Sheep skin pad polishing

[otti]

Hi all,
I‘m a newbie here and also new to Festool. I bought a Rotex 150 with the purpose of sanding and finishing some of my planned epoxy/wood projects.
One of my first projects is a light box out of teak and epoxy resin (see attached photo). I have sanded everything up to 1500 grit so far and here are my questions

• Can I use the sheep skin polishing pad without any compound
• i have used Carnuba wax after sanding. Can I polish the wax with the sheep skin
• I’m planning to use Cabot’s water-based polyurethane (clear) on a wood/epoxy tray and coasters (picture attached) and want to get the shine really out of the epoxy. Can I polish that with or without a compound
• How should I go about sanding epoxy and wood projects, if the parts are too small to treat differently when sanding?
• I need to sand the epoxy at least up to 1500 grit, but the wood is enough at 240 or 400. If the wood is sanded higher, some finishes might not stick to the wood, won’t they?

Thanks everyone for your help in advance.
Otti

 

[Cheese]

A sheepskin pad is fairly aggressive and it's usually used with compound to remove paint defects such as orange peel. Finer finishes/polishes can be attained by using various foam pads which have varying degrees of cut. For a final polish a terry or microfibre bonnet over a sheepskin pad can be used.

Here's some general information and this site also offers a ton of info & products so just take a browse.
https://www.autogeek.net/temibo.html

I wouldn't use a sheepskin dry, use some cutting/polishing agent with it to keep the pad cool, sheepskin likes to burn because it generates a lot of heat although you should be ok with the RO if you're careful and take it easy.

I built a walnut countertop and took the walnut and the epoxy fill up to 1500 grit and then polished both of them out with foam sponges using various polishes.  The finish itself was beautiful but the walnut just didn't pop, it had a dirty gray color to it and the grain didn't really show up. The walnut was incredibly smooth but it was also incredibly boring.

So I took everything back down to 1500, then taped up the epoxy and brought the walnut back to 320 or 400 I believe. At that point I worked on blending the 1500 epoxy into the 320/400 walnut so that it all looked even, I then lightly polished the epoxy so that the 1500 lines disappeared and it became a smooth satin surface. Everything then got several coats of oil buffed into it using a black foam pad including the epoxy.

The 1st photo is the walnut polished.
The 2nd photo is the walnut brought back to 320/400 and oiled.
The 3rd photo is the end result.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

 

[otti]

Hi Cheese,

Thank you so much for your detailed answer - very much appreciated.

The sheep skin pad from Festool has been sold to me as the best solution for polishing wood and epoxy - clearly not correct  [mad]

I'm trying to find an equivalent of a terry or bonnet here in Australia. It seems as if the bonnets here on offer are always a whole pad and not a cover you would pull over your pad. I'm sure I will find some equivalent here.
I will also look into the various sponges Festool has for sale. They are of course expensive, being Festool, but maybe worth it if I do not find appropriate covers for my sheepskin pad.

In regards to sanding I have found as well that wood does loose its pop when sanded with too higher grit. I was hoping that there would be possibly another solution instead of sanding wood and epoxy separately and blending between. But guided by your experience this seems to be the only way. I have seen the separate sanding process on larger river tables etc, but there it is of course a bit easier to sand separately.

May I ask if you are using Festool Compounds/Agents?
Are you using different agents for the different stages of polishing and buffing? If so, which ones for which process please?
The big question is also which oil you use for a nice shine?

Many thanks again and greetings for Perth - Western Australia.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I wouldn't run the sheepskin dry ever. Its real purpose is to hold onto the compound and provide the friction to move it around. Those pads have been around for decades, long before any kind of reliable foam was ever developed. The heavier/ more open foams are effectively modern/synthetic versions of the same thing.
In the right hands and with the right products, you can get a very high gloss polish with wool, but it will never be the final. That was done by hand.
The modern stuff is easier and more forgiving.

Yes, you can "over sand" the wooden parts. Super fine sanding is for finishes, not the wood itself, especially if stain is involved. It just won't "take". It lays on the surface and wipes right off.

 

[Cheese]

Hi Cheese,
Many thanks again and greetings from Perth - Western Australia.

Well greetings from Perth it is then and  [welcome] to the FOG.  [smile]

Here are a couple of screenshots from a Festool Polishing brochure.

In the first one note the phrase: Sheepskin pad With abrasive qualities...

[attachimg=1]

And in the 2nd one they equate the sheepskin pad with the coarse yellow foam pad.

[attachimg=2]

When I first started buffing cars 50 years ago, sheepskin was all that was offered and I've certainly had run-ins with buffing through the paint on edges because of the abrasiveness of the sheepskin. The foam pads are a lot easier to use and they don't burn.

Having said that, it really depends upon the amount of gloss you want to have on the surface. Maybe the sheepskin will give you the amount of gloss you want. To answer some of your questions:

Over the years I've used 3M, Meguiars, Festool and now I'm using Menzerna products. Menzerna is used by Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Bentley and other premium European manufacturers. Corvette also exclusively uses Menzerna products. I like them because they're water based and dry clear. 3M & Meguiars products dry to a hard chalky finish, at least that was the case several years ago.

I use different Menzerna products with different foam pads. On the back of the pad I write the product that was used with it so that I never mix grit size on a particular pad. I also use a liquid pad cleaner and wash them thoroughly so a pad will last a long time as long as you don't snag it on something and tear it.

Here's the Menzerna products I use although the 3500 has now been replaced with 3800.

[attachimg=3]

The oil I used was Boos Mystery Oil originally for butcher blocks. The walnut countertop is right next to the kitchen sink so it receives its fair share of water splashes. When the water spots start to annoy me, I wipe it down with a damp rag, let it dry and re-oil it, that's probably every 9 months or so.

[attachimg=4]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That's the funny thing about a forum like this, you never know how old people are.
The beginnings of my car wet sanding and polishing was only 30 years ago. The 3M line all pretty much dried that cakey off white, at least the rubbing compounds. The "Perfect-it" foam pad polish did have a "dark paint" version that was a slate gray color. I have used a lot of different brands too Mothers, Maguires, and a few smaller specialty brands.
Since I don't do cars anymore, the only thing I ever really polish is plastics. The stuff I use for that is Novus. I originally heard about it for soft plastics, like convertible top windows, but there are others in the line.
Occasionally, some silly person will want their Corian countertop polished up to a full gloss. It's a loser, because it absolutely will not stay that way. Those solid surface materials are too soft for that. They will take a polish, but daily use will scratch them up again. You would have to be meticulous about it constantly to keep it up. Corian is just like that, if you leave it too flat/matte, it will wear in to be more shiny, too shiny and it will dull with micro scratches.
The last one I did super shiny went into a public library, worst case scenario. No one will ever take care of it like it needs.

 

[otti]

Cheese & Crazyraceguy,

Thank you guys so much for your answers and input. Reading your answers, doing more Google searches and watching an endless amount of videos, the picture now is much clearer to me.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] interesting brochure you have there from Festool. I'm not too sure if products are slightly different between the US and Austrralia, but the yellow sponge for example does not get much of a mention here and the brown one does not exist. I think they have also changed their colour coding. I have watched the (long) video about Polishing 101 and this is a very good guide. They use orange (500 grit), blue (9000 grit) and white (11000 grit) with the appropriate agent. The orange sponge can be replaced with the sheep skin, according to the video.

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] I have heard about people trying to finish stone tops to a very glossy shine and failed. Alos, interesting comment about age  [wink] I'm 55 years old by the way  [off topic]

I think my defined way will now be as follows:

• sand wood parts up to maximum 400 grit
• sand epoxy parts up to 1500
• try to blend between both materials when sanding
• clean absolutely thoroughly after sanding and before applying any finish
• finishes to be either bees wax on mainly wood surfaces, Spray on Laquer or Odies Oil for glossier finishes
• get the orange sponge and the MPA from Festool
• possibly also invest in a polishing pad for the Rotex 150
• start sanding again, but this time with higher grits as I will be working on the finish with with maybe 500 grit, 1000 grit and finish with 1500 grit (not sure if I need more steps between?)
• clean wood/epoxy off with Mineral Spirits between sands
• after 1500 grit it will look dull and that's where the polishing begins with either the orange sponge or the sheep skin and the MPA for orange colour (no dust extraction)

What do you guys think about that workflow?

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers
otti

 

[Crazyraceguy]

otti, the age comment was about Cheese buffing cars 50 years ago. That puts him at about 70 minimum. I'm just short of 60 BTW.

 

[mattgam]

Cam over at blacktail studio's has a rather good writeup on his epoxy wood finishing process and an accompanying youtube video.  it may be of interest https://www.blacktailstudio.com/blog/how-to-finish-a-table

 

[Cheese]

otti, the age comment was about Cheese buffing cars 50 years ago. That puts him at about 70 minimum. I'm just short of 60 BTW.

Actually in 4 months I'll be 74... [eek]...and so, just to prove how much of a dinosaur I really am, I'll spin this tale.

I mentioned earlier that 50 years ago sheepskin pads were the only option, well the normal/usual/everyday accepted method at the time to clean sheepskin pads was to turn the buffer upside down, turn it on high (think 2800 rpm) and rake a flat tipped screw driver across the surface 6-10 times, that was the "gentle/kind" cleaning procedure.

Those in a bigger hurry used a beer can opener, the type with the sharp point/hook to rake the sheepskin pad surface 4-5 times, my, my how times have changed.  [smile]

With those facts in hand, it's obvious why finishes on show cars back then were all hand rubbed...with their fair share of swirl marks.

 

[otti]

My sincere thanks to all of you again.
[member=73660]mattgam[/member] I had seen that video before, but my issue is the cost of Rubio Monocoat. Shipped with Amazon from the US it is very expensive.

 

[mattgam]

[member=78008]otti[/member] I totally overlooked your comments on being in Australia. Osmo also works well in that case and the same guy has a detailed overview of his process with osmo.  I've seen other Aussie's comment at it being more sanely priced so its worth a consideration

 

[otti]

Cheers [member=73660]mattgam[/member]
I will look into Osmo too.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

otti, the age comment was about Cheese buffing cars 50 years ago. That puts him at about 70 minimum. I'm just short of 60 BTW.

Actually in 4 months I'll be 74... [eek]...and so, just to prove how much of a dinosaur I really am, I'll spin this tale.

I mentioned earlier that 50 years ago sheepskin pads were the only option, well the normal/usual/everyday accepted method at the time to clean sheepskin pads was to turn the buffer upside down, turn it on high (think 2800 rpm) and rake a flat tipped screw driver across the surface 6-10 times, that was the "gentle/kind" cleaning procedure.

Those in a bigger hurry used a beer can opener, the type with the sharp point/hook to rake the sheepskin pad surface 4-5 times, my, my how times have changed.  [smile]

With those facts in hand, it's obvious why finishes on show cars back then were all hand rubbed...with their fair share of swirl marks.

That is exactly how I learned/did it. I had a special screwdriver for it, at least it started out as a screwdriver. But that was just the first phase, I used the black 3M waffle-style foam pads with perfect-it polish after that and hand glaze if someone wanted to go that far.