Shop Heat

[waltwood]

I currently have a vented kerosene heater in my shop with a small woodstove back-up. It costs me $1000 a season in kerosene now that it is $4.50 a gallon. Can someone suggest another heat system that would cost less. Shop is insulated, 1500 sq. ft. with 10 foot ceilings. I am not asking anyone to size the system I just am stating what I have. It just occurred to me I could have electric baseboard am have a much lower bill than what I currrently have and it is cheap to install.  I want a heat pump or mini-split but there are concerns about wood dust in the returns.
Thanks,
Walt

 

[rmwarren]

Check out electric radiant panels:

http://www.sshcinc.com/

Clean, very comfortable and easy to install. I had a finished room 14' by 14' in an unheated building w/ concrete floor, a 2' by 8' panel on an 8' ceiling ceiling would absolutely roast you. In an insulated shop my guess is that panel would cover 250+ SF.

RMW 

 

[Sparktrician]

Given that you'll be wanting A/C in the summer, I'd suggest a split system, but get a local tin-knocker to craft a return adapter box that can house a 3M Filtrete 16" x 25" x 4" filter and seal the joint between the filter box and the split's return side. 

 

[waltwood]

Check out electric radiant panels:

http://www.sshcinc.com/

Clean, very comfortable and easy to install. I had a finished room 14' by 14' in an unheated building w/ concrete floor, a 2' by 8' panel on an 8' ceiling ceiling would absolutely roast you. In an insulated shop my guess is that panel would cover 250+ SF.

RMW 

I have never seen them, very interesting.

 

[tiralie]

.  I want a heat pump or mini-split but there are concerns about wood dust in the returns.
Thanks,
Walt

Walt:
I would think a mini- split would be a good choice. With the unit placed high enough and good dust control and a filter you should be ok. You could use this for cooling as well.
What if anything are you using for A/C now?
Are you on a natural gas pipeline?
Natural gas is pretty cheap resource for heating.
Tim

 

[waltwood]

.  I want a heat pump or mini-split but there are concerns about wood dust in the returns.
Thanks,
Walt

Walt:
I would think a mini- split would be a good choice. With the unit placed high enough and good dust control and a filter you should be ok. You could use this for cooling as well.
What if anything are you using for A/C now?
Are you on a natural gas pipeline?
Natural gas is pretty cheap resource for heating.
Tim

We were posting at about the same time.
We don't have natural gas but I use propane in the house for 4 appliances. I have a 500 gallon buried tank in the yard. It also seems expensive to use but I know it would be cheaper than kerosene.

 

[waltwood]

I don't know what happened to a post I just submitted but I have a AC window unit installed in the wall and It makes it more comfortable by reducing the humidity but it is undersized. I can tolerate the heat better than the cold.

I currently have a mini split in an addition in my house and it is great. I think dust would be a problem with one of them though because you could not add a pre- filter. I have added several filters to other  types of shop heat but with the intake opening and closing I don't see how you could do it to a mini split.

 

[Alli]

If you have a lot of saw dust, would a saw dust heating system be feasible? I've never seen one but know they are about, I just like the idea of using up a waste product to heat up a building that could cost you to get rid of.

 

[roadking]

Try solar. I have a 24 x32 garage with 7 ft backwall going to 15 ft front wall. I built 4 solar panels approx 27 x 76 x6" each from patio door glass and 4 layers of expanded metal painted black and 1 inch rigid insulation. They have fans connected to relays that kick in when the solar panel reaches 135F and cuts out when the temp drops to about 120F. Today it is +4C ( about 40F) outside and the garage is about 17/18c (about 66/67F) on the inside with no supplementary(electric) heat turned on. Glycol based system works even better as liquid will absorb 2700 times more heat than the air does. Panels were one of my first uses of the domino 500.

 

[waltwood]

If you have a lot of saw dust, would a saw dust heating system be feasible? I've never seen one but know they are about, I just like the idea of using up a waste product to heat up a building that could cost you to get rid of.

I have been burning wood for 40 years and have just gotten tired of the hassle. I was going to remove the woodstove I currently have in there because of that and fire concerns. I used to produce a lot of shavings and no longer do but thank you for the suggestion.

 

[waltwood]

Try solar. I have a 24 x32 garage with 7 ft backwall going to 15 ft front wall. I built 4 solar panels approx 27 x 76 x6" each from patio door glass and 4 layers of expanded metal painted black and 1 inch rigid insulation. They have fans connected to relays that kick in when the solar panel reaches 135F and cuts out when the temp drops to about 120F. Today it is +4C ( about 40F) outside and the garage is about 17/18c (about 66/67F) on the inside with no supplementary(electric) heat turned on. Glycol based system works even better as liquid will absorb 2700 times more heat than the air does. Panels were one of my first uses of the domino 500.

I had forgotten about this option. I have plans somewhere for 4' x 8' passive solar panels. The long wall of the shop faces south almost directly and there are no obstructions (trees, etc.). Sounds like the liquid transfer is a better option. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[land_kel]

I use radiant floor heating cables.  Keeps the shop a nice working temp, and all items are warm, not to touch, but to use.

Programable stat, 4" rigid foam on structural base then 4" conc. with cables 2" in.

Cost of power here is .13 kWh

I'm happy with the room comfort, and the power cost is what it is.

 

[roadking]

Radiant floor heating works great with solar. Wish I had the lines laid in my floor when it was done

 

[wow]

I think everybody got a rude awakening about heating costs this winter. And I also don't think there is 'yet' one winning answer.

I use LP with a high efficiency furnace. A real benefit to the HE units is that the combustion chamber is completely sealed, so no shop dust is ever able to be ignited because it only circulates through the fan, not the combustion chamber. That was a big selling point for me.

The other thing I like about LP is that you are far more self-sufficient in the case of a disaster - natural or otherwise - than almost any other system. I have a diesel generator connected to the house and the shop, and can run for days or weeks without electricity and several MONTHS without needing a propane fill. Living in the tundra (almost) this makes me sleep better on those cold winter nights.

 

[batcave]

Not that it helps you, but I moved my shop to my basement for this reason. I already ran a dehumidifier down there. There is no heating or cooling system and it stays between 65-72 all year. I was using a mr heater big max Lp on the ceiling in the garage. Like stated before, there are many variables that change cost from year to year. One year to the next will have a different leader. The only true way to save is to go without, which is no fun at all.

Kevin

 

[waltwood]

I think everybody got a rude awakening about heating costs this winter. And I also don't think there is 'yet' one winning answer.

I use LP with a high efficiency furnace. A real benefit to the HE units is that the combustion chamber is completely sealed, so no shop dust is ever able to be ignited because it only circulates through the fan, not the combustion chamber. That was a big selling point for me.

The other thing I like about LP is that you are far more self-sufficient in the case of a disaster - natural or otherwise - than almost any other system. I have a diesel generator connected to the house and the shop, and can run for days or weeks without electricity and several MONTHS without needing a propane fill. Living in the tundra (almost) this makes me sleep better on those cold winter nights.

Can you tell me more about this type of gas furnace. How does it circulate the air? Is this the type used  in automotive repair shops?

 

[wow]

I think everybody got a rude awakening about heating costs this winter. And I also don't think there is 'yet' one winning answer.

I use LP with a high efficiency furnace. A real benefit to the HE units is that the combustion chamber is completely sealed, so no shop dust is ever able to be ignited because it only circulates through the fan, not the combustion chamber. That was a big selling point for me.

The other thing I like about LP is that you are far more self-sufficient in the case of a disaster - natural or otherwise - than almost any other system. I have a diesel generator connected to the house and the shop, and can run for days or weeks without electricity and several MONTHS without needing a propane fill. Living in the tundra (almost) this makes me sleep better on those cold winter nights.

Can you tell me more about this type of gas furnace. How does it circulate the air? Is this the type used  in automotive repair shops?

Sure. Here's the best picture I could find of a similar furnace (Mine's a Rheem brand, but any good manufacturer has a similar version) where you can see what's going on:

[attachimg=#]

The key thing to note is that it has what's called an 'induced draft' blower. The easy way to tell that is to identify the two PVC pipes. One brings outside air into the combustion chamber, and the other removes it. You know it's high efficiency because the exhaust it cool enough that it can exit via a PVC pipe - there is no chimney required. Another advantage is that your furnace room does not have to have cold 'make-up air' coming into it like was required with older gas furnaces.

In the picture it's easy to see that the furnace has two parts. The top 'half' is gasketed and sealed with screws - that's your combustion chamber.

The bottom part has only two thumb screws to hold the cover on - that's the 'big' blower that pushes the air throughout the house - or in my case, the shop. The screws are there so you can easily change the filter and clean it. On mine I also had them install an external filter box that holds cheap disposable filters and allows me to change them without even opening the filter door. I have only once changed the internal filter in over 10 years.

I don't want to start sounding like a salesman or product brochure, so I'll stop here - unless you have more questions?

 

[waltwood]

In November I had a Heating Contractor install a 2 1/2 ton Fujitsu mini- split in my shop. It has exceeded my expectations because the heat is very even throughout the shop and it is 50' long. I removed the Toyostove Laser and woodstove and it is much more comfortable now. It has a dehumidification mode which I will run in the summer.The shop has its own electric meter so it is easy to determine the charge or total cost of running the unit. It is half the cost of kerosene.

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=2]

 

[shaneymack]

I just installed a ceiling mounted stelpro dragon. Works great.
http://m.stelpro.com/items/att_details.asp?id=V¶µ¤†/tqmw

 

[shaneymack]

Here is a better link to the pdf...

en.stelpro.com/contenu/ca/pdf/.../DR.pdf