Short review of countersinks.

I'd love a 3.5 or 4mm hinge centre as the 5mm is a bit big although the quality is really good..  I have lost count of the cheapo types that I've binned for either falling to bits or jamming up as they don't clear the chaff.

I have the 08 Centrtec outfit and find it very good, the drill bits are really good quality, although it could do with a few blank spaces for hinge centres and countersinks. With a bit of shuffling around its possible to store a few extra bits in there as well.

It is really handy to take drill and Centrotec together on the job rather than run back and forth to my van for drill, screw driver bits etc. That's what I love about Festool they seem to have a system for all of their gear.
 
Rob, do you have any pictures of this store and their huge display?  Would love to check it out.  Always looking to improve.
 
Sean, I don't have photo's, sorry. In terms of floor space it is not huge, but they do have pretty much all that Festool sell in the UK on display and in stock.
They even have the large boom arm that costs several thousand GBP! (you have to look up to see it as it is fixed to the back wall and reaches out across showroom.) The layout is well thought out and there is plenty of walk space between the displays and shelving units.
I am glad I don't live as close to it as the Sittingbourne Axi' as I would end up there most Saturday's and spend too much!

Rob.
 
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits "feel" like a very decent quality HSS-G but don't "look" like it.
Usually HSS-G ( a very high quality HSS substrate with a substantially heightened Cobalt content ) has a slightly bronze tint that develops during the tempering process.
As the tempering process has a negligeable affect on the sizing, HSS-G tools are usually tempered after grinding, the coloration serves as a distinction from "normal" lower grade HSS steels.
It is however entirely possible to (re) grind after tempering, that would leave a standard blank steel appearance.

HSS qualities vary wildly. Even steels that show a perfectly similar composition when analysed via mass-spectography, can vary in edge retention as much as 1000(!) percent...
It's all in the grainsize and temperature control.
Good HSS rocks! Bad HSS..... not so much. HSS is developed to significantly "up" the edge retention in higher temperatures.
That USED to mean "when drilling in steel and the likes" but who hasn't trashed a CV bit losing it's temper in hardwood? Especially high-silica species like Teak and the likes ?
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits are top-notch. Edge retention is super, even when "the goin' gets tough". This leads to lower cutting temperatures, and cleaner cuts.

Regards,

Job
 
I use the 3,5mm adjustable countersink drill bit to help me in making precise assembly of loudspeakercabinets for a friend's rental-disco-something.
Works very nice and it seems more precise contrary to normal buy it Saturday-afternoon-stuff. So I'm satisfied.
Sometimes I use the two seperate countersinks when looking carefully at small narrow stuff that I have to keep control of. Very nice and sharp too. No marks or scruffs.

Cheers,
Jacques.
 
jvsteenb said:
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits "feel" like a very decent quality HSS-G but don't "look" like it.
Usually HSS-G ( a very high quality HSS substrate with a substantially heightened Cobalt content ) has a slightly bronze tint that develops during the tempering process.
As the tempering process has a negligeable affect on the sizing, HSS-G tools are usually tempered after grinding, the coloration serves as a distinction from "normal" lower grade HSS steels.
It is however entirely possible to (re) grind after tempering, that would leave a standard blank steel appearance.

HSS qualities vary wildly. Even steels that show a perfectly similar composition when analysed via mass-spectography, can vary in edge retention as much as 1000(!) percent...
It's all in the grainsize and temperature control.
Good HSS rocks! Bad HSS..... not so much. HSS is developed to significantly "up" the edge retention in higher temperatures.
That USED to mean "when drilling in steel and the likes" but who hasn't trashed a CV bit losing it's temper in hardwood? Especially high-silica species like Teak and the likes ?
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits are top-notch. Edge retention is super, even when "the goin' gets tough". This leads to lower cutting temperatures, and cleaner cuts.

Regards,

Job

This is quite right. HSS is still high-carbon steel, but with alloys that make it more heat resistant. But in the end, these are very generic terms as Job has pointed out. It is a little bit like the old Crocodile Dundee line, "That's not a knife, this is a knife." Festool spec's a very high quality HSS that has pretty good edge retention at elevated temperatures, but the most important criteria for long life in any steel tool is keeping heat generation down, followed by avoiding mechanical shock like hitting a nail or concrete. We tend to think the cutting edge 'burns up' on these materials but it is really blunted by mechanical shock, and then the now dulled edge generates excess heat before we can react and shut it down. If one could catch the damage on the first impact it would look quite different than it does after two or three more revolutions. Hardness is only one variable in performance and not the most important in most cases.
 
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?

thanks
 
pixelated said:
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?

thanks

In a word, no. I think a good way to create counterbores is to start the hole with a Brad point bit that matches the diameter of your plug. Drill to the depth you want for the plug and then drill the hole for the screw. You can make it as complicated as you want depending on the type of head on the screw, meaning whether it has a flat shoulder or a head that requires a countersink. If you have room a square shoulder screw will require less work as it can bear on the flat at the bottom of your plug diameter.
 
AA's aren't all the same size, there is quite some variation. The Sanyo Eneloops are a fair bit smaller than the GP 2700 AA's to the point that the latter don't fit an AA Maglite but the Eneloops do. Nominal size should be D14 x 50 [mm]  [tongue]

speed said:
nice review, just looked at the price [eek] not much change from 100 gbp?

if you are going for more bits it maybe worth looking for a 07/08 centrotec sys set, they sometimes pop up on ebay for
 
pixelated said:
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?

I also follow the method that Greg outlined. 🙏  By drilling the recess for the plug first with a brad point drill, you now have a center for the pilot hole.  [big grin]  For screws, I just use Torx drive flat head screws manufactured by GRK or Spax.
 

Attachments

  • 4645.jpg
    4645.jpg
    2.1 MB · Views: 769
  • 3464.JPG
    3464.JPG
    1.6 MB · Views: 764
[member=7330]Rob-GB[/member] any changes in your opinion of Festool countersink bits?

Has the availability or range changed since this was first posted in 2010?

I will very shortly need to precisely drill and countersink hundreds of holes in 10mm custom bent acrylic panels for 5mm flathead screws and I want to line up the best tools for the job.

Any advise is appreciated!

 
Michael Kellough said:
Has the availability or range changed since this was first posted in 2010?

I will very shortly need to precisely drill and countersink hundreds of holes in 10mm custom bent acrylic panels for 5mm flathead screws and I want to line up the best tools for the job.

Initially I really liked the Festool offerings, however after a little aluminum work I find they dull rapidly. I feel they're a wood only countersink. [sad]

I now use KEO zero flute countersinks for aluminum, plastic & brass. They're made from cobalt so they hold up really well. They're also cheaper than Festool, are made in the USA and come in 7 different sizes along with 4 different angles. The only downside is the traditional round shank.
https://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView...45117488&contentPath=/sales-catalogs/big-book

For deeper countersinks, I've used spotting drills, they're a lot faster than a countersink and are more suited for the application. Specifically Hertel in cobalt with an 82º angle. That's the same angle as a typical flat head machine screw.
https://www.mscdirect.com/FlyerView...59919027&contentPath=/sales-catalogs/big-book

The photos below show some dominos I made from 10mm x 20mm aluminum with a spotting drill used for the countersunk holes.
 

Attachments

  • 4981.jpg
    4981.jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 779
  • 4987.jpg
    4987.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 778
Although it doesn't feature a carbide countersink, I wonder how Wolfcraft's (a.k.a Reisser's) German-made 2544000 3.2-12mm depth-stopped countersink stacks up?

2544000_1.jpg


It receives decent reviews on Amazon.de and is also available via Amazon USA.

Then there are the various-sized Colt/Fisch/Riss French-made "Zeromark" versions:

miebach_zeromark_small.jpg


Famag also sells individual and a set of non-TCT depth-stopped countersinks (the latter of which, like the Fisch design, utilizes a single interchangeable depth stop and different sizes of counter sinks/pilot bits). However, Famag doesn't manufacture them. Instead, I'm guessing Fisch does given that the design of the Zeromark is patented and the Famag-branded version - brass depth stop not withstanding - looks incredibly similar to the Zeromark. here's the relevant page in their latest catalog.

Alternatively, it might be possible to pair the correct size of the following Japanese-made Star-M depth stops (drill bits not included) with your existing countersink(s):

star-m_depth_stop.jpg


Either way, all of the above feature bearings that the stops spin on and are, depending on the make, about half (or, in the case of the Wolfcraft, even less than half) the cost of the Festool offerings. However, again, none feature carbide cutters. But, come to think of it, neither apparently do Festool's.

Amazon sells the Wolfcraft:https://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-2544000-3-2-12mm-Starter-Countersink/dp/B002OHNH16#customerReviews

...as does the folllowing eBay seller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wolfcraft-...32476385?epid=28012065012&hash=item238f90a3e1:g:m6QAAOSwrP9Z1783

The Colt & Riss offerings, however, are a little more difficult to find. There is one ebay.de seller that may, if asked, ship to the U.S.:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Colt-Terasse...enker-n-Wahl/201961925985?hash=item2f05de6d61:m:mbDB8XJheuOMheROHm4cxgg

The differently named but identical product to the Colt version (known as the Risch Flooring Kit) - which is a nice idea since since it includes a single depth stop that can be fitted to any of the included countersinks - can be purchased from Dieter here:
https://www.fine-tools.com/terrassendielenbohrer.html

Also, according to the Colt website, there are two U.S. importers, though not sure if they stock the countersink. They are:
http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/

...and:
http://www.woodhat.com/

On the other hand, Star-M depth stops can be had at closeout pricing here.

As far as the market goes for depth-stopped countersinks that feature carbide cutters (and, in at least one case, carbide pilot bits) I know of a couple made in Australia options:

CARB-I-TOOL SMART TUNGSTEN CARBIDE - Numerous Australian eBay sellers are willing to ship to N.A. (examples).

[Pilot bit and counter sink are both TCT and the tool is listed as "impact ready"] Sutton Tools/P&N Quickbit TCT Cut-Smart - available via eBay here.

Finally, by far the least expensive carbide-tipped ("TCT") option (at least for those of us in N.A.) are the two versions (as available in multiple sizes) that are produced by the Israeli fabricator WPW Engineering and that are distributed by Amana Tool (and sold by ToolsToday and ToolsToday, Lee Valley and Amazon (and here), among others). Depending how one feels about about the goals of the BDS movement, I suppose these might possibly be considered an option.

I think that the version sold by festoolshop.ca under the brand "AtMac" is one and the same, albeit with the addition of a Centrotec shank.

 
 
Hi folks,
I'm a relatively new member of the Festool community (and first time poster here!). I bought this BSTA countersink with depth stop, it just arrived. I've got the 4mm version and it looks great. Quick question though, I want to set the depth to about 30mm as I'm building a coffee table. It seems to me that the shallowest I can go is about 60mm, how do I adjust this? Or have I got a drill bit that's just too long?
Cheers, Glen
 
I assume you have the BSTA HS D 4 L60 CE countersunk (202392). And that's the long one.
The shorter BSTA ones are only available in Ø3.5, Ø4.5 or Ø5.
You can replace the drill itself with any shorter drill Ø4, you only have to grind of the flat part like in the picture below.
219b950a-75c5-11e6-80d7-005056b31774_800_533.jpg

b75cb16c-2419-11e5-80cf-005056b31774_800_533.jpg
 
I know an old thread but asking this here to keep it all together.

I found that the Star-M Drill Stoppers are available from Taylor Toolworks. They list sizes from 3 to 30mm and the price is reasonable. They are only available in metric but any reason why these would not work with imperial bits? I realize because of the difference in diameter the stop will not be perfectly centered on the bit but I would think its close enough not to be a problem. Anyone tried these with imperial bits and did you have any problems.
https://taytools.com/products/star-...r-bit-from-3mm-to-30mm?variant=32452194861143
 
The description says the stops can be used with up to .5mm difference in size. That should cover most in-mm drill size differences.
 
Back
Top