Shop Heat

Alli said:
If you have a lot of saw dust, would a saw dust heating system be feasible? I've never seen one but know they are about, I just like the idea of using up a waste product to heat up a building that could cost you to get rid of.

I've got one of those, I don't really generate enough saw dust to keep it going 24/7but one load can keep the burner going for a good long day. Can top it up with off cuts too, but it seems to just amble along fairly happily with shavings and sawdust.

http://tecnikstoves.co.uk/

Replaced my wood burner (which needed topping up all the time during the day) with it and haven't looked back.
 
waltwood said:
In November I had a Heating Contractor install a 2 1/2 ton Fujitsu mini- split in my shop. It has exceeded my expectations because the heat is very even throughout the shop and it is 50' long. I removed the Toyostove Laser and woodstove and it is much more comfortable now. It has a dehumidification mode which I will run in the summer.The shop has its own electric meter so it is easy to determine the charge or total cost of running the unit. It is half the cost of kerosene.

This is really interesting!

So this is just a heat unit, not A/C as well? Most these mini-splits I see are dual function.

Edit: I found their ultra-low temp one that stops condensate from freezing, this was the exact solution I was looking for.

http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/wallmountedRLS2H.htm
 
No, this is AC also but I do not require much of that. I only ran my window unit mounted in the wall about 5 times a summer. But after removing that I put another clamp rack in its place.
Walt 
 
You'll love the Fujitsu!  You won't regret spending a little more for it.  I've had a 2 ton unit in my garage for just over 3 years now and it's been flawless!  The efficiency is incredible.  It will suck down 4kw/h to reach target temps, but only uses 1-2kw/h to maintain when outdoor temps are 25F.  And this is in a garage with two large leaky doors.  I even tested it down to 3F and it was still pumping out heat (rated down to 5F) at a similar output compared to what I see at 15F.
 
Mini-split is the best option for heat and cooling.  It's the most efficient.  Look into Daikin.  It's the global leader for this type of unit.  They have very high seer ratings and are much more affordable then the more popular options here in the US.  I run a 9000BTU unit that's 18 seer.  In my first shop I didn't have air cleaners running but I had a very good filter setup for the unit.  The unit got a lot of dust in it through even the smallest of air leaks.  In this shop I don't have any filters installed on it but have 2 air cleaners running.  They are positioned so that the suction is near the mini split and exhaust away from it.  The mini split has stayed fairly clean like this.  Of coarse it also helps that I'm now using Festool sanders so there's a lot less fine dust to control.

Just a few ideas about the above install.   

I would have installed the indoor unit much higher on the wall.  That would allow for better airflow and mixture of the air in the space.  It's not a big deal but would make a difference.

I can understand putting the outside unit on a stand to keep the coil cleaner.  It's actually a very good idea.  I suggest to customers to mount it on the side of the house.  They make mounting brackets for that.  These units only require a few inches clearance on the inlet side for airflow.  I certainly hope that is treated lumber that was used to make the stand for the outdoor unit.  That plywood is going to rot long before the unit needs to be changed.

Why put the roof over it?  A roof isn't needed unless there is a danger of falling limbs hitting the unit.  Your particular setup doesn't inhabit airflow.  However, if you're using the mini split more for heat then why block the sun from hitting it.  The unit could absorb the solar heating and transfer that heat into your building.  I assume that the unit wasn't put closer to where the line set comes out because the roof would have blocked the window?  Always use as short a line set as possible.

Other then those points the install looks extremely good and very professional.

FYI, if anyone has a roof or deck over an outside unit that blows the air straight up then you should either remove what's above the unit or relocate your unit.  You're not helping the life expectancy by protecting your unit from the elements because these are designed to last a long time when exposed to the elements.  What you are doing is inhibiting the airflow and reducing the efficiency of the unit.  The roof or deck forces the unit to recirculate the air causing the air being used to get hotter during the summer months and colder during the winters months (for heat pumps).  This will reduce the life expectancy of your unit because it's raising the pressures in the system making the unit work harder. 
 
Greg M said:
Mini-split is the best option for heat and cooling.  It's the most efficient.  Look into Daikin.  It's the global leader for this type of unit.  They have very high seer ratings and are much more affordable then the more popular options here in the US.  I run a 9000BTU unit that's 18 seer.  In my first shop I didn't have air cleaners running but I had a very good filter setup for the unit.  The unit got a lot of dust in it through even the smallest of air leaks.  In this shop I don't have any filters installed on it but have 2 air cleaners running.  They are positioned so that the suction is near the mini split and exhaust away from it.  The mini split has stayed fairly clean like this.  Of coarse it also helps that I'm now using Festool sanders so there's a lot less fine dust to control.

Just a few ideas about the above install.   

I would have installed the indoor unit much higher on the wall.  That would allow for better airflow and mixture of the air in the space.  It's not a big deal but would make a difference.

I can understand putting the outside unit on a stand to keep the coil cleaner.  It's actually a very good idea.  I suggest to customers to mount it on the side of the house.  They make mounting brackets for that.  These units only require a few inches clearance on the inlet side for airflow.  I certainly hope that is treated lumber that was used to make the stand for the outdoor unit.  That plywood is going to rot long before the unit needs to be changed.

Why put the roof over it?  A roof isn't needed unless there is a danger of falling limbs hitting the unit.  Your particular setup doesn't inhabit airflow.  However, if you're using the mini split more for heat then why block the sun from hitting it.  The unit could absorb the solar heating and transfer that heat into your building.  I assume that the unit wasn't put closer to where the line set comes out because the roof would have blocked the window?  Always use as short a line set as possible.

Other then those points the install looks extremely good and very professional.

FYI, if anyone has a roof or deck over an outside unit that blows the air straight up then you should either remove what's above the unit or relocate your unit.  You're not helping the life expectancy by protecting your unit from the elements because these are designed to last a long time when exposed to the elements.  What you are doing is inhibiting the airflow and reducing the efficiency of the unit.  The roof or deck forces the unit to recirculate the air causing the air being used to get hotter during the summer months and colder during the winters months (for heat pumps).  This will reduce the life expectancy of your unit because it's raising the pressures in the system making the unit work harder.

The head is a little low but still within spec. Not sure what it would do better being up higher because hot air rises. It distributes the warm air around the shop very good.
Outside unit. I built the roof over it because the guy who installed it said they last longer if covered and the roof run-off can really shorten their life expectancy. This unit is away from the overhang enough that the roof run-off does not land on it. But, I have never seen another one with a cover over it so it is probably not necessary unless you have a large stand of Loblolly pines over top of it like mine does. The needles were  getting stuck in the coils, clogging the air flow and were difficult to remove. Also I thought the cover was a neat design.
 
Stand is treated lumber and ply is 3/4" group 1 AB marine left over from 2 boats I built. They are holding up great being wet all the time.
 
waltwood said:
The head is a little low but still within spec. Not sure what it would do better being up higher because hot air rises. It distributes the warm air around the shop very good.
Outside unit. I built the roof over it because the guy who installed it said they last longer if covered and the roof run-off can really shorten their life expectancy. This unit is away from the overhang enough that the roof run-off does not land on it. But, I have never seen another one with a cover over it so it is probably not necessary unless you have a large stand of Loblolly pines over top of it like mine does. The needles were  getting stuck in the coils, clogging the air flow and were difficult to remove. Also I thought the cover was a neat design.

Not that the indoor unit won't work well were you have it.  Mounting it higher is nitpicking.  The intake is on the top and it blows down at about a 45 angle in heating if it's like the ones I've installed.  Getting closer to where the heat ends up and forcing it towards the floor mixes the air better.

The installer was wrong in what he told you.  Those outside units can take all kinds of weather and still last a long time although salt air will shorten their life.  However, your reasoning for having the roof over it is a logical reason to have it and the way you built it helps.  I could tell by the picture that it was far enough from the building to not have runoff hitting the unit but even if it did it wouldn't present a problem. 

Like I said, it looks like a very good installation.  My 2 cents was more for other people that will look at this thread in the future.  That mini split will save you a lot of money over what you were using.  I'll bet it pays for itself in a few short years.
 
Thanks for the input and compliment. I am figuring it would pay for itself in 4 years compared to the Toyostove but I am warmer!
 
About the line set length and distance from the indoor unit, Fujitsu recommends a minimum 5m length on my unit and most likely his as well.  They provide an adjustment (refrigerant) only if the length exceeds 20m.  Just eyeballing his picture it appears it's just above the minimum recommended. 
 
RKA said:
About the line set length and distance from the indoor unit, Fujitsu recommends a minimum 5m length on my unit and most likely his as well.  They provide an adjustment (refrigerant) only if the length exceeds 20m.  Just eyeballing his picture it appears it's just above the minimum recommended.

I've never come across a unit that required a minimum line set length even close to that long.  Most standard (whole house systems) come with enough freon for up to 15ft of line set and no minimum length that I'm aware of.  The Daikins that I've installed come with enough freon for up to 33ft of line set with a minimum length of 4.9ft and max of 65ft of line set. 

Still doesn't change the fact that you should always use the shortest line set length that you can.

The minimum length probably has to do with the amount of freon that comes with the system.  A line set that's too short would mean too much freon.  You can use a shorter line set as long as you remove the freon and weigh in the proper amount for the installed line set length.  Of coarse it's a lot easier to just coil up some line set if you have too.

BTW, while looking up this information I found that a canopy, designed exactly like the one in the pictures above, is recommended for mini splits that are located in heavy snowfall areas.  Of coarse that doesn't pertain to my area or any top discharge units.  Excellent job Walt!
 
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