back of the blade to essentially a mirror finish. The Shapton stones make this process a quick one.

I also use the Lapping Plate to flatten the back of chisels which have not been flattened as a first step and then move through all the diamond and Shapton stones to get a fine polish on the back.

I would recommend finishing the sharpening process with 4000 and 8000 water stones (although some go to 10000 and 12000 which I don't feel gives that much better result). They truly give the best result. I'm not an a expert but, after all the methods I've tried, I believe this hand sharpening process yields the best result. Am I perfect at it yet? No, but the result is already better than any other method I've tried.

As for honing guides, the Veritas MKII is a great guide and, for chisels I also bought the narrow bade attachment as it holds the blade from the side rather than clamping it top and bottom. This is much more secure and prevents angling due to slippage during sharpening. You can't use this with plane blades so you must use the original top/bottom clamp attachment which requires really cranking it tight  and easy blade movement to avoid cocking the blade in the holder. Another alternative is the new Lie-Nielen side clamp honing guide. It has gotten rave reviews but you will have to make your own guides to repetitively insert the blade the correct amount to get a consistent desired angle (unlike the MKII which has the bevel guide to make that a little more automatic). The other thing the MKII is good at is setting the micro-bevel angle by merely turning the side knob an locking it in to change the position of the roller.

My final recommendation is a reiteration of the fact that diamond stones strength is not the final finish polish steps required on the back, main bevel, and micro-bevel. Water stones do that best and I have recently found that the Shapton Glass Stones are  superior to the Norton's I tried. The Norton waterstones are OK, but, after dropping my combo 4000/8000 Norton and replacing it, I found the Norton's are now manufactured with a sharpening surface that is way out of flat. In one case I couldn't even get the entire surface flat after working on it for an hour or so. The Shapton stones don't have that problem and flatten easily with a lapping plate.

So, to get the best possible result with stones, you probably need the following:

DMT Duo Sharp Xtrax Cosars and Coarse (black and blue)
DMT Duo Sharp Fine and Very Fikne (red and green)
4000 grit Waterstone (Shapton, King, any waterstone which appears to be flat out of the box)
8000 grit Waterstone (Shatpon, King, any waterstone which is flat out of the box

Lapping plate - DMT's original plate is best - 120 grit - 10 X 3

Honing guide - Veritas MKII or Lie Nielsen Honing Guide (the expensive one for $125) or the $15 version. Any of these should work, but it is. to some extent, personal preference on which one works best for you.

Sorry this go so long but, after all of my other attempts with the Tormek and Worksharp, the results from using the combination of diamond stones for rough cutting and Shapton stones for the final finishing give superior results. The other thing I'd say is that, once you pick a method, stick with it and only it to make sure you master it. Since there are a lot of methods out there, once you start mixing them, that is when the result becomes questionable.

Hope this helped rather than confused and didn't offend anyone's sense of the perfect method. I'm saying that this is the method I'm sticking with after about 25 or more years of trying others based on great results after only about 6 months of frequent sharpening of chisels I had already sharpened.. I only wish I'd have made the switch years ago.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I use the Veritas jig and sharpen by hand.  I start with sand paper on granite.  I buy adhesive backed rolled sand paper from Klinspor.  I start with 100 grit if the iron is in bad shape and work with sand paper up to 220 grit.  After that I use Norton Waterstones going up to 8000 grit. 

 

[ear3]

Thanks for the detailed info [member=19734]grbmds[/member]

I have gone through the whole range of sharpening options over the past 20 years. Within the past 1 - 2 years, I finally came to the conclusion after a lot of reading and frustration over the years, that hand sharpening with stones over the Tormek or WorkSharp for both chisels and plane blades gives me the best results of all the methods I've tried.

I currently own 2 DMT Duo-Sharp plates, one Xtra Coarse and Coarse (black and blue dots) and one with Fine and Xtra fine (Red and Green dots). The large 10 X 3 plate is really nice and, while it might be a little more convenient not to have to turn the plate over, I prefer the larger surface. If I need to resharpen the main bevel on a chisel or plane blade, I will generally start with the coarsest and move to the finest of these (from 220 mesh to 1200 mesh which I believe approximates to grit although they also indicate microns on the plates). Since diamond plates don't need flattening, they are great to use for this and, surprisingly don't take as long to get the desired result with a honing guide and periodically spraying with water to lubricate as you would think. Plus, it is not always necessary to start with the coarsest grit when the edge isn't bad to begin with.

I also own 2 Shapton Glass Stone for finishing - a 4000 and 8000. I haven't owned these very long but they are great and don't have to be flattened nearly as often as other waterstones. I still frequently flatten them with the DMT Lapping Plate just to be sure they are truly flat, but I think I obsess a bit here. There are videos online which demonstrate flattening but it's really not that difficult and doesn't take all that much time. These 2 stones will put the needed polish on the bevel to give it the best edge possible.

Then a micro-bevel is honed using only the 4000 and 8000 grit Shapton stones making sure the micro-bevel is polished like the back of the blade to essentially a mirror finish. The Shapton stones make this process a quick one.

I also use the Lapping Plate to flatten the back of chisels which have not been flattened as a first step and then move through all the diamond and Shapton stones to get a fine polish on the back.

I would recommend finishing the sharpening process with 4000 and 8000 water stones (although some go to 10000 and 12000 which I don't feel gives that much better result). They truly give the best result. I'm not an a expert but, after all the methods I've tried, I believe this hand sharpening process yields the best result. Am I perfect at it yet? No, but the result is already better than any other method I've tried.

As for honing guides, the Veritas MKII is a great guide and, for chisels I also bought the narrow bade attachment as it holds the blade from the side rather than clamping it top and bottom. This is much more secure and prevents angling due to slippage during sharpening. You can't use this with plane blades so you must use the original top/bottom clamp attachment which requires really cranking it tight  and easy blade movement to avoid cocking the blade in the holder. Another alternative is the new Lie-Nielen side clamp honing guide. It has gotten rave reviews but you will have to make your own guides to repetitively insert the blade the correct amount to get a consistent desired angle (unlike the MKII which has the bevel guide to make that a little more automatic). The other thing the MKII is good at is setting the micro-bevel angle by merely turning the side knob an locking it in to change the position of the roller.

My final recommendation is a reiteration of the fact that diamond stones strength is not the final finish polish steps required on the back, main bevel, and micro-bevel. Water stones do that best and I have recently found that the Shapton Glass Stones are  superior to the Norton's I tried. The Norton waterstones are OK, but, after dropping my combo 4000/8000 Norton and replacing it, I found the Norton's are now manufactured with a sharpening surface that is way out of flat. In one case I couldn't even get the entire surface flat after working on it for an hour or so. The Shapton stones don't have that problem and flatten easily with a lapping plate.

So, to get the best possible result with stones, you probably need the following:

DMT Duo Sharp Xtrax Cosars and Coarse (black and blue)
DMT Duo Sharp Fine and Very Fikne (red and green)
4000 grit Waterstone (Shapton, King, any waterstone which appears to be flat out of the box)
8000 grit Waterstone (Shatpon, King, any waterstone which is flat out of the box

Lapping plate - DMT's original plate is best - 120 grit - 10 X 3

Honing guide - Veritas MKII or Lie Nielsen Honing Guide (the expensive one for $125) or the $15 version. Any of these should work, but it is. to some extent, personal preference on which one works best for you.

Sorry this go so long but, after all of my other attempts with the Tormek and Worksharp, the results from using the combination of diamond stones for rough cutting and Shapton stones for the final finishing give superior results. The other thing I'd say is that, once you pick a method, stick with it and only it to make sure you master it. Since there are a lot of methods out there, once you start mixing them, that is when the result becomes questionable.

Hope this helped rather than confused and didn't offend anyone's sense of the perfect method. I'm saying that this is the method I'm sticking with after about 25 or more years of trying others based on great results after only about 6 months of frequent sharpening of chisels I had already sharpened.. I only wish I'd have made the switch years ago.

 

[grbmds]

I have gone through the whole range of sharpening options over the past 20 years. Within the past 1 - 2 years, I finally came to the conclusion after a lot of reading and frustration over the years, that hand sharpening with stones over the Tormek or WorkSharp for both chisels and plane blades gives me the best results of all the methods I've tried.

I currently own 2 DMT Duo-Sharp plates, one Xtra Coarse and Coarse (black and blue dots) and one with Fine and Xtra fine (Red and Green dots). The large 10 X 3 plate is really nice and, while it might be a little more convenient not to have to turn the plate over, I prefer the larger surface. If I need to resharpen the main bevel on a chisel or plane blade, I will generally start with the coarsest and move to the finest of these (from 220 mesh to 1200 mesh which I believe approximates to grit although they also indicate microns on the plates). Since diamond plates don't need flattening, they are great to use for this and, surprisingly don't take as long to get the desired result with a honing guide and periodically spraying with water to lubricate as you would think. Plus, it is not always necessary to start with the coarsest grit when the edge isn't bad to begin with.

I also own 2 Shapton Glass Stone for finishing - a 4000 and 8000. I haven't owned these very long but they are great and don't have to be flattened nearly as often as other waterstones. I still frequently flatten them with the DMT Lapping Plate just to be sure they are truly flat, but I think I obsess a bit here. There are videos online which demonstrate flattening but it's really not that difficult and doesn't take all that much time. These 2 stones will put the needed polish on the bevel to give it the best edge possible.

Then a micro-bevel is honed using only the 4000 and 8000 grit Shapton stones making sure the micro-bevel is polished like the back of the blade to essentially a mirror finish. The Shapton stones make this process a quick one.

I also use the Lapping Plate to flatten the back of chisels which have not been flattened as a first step and then move through all the diamond and Shapton stones to get a fine polish on the back.

I would recommend finishing the sharpening process with 4000 and 8000 water stones (although some go to 10000 and 12000 which I don't feel gives that much better result). They truly give the best result. I'm not an a expert but, after all the methods I've tried, I believe this hand sharpening process yields the best result. Am I perfect at it yet? No, but the result is already better than any other method I've tried.

As for honing guides, the Veritas MKII is a great guide and, for chisels I also bought the narrow bade attachment as it holds the blade from the side rather than clamping it top and bottom. This is much more secure and prevents angling due to slippage during sharpening. You can't use this with plane blades so you must use the original top/bottom clamp attachment which requires really cranking it tight  and easy blade movement to avoid cocking the blade in the holder. Another alternative is the new Lie-Nielen side clamp honing guide. It has gotten rave reviews but you will have to make your own guides to repetitively insert the blade the correct amount to get a consistent desired angle (unlike the MKII which has the bevel guide to make that a little more automatic). The other thing the MKII is good at is setting the micro-bevel angle by merely turning the side knob an locking it in to change the position of the roller.

My final recommendation is a reiteration of the fact that diamond stones strength is not the final finish polish steps required on the back, main bevel, and micro-bevel. Water stones do that best and I have recently found that the Shapton Glass Stones are  superior to the Norton's I tried. The Norton waterstones are OK, but, after dropping my combo 4000/8000 Norton and replacing it, I found the Norton's are now manufactured with a sharpening surface that is way out of flat. In one case I couldn't even get the entire surface flat after working on it for an hour or so. The Shapton stones don't have that problem and flatten easily with a lapping plate.

So, to get the best possible result with stones, you probably need the following:

DMT Duo Sharp Xtrax Cosars and Coarse (black and blue)
DMT Duo Sharp Fine and Very Fikne (red and green)
4000 grit Waterstone (Shapton, King, any waterstone which appears to be flat out of the box)
8000 grit Waterstone (Shatpon, King, any waterstone which is flat out of the box

Lapping plate - DMT's original plate is best - 120 grit - 10 X 3

Honing guide - Veritas MKII or Lie Nielsen Honing Guide (the expensive one for $125) or the $15 version. Any of these should work, but it is. to some extent, personal preference on which one works best for you.

Sorry this go so long but, after all of my other attempts with the Tormek and Worksharp, the results from using the combination of diamond stones for rough cutting and Shapton stones for the final finishing give superior results. The other thing I'd say is that, once you pick a method, stick with it and only it to make sure you master it. Since there are a lot of methods out there, once you start mixing them, that is when the result becomes questionable.

Hope this helped rather than confused and didn't offend anyone's sense of the perfect method. I'm saying that this is the method I'm sticking with after about 25 or more years of trying others based on great results after only about 6 months of frequent sharpening of chisels I had already sharpened.. I only wish I'd have made the switch years ago.

I recently submitted a question concerning a problem I had with sharpening to the guys on Shop Talk Live from Fine Woodworking. Their answer included a recommendation that it is necessary to only sharpen  the main bevel to the level before polishing. In my case that would be the 1200 grit DMT diamond stone. The next steps with the 4000 and 8000 grit Shapton stones would be for the secondary or micro-bevel only. I haven't tried that yet, but that would save some time sharpening, at least when a new main bevel needs to be re-ground.

 

[Jak147]

A while ago [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] did an excellent video on the 'scary sharp sharpening system'. I'm sure a quick search will turn it up. I think once you have the veritas honing guide any system will work. The thing I liked about peters system was that other than the veritas bit the rest is relatively cheap. You can get a complete set including a piece of glass (who doesn't have a flat piece of glass lying around?) for the price of one diamond stone. The only reason I don't use peters system myself is that I'm site based and a piece of glass with some sticky paper on it wouldn't survive a trip up the drive, never mind actually going to site!!

Edit:http://festoolownersgroup.com/hand-tools/got-me-some-decent-planes-at-last/msg382675/#msg382675
Post #3

 

[grbmds]

The only bad thing about the Veritas guide is that it is secures the blades top and bottom instead of from the side. They have come out with a side securing attachment for chisels, but most plane blades won't fit. Unless you really crank the top screw down tight there is the possibility that the Veritas guide will let the blade move slightly. It is the reason that the cheap version of the side holding guides have been around for many years and why Lie-Nielsen created their most recent high priced side guide. Having said that, as long as you pay attention to how tight the Veritas guide screw and use the side clamping attachment where possible, the Veritas guide is one of my favorite tools because you can set the angle with the supplied guide and it is always the same.

 

[bkharman]

A while ago [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] did an excellent video on the 'scary sharp sharpening system'. I'm sure a quick search will turn it up. I think once you have the veritas honing guide any system will work. The thing I liked about peters system was that other than the veritas bit the rest is relatively cheap. You can get a complete set including a piece of glass (who doesn't have a flat piece of glass lying around?) for the price of one diamond stone. The only reason I don't use peters system myself is that I'm site based and a piece of glass with some sticky paper on it wouldn't survive a trip up the drive, never mind actually going to site!!

Edit:http://festoolownersgroup.com/hand-tools/got-me-some-decent-planes-at-last/msg382675/#msg382675
Post #3

Don't use glass, use a 12x12 granite or marble tile. Works great!

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[Elmar50]

One more vote for Tormek. I purchased mine used with a Japanese waterstone. This setup is as effective with chisels and palane irons as hand sharpening with wet stones. The advantage with the Tomek is speed, convenience and consistency. We also have have a number of Japanese knives; there the Tormek has a decided advantage in being able to keep a consistent angle compared to free handing with wet stones.

 

[Stone Message]

Once I was (finally) persuaded by my late brother to try a lapping technique I soon discovered how quick and simple it is. It takes just a few seconds to set up and not much longer to do a few plane irons.

The Veritas guide does grip well - and I am the guy with arthritic fingers and wrists doing the tightening.

I sold my Tormek as soon as I realised how good a result you get using lapping. By the time you get the Tormek out, fill it with water, set up the guides and perhaps having to dress the stone you could have finished the whole job using the lapping method. Then when all the Tormek work is done you have to empty out the water and clean everything up. It also takes up a lot of room and is jolly heavy.

Peter

 

[grbmds]

I have a Tormek that sits completely unused. I should sell it but always though I might use it for something one day. Now I know that hand sharpening with the Veritas guide and stones is just as easy process wise. Plus, I actually get better results than with the Tormek. I made the mistake of trying to flatten the backs of my chisels on the side of the Tormek. All those chisels have been reflattened on my stones now and work much better. I am a victim of woodworking show demos with the Tormek. It looked so easy. Hand sharpening with stones and the guide is actually easier.

 

[bobfog]

For chisels and plane blades I can get the edge to a polished razor like sharpness in a matter of minutes with the Veritas guide and a combination of diamond stone, lapping paper and leather strop. However I've never truly mastered sharpening knife blades, so for me a Tormek type machine is useful.

 

[grbmds]

Worksharp has a knife sharpening add-on for the Worksharp or you can buy the knife sharpening tool as a stand-alone. The stand-alone is actually very good and very fast for knives. I do my 5 kitchen knives in minutes total. It does take a little practice till you get the hang of it but, once you've done it a few times, it's fast and effective.

 

[mrFinpgh]

I sharpen freehand - using diamond stones and a strop with green paste.  It seems to get things sharp enough to do what I need. 

It probably took about 2 hours of effort before it started to make sense and I could keep a consistent stroke back and forth on the stones.  For me, I enjoy the benefit of less stuff to worry about and fewer steps between realizing I need to sharpen and getting back to it.

-Adam

 

[Holmz]

The Tormek seems like more of a 'community tool', where if some friend has one then it can be used occasionally.
Once the majority of the tool is in shape then the hand stuff works, and finishing by hands seems more ideal with a superfine stone.

A big problem is when a plane is not flat on the backside.

 

[ear3]

Ended up going with the veritas mk ii honing guide and the DMT duo-sharp stones.

So far so good -- after lapping my chisels and plane irons I could see how poor a job my previous methods on the Worksharp were.  Took me some time working with the coarse stone to get the backs flat again.

The sharpness achieved by the extra fine grit (1200) is pretty good, but I'm going to add some higher grit stones to get things razor sharp and polished.

Quick question for those who use the DMT duo-sharp.  I understand that one needs less strokes on these stones once the primary bevel has been established.  But how many less?  On the Worksharp I was used to painting the bevel with a marker, so i could see once the marker was removed it was enough.  I don't have a sense yet using these stones of when enough is enough.

 

[blaszcsj]

I have the Duo set as well and I am playing around with them like you are. What grit stones did you get? I got the course and xtra course and fine/extra fine sets. I have seen some other stones up to 4000 and 6000 as well...