Short review of the carvex 420

ART at WORK said:
Hi
I have used the 420 now for about 8 hours, not a really long time and I now start to have a problem with the Strobe light.
It started off fine. I was very impressed by the blade standing still and the strong light.
Then by the last lot of cutting in 18mm birch ply the Strobe was out of sink. The blade was moving looked a bit like vibrating and the strobe was flashing when the blade holder was at the bottom of the stroke which causes a shadow over the blade.
Less visability.

Then I noticed the the blade wasn't stopping at the top anymore.
JMB mentioned this happening with his as he was having trouble getting the eject function to work " so you have to switch the carvex on and leave it on for a bit so it calibrates its self so when you turn it off it stops with the blade up so then you can then eject the blade."
How soon did this problem arise with your carvex JMB?
Has anyone else had issues with the strobe light not working. I tried pushing the blade back up to the top and starting a fresh. Only lasted a few moment before going out of sink again.

I will fiddle about with it tomorrow and see If I can get it working again. Try the turn its light on and then only strobe. Need the manual to check the sequence to do this.
Or its the send it back road I guess. As I keep saying the light was an important sales feature for me. If it f ed up after 5 years I would say ok but 5 hours is a little soon.

Pip
Click to expand...

It pretty much started when I first had it.  I also mentioned the light on another topic somewhere not sure if you read that one but I also mention about the light can actually be more of a pain than of any use.  Like you mentioned it goes out of sink and u end up not being able to see where your going.  The updated version of the 400 and I would assume the 420  you can turn the light off if you wanted to.  I have the older older model and I can not.  I first thought the light was amazing especially when the blade stood still but that pretty much never happens any more with mine.   

When I try and show people I end up turning the carvex on and off 15 times or more to try and get the light into sink to show them a blade which looks like its not moving.
When it does happen I feel like touching the blade don't know why just I get drawn into the blade lol.

About the blade not stopping at the top..........

It does it if your battery runs flat

It does it when you hit something hard and you get bounced out of the work piece

It does it if you turn the jig saw of while still cutting

It does it when it feels like it.

JMB
 
jmb this may or may not have occurred to you why don't you send the 400 back for an upgrade on the electrics or better still angle for the 420 as a direct replacement, i bet even if the guarantee has expired tts would perhaps replace it seeing as you like many others bought in on the 400 early days , would seem the right thing for tts to do.
 
green fever said:
jmb this may or may not have occurred to you why don't you send the 400 back for an upgrade on the electrics or better still angle for the 420 as a direct replacement, i bet even if the guarantee has expired tts would perhaps replace it seeing as you like many others bought in on the 400 early days , would seem the right thing for tts to do.
Click to expand...

Yes I have already asked my Dealer  bit of a shock normally hes really helpfull and willing BUT he aint got back to me and been a week now.    

I told him I want a replacement a 420  he said  you can only have replacement if you have it repaired 3 times ill just send it back 3 times lol.   I said well what the point its a poor design so no repair will make it better  he told me only some models where bad  not all.  I told him how does da work cus if thats true when they repair them then it should be perfect but it aint cus you cant fix a bad design.

So I am not very happy.      I have bought ALOT of festool and  I have got 3 of my mates I work with onto festool now and they have got a couple of people onto festool!  

BUT I wont be doing that any more!   I will now be telling every one its not that good even if it is good I dont care that I am lying about the tools which are actually very good I will still tell people its not and ill ask my mates to do the same untill I am happy again.  
JMB
 
HEY JMB the three repairs is a myth trust me on this one , i think your dealer is playing you along and as for the money he takes from you and your friends i would remind him of your past and present custom , if not future custom, take your hard earned elsewhere , and let him know why, green.
 
JMB,
I'm a real Festool fanatic - I've got over £15k of their kit. The Carvex 400 was in danger of turning me against. Like you, I have 'sold' countless Festools to others. The Carvex was in danger of making me refuse to buy any more of their kit. Festool France 'stepped up to the plate' as they say in the US and gave me a 420 as a replacement for my 400 that went back for a 4 th time. I'm still not convinced its the Holy Grail of jigsaws (and they put it in the old systainer and forgot the allen key) but they restored my faith in the brand. I don't expect they know just how much that gesture was worth to them. Let TTS in the UK know how you feel. I would like to think they would do the same. (I was so completely pxxxed off with them that I contacted Shane who gave me an email address for the head of TTS here. That seemed to get things moving.)
No company is perfect, but I think that given my recent contact with Festool, they are worth giving a second chance.
Sometimes you have to throw your weight around. I read that you are interested in Felder. I've got Felder kit and had ordered (and paid a deposit on) an FB600 bandsaw. The salesman was trying to sell me a US spec machine - no good here in France. But I couldn't get any sense out of him. By chance I collared the MD of Felder UK at W10 and asked him the question. By the time I had got back home, the Austrians had got it sorted. OK, so the salesman here should be lynched, but we all mess up sometimes. Give them the chance to make it right. If they do, shout their praises from the rooftops. If they don't, give them all they deserve. (If it was my business, I would have recalled all the 400's sold and either offered a refund or a 420. Yes it would have cost a bit, but the positive PR when you own up to your mistakes and try to,put them right is, IMHO priceless)
Richard
(sorry to have rambled on)
 
i think a total recall would have damaged the reputation of the brand. i agree that it shows that they want to fix their mistaks but in this case i think it would have shown everyone that there was a mistake. most festool users in ireland and uk (probably the rest of eu at least) dont know about the fog adn dont read about all the problems that a lot of 400s have. most (i presume ) that their 400 jigsaw is just not as good as they expected .
they should replace all the 400s thow. even those ones that 'work'.

jmb. shout a bit louder. if you get your rep involved  your dealer will definetly play ball. afterall it wont cost him anything to change it  but remind him that it will cost him if he doesnt.
i went into my local builders providers( 2nd one in town but i rarely use them because they are as thick as a short plank and have attatudes to match) anyway i asked for an account. no problem she said just get the boss to orgasnise it when he comes back. fillled in the forms etc. 3 weeks later no phone call but i was in anyway so i asked about it. she said noone is getting a new account no matter who it is(total rubish). i just laughed and said to her as i walked out the door that i would take my money somewhere else.
turns out the main man over ordering everything heard me and  rang me back (god only knows what he went throw to find my number) . now i have an account with a 4000 euro limit.
dont be afraid to stand up for yourself.
 
richard.selwyn said:
JMB,
I'm a real Festool fanatic - I've got over £15k of their kit. The Carvex 400 was in danger of turning me against. Like you, I have 'sold' countless Festools to others. The Carvex was in danger of making me refuse to buy any more of their kit. Festool France 'stepped up to the plate' as they say in the US and gave me a 420 as a replacement for my 400 that went back for a 4 th time. I'm still not convinced its the Holy Grail of jigsaws (and they put it in the old systainer and forgot the allen key) but they restored my faith in the brand. I don't expect they know just how much that gesture was worth to them. Let TTS in the UK know how you feel. I would like to think they would do the same. (I was so completely pxxxed off with them that I contacted Shane who gave me an email address for the head of TTS here. That seemed to get things moving.)
No company is perfect, but I think that given my recent contact with Festool, they are worth giving a second chance.
Sometimes you have to throw your weight around. I read that you are interested in Felder. I've got Felder kit and had ordered (and paid a deposit on) an FB600 bandsaw. The salesman was trying to sell me a US spec machine - no good here in France. But I couldn't get any sense out of him. By chance I collared the MD of Felder UK at W10 and asked him the question. By the time I had got back home, the Austrians had got it sorted. OK, so the salesman here should be lynched, but we all mess up sometimes. Give them the chance to make it right. If they do, shout their praises from the rooftops. If they don't, give them all they deserve. (If it was my business, I would have recalled all the 400's sold and either offered a refund or a 420. Yes it would have cost a bit, but the positive PR when you own up to your mistakes and try to,put them right is, IMHO priceless)
Richard
(sorry to have rambled on)
Click to expand...

No your right!  

I will do!  If I like a tool ill tell every one if I hate a tool I tell every one works both ways so if festool do step up ill be more than happy to retract my comments and give them praises.

I have let people use my TS to show them what it can do and they went out and bought one cus no mater how many times I told them how good it was they just never really listened untill they used it.  So I have kinda been like a Festool Sales rep for festool working for free.    I have also let my mates use a OF2200  one of my mates desperately wants one another decided if the OF2200 is so good then the 1400 must be good and bought that.   Also let them use my Rotex 150 on has gone out and bought one! One used my Domino 500   was going to buy one but after asking for my advice I recommend that he went for the Domino 700 cus I know wa kinda work he does most off and thought the Domino 700 was more suited to him cus he cudnt afford both list goes on!

Equally I have told people I dont rate the carvex and surprise!!! non of my mates own a carvex
 
About the blade not stopping at the top..........

It does it if your battery runs flat

It does it when you hit something hard and you get bounced out of the work piece

It does it if you turn the jig saw of while still cutting

It does it when it feels like it.

JMB

I do remember reading your comment now you mention it JMB I just wasn't sure what you ment. I find when I am in Automatic that the light flashes which is annoying when trying to line up on a mark, when it then cuts the wood and gets up to speed then the strobe stays on. So I have been running it at speed 5 to try and get round this issue.

I laughed as well at you account of the blade not stopping at the top.

As to getting a new saw, one trusted method my mate used to use was lie down in front of the counter in the shop. Refuse to move till they do what you want. I've experienced it once in action and was very surprised how effective it is. Seems that people dont like dead bodies lying around or something.

I will try the 30 day money back or repair route just to give Festool the benifit of the dout.

Thanks guys for replying, sometimes one feels alone with a problem and thinks its just bad luck or have to make a work around. In this case i think its bad design. Which I would of hoped had been sorted in the upgrde, process from 400 to 420.

Will we have to wait till the 500 or 600 comes out.?

Pip
 
ART at WORK said:
About the blade not stopping at the top..........

It does it if your battery runs flat

It does it when you hit something hard and you get bounced out of the work piece

It does it if you turn the jig saw of while still cutting

It does it when it feels like it.

JMB

I do remember reading your comment now you mention it JMB I just wasn't sure what you ment. I find when I am in Automatic that the light flashes which is annoying when trying to line up on a mark, when it then cuts the wood and gets up to speed then the strobe stays on. So I have been running it at speed 5 to try and get round this issue.

I laughed as well at you account of the blade not stopping at the top.

As to getting a new saw, one trusted method my mate used to use was lie down in front of the counter in the shop. Refuse to move till they do what you want. I've experienced it once in action and was very surprised how effective it is. Seems that people dont like dead bodies lying around or something.

I will try the 30 day money back or repair route just to give Festool the benifit of the dout.

Thanks guys for replying, sometimes one feels alone with a problem and thinks its just bad luck or have to make a work around. In this case i think its bad design. Which I would of hoped had been sorted in the upgrde, process from 400 to 420.

Will we have to wait till the 500 or 600 comes out.?

Pip
Click to expand...

That made me chuckle lol!    My dealer is couple hours away so if it came to it I might try it haahaa be funny as!! They might roll me over to the door to be used as a door matt.

JMB
 
Dude, if you do go "planking" in his shop then be sure to get some pictures  [thumbs up]
 
Well after all the banter about the Dutch testing crew, I took myself off to the workshop with the camera and did some testing of my own.
My goal or agenda depending on how you look at it, was to decide whether to keep the new Festool 420 or send it back and continue with my old Metarbo and look for a better new jigsaw or wait till Festool sort out the bugs and bring out the carvex 500.

So here are the Jigsaws, My Metarbo is probable 20 years old, doesn't get used a lot.
Im not going in to Watt, speeds to power ratio etc. Not bothered.

[attachimg=#]

I had to remove the Pendulum nob some years ago to get in to a very tight cut.
Since then it is stuck in Pendulum 3.
So for the benefit of this unscientific test I set the Festool to 3 as well.
As the Metabo only has 6 speeds and no automatic I set both machines to 5 on the dials. To give a minimum of comparison.
So the Dutch video showing the 100 x 120 mm beam  being cut seemed to cause a  lot of complaints.
The best I could find was 120 x 60 mm. Pine, very dry.

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I don't have a stack of Festool blades specific for each job (yet),  I use what ever I have in my assortment that I have bought over the years. So I found a pair of long wood blade they look like they have been used before. Some people were asking for real life situation tests.

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I thought it would be interesting to time the cuts like the dutch were doing to race the blades. This turned out to be a PITA and not really of any use.
I set up a metal rail the foots width from the edge so it had complete support. Not skimming the edge.

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The winner was Festool by 7,5 second and the Metabo with 9,5 seconds. As I said not really important. I think it effected my concentration on the cut.
Is it Square though now that's important. So I started with my old Metabo. Cutting was ok, not easy but it flowed.
Then I photographed the start of the cut ,

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and at the end. As one sees there was a bit of wandering in the blade. Could be operators fault.

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New Festool cut through much more easily at the start then started to strugle a bit at the end to keep it straight.
At start of cut with Festool, sweet.

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At the end of cut slipped a bit off track. Could be an operator malfunction again.

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What other jobs are Jigsaws used for out in the field. Kitchen Worktops. So a piece of  28 mm Beech worktop was found. Cutting a nice curve on the corner. Used a tin of paint for the curve, it anyone wants to repeat the test.

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Festool first this time. Cut the curve as best I could with my finger on the foot to try and keep it a level as posible. The result was poor the blade had wandered off a lot. Again operator error, could be.

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For the Metabo test I turned the wood around so I was cutting the same way from left to right as with the Festool.

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Again it is not an easy cut and the Metabo base plate is about 1cm narrower than the Festool.

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I tried my best and the cut was terrible. Maybe this is not the right blade for the job?

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Well what about shortening a worktop with a straight 600mm cut along a metal rail.
First up the Metabo. It struggled in the hard wood and I would have liked to have increased the speed to 6 to help the saw along. But for testing purposes stayed on 5.
Cut was Ok

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The blades were sharp as you can see from the cut on my thumb where I brushed past one reaching for something.
At the end of the cut it wandered off a bit. Otherwise the cut was good.

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Festool to the plate. Well It struggled and started to go off the rail after about 100mm  I was working from left to right, I really couldn't keep it straight, so I stopped the cut, the blade had got a bit hot.

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So I tried it from the other direction. R 2 L. Same problem at about the 100mm mark and this time sparks. Not wanting a fire in my vac I stopped cutting and took it out. It was burn through and bent.

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Again operator misjudgment as to feed speed or holing it to tight, or the blade was stressed from the curve cut? Well the blade on the Metabo did the job ok so lets swap the blade in to the Festool and try again.

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I checked that in the “up position” the blade was sticking out under the wood. This time I tried to go slow and make a good cut, the saw was pulling away from the rail so I tried backing up and cutting again. It was hard work, the blade burnt the wood and the cut was terrible.

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Start of cut square

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End of cut totally crap

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So Its not me or the blade. The Festool machine with this blade is not possible to cut this thickness of hard wood. Its not even 3cm of hard wood.

To give Festool the benefit if the doubt I decided to use their super new extra thick Golden Carvex blade which came with the saw. (see first post) Weighing in at 1,68 mm as apposed to the Metabo 1,24 mm thickness.

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It struggled and it was a bugger to keep on the straight and narrow. The square doesn't really show the line I cut. So I held the wood at the end where the cut started out straight and held it down to show the dark shadow of how much the cut was off.
Not the most elegant scientific method of showing the results. But quick and dirty.

First the Metabo cut not a beauty.

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Next the Festool with the blade out of the Metabo, you can see the previous cuts as well.

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Then the Festool with the golden thick Carvex blade. Did a better job, but not so good that I would jump up and down with joy. It didn't burn or make sparks.

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I did all the cuts now with out the dust collection. Safety first!
I would have tested the Metabo with the Carvex blade but it was to big for the guide roller. So no comparison possible.

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Next the super dupper angle foot. This was another strong selling point on this saw for me, when I tested it in the shop I was amazed how easy it was to use.
Well a 45 degree cut in the Beech, this time with the other blade supplied with the saw - the black one. No I cant be bothered to look its number up. Its enough for me to know which one. Please feel free to look it up.

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Shot from underneath to show the blade depth in the up position.

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The angle foot is a lovely bit of design, the shape keeps the saw in place for the length of the wood. The cut went easily with a clear view of the edge. No loss in the length of material as the blade cuts directly on the edge. The open part at the front allows the chips to drop through as its not possible to connect the vac hose.

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I wasn't expecting miracles at this point in the test but was happy with the result.

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The set up on the Metabo for angles is primitive to say the least and very little possibility of an exact angle. Well Im not going to make any boxes with this method.
From underneath the blade sticks through a lot and to rest the saw securely on both feet you lose about 20mm of wood.

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As I was cutting the blade area was getting filled up with chips, another nice feature of the Festool with the blower around the blade. I also had to set up a steel rail to cut along, all taking more set up time.

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The cut started off ok but then started to wander. I was using exactly the same blade from Festool as I only have the one. Not such a great job.

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Not a great cut.

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Change of material to a standard 40mm chipboard covered kitchen worktop and

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Yellow Protool blades. Which as far as I could tell from their coding seemed to be good for plastic and particle board.

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Next test was making a cut out for a cable track or a sink in the worktop. For the ease of photographing and not wasting to much material I drew 2 lines about 30mm apart and drilled four 10mm holes in the corners.

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The first cut was with the Festool and then the Metabo. I tried to keep track by labeling everything. The cuts down the lines were fairly straight for a hand job.

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The Metarbo cut didn't started off so good and straight,

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then finished way off square.

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The Festool started off moderately better,

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Finished way off square as well, there were also a lot of curves between these two points.

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I noticed the side of the wood where the Festool had cut was slightly yellow. I checked the saws and as you can see the Festool blade lost a lot more paint through sideways friction then the Metabo did.

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The cut on the top surface was very good with almost no tear out, to show how much the blade had wandered, I measured from the front edge to the bottom edge of the cut and then transferred this to the steel rail on the top edge. You can see there is quite a lot of wandering going on along the length.

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I tried the same method with the Festool cut on the other side but the steel rail blocked the cut so I moved the rail back 5mm just to give a straight edge reference

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I could have gone on testing but I had a feeling I would then never get the observations written up.

If you need a Jig Saw for cutting thin soft wood ply or do a lot of cutting 45 degree angles then the Festool 420 is an excellent machine for this job. Quick, easy and accurate base changing and setting, quick blade change, lots of light, very good dust removal. Love watching the chips in slow motion in the light of the strobe.
When the strobe is working properly.

I was happy to see how good my 20 year old Metabo held up in the tests against the state of the art modern Jig Saw.

The Festool in my opinion is still having serious problems with the simple up and down movement of the blade.
It seems to be jumping to the side all the time. Remember the yellow paint. Many people complained that the 400 was having difficulty cutting straight. Well I think the 420 hasn't quite sorted that out just yet.
I would like a saw that cuts 30mm hard wood or 40mm chipboard when I need to put in a sink.
I am sure that with the “right blade” and a better operator the results could be different. But when your on the job you use whats at hand and do the best you can. This is what I have done here.

So my conclusion is the Festool is going back and I will wait a little longer to see how things develope and the Metabo is going to have a well deserved servicing at the Metabo factory.
I hope that people will do their own tests and decide for themselves what saw they need for their work.
 
Thank you for your review! 

Just the way I like them!  Honest! 

I would like the get my hands on the 420 soon as possible so I can test mine out with  my Bosch precision one and my Cordless Milwaukee and my mates Cordless Dewalt. 

JMB
 
Getting kind of Carvexed out. Anyone want to see my old Bosch jigsaw? Or my even older really old Makita sidewinder? Thats the one that I only run backwards blades on and cut metal roofing with. That one there has got to be at least 25 years old. Loud, is it loud. Especially when you bury it in a stack of metal roof.
 
Nice review... here's hoping all the kinks get worked out before it comes to NA.
-Jim
 
Just seems to me guiding the blade with metal to metal friction (which will always generate heat) may not be the best way to accomplish the task.  Any blade on any saw of any kind is prone to wander or wobble as the temperature of the metal rises.

I remember trying to use my ps300 on a guide rail and it worked fine for a few inches and then began to go off square in a shower of sparks. 

All my blades turn blue/black from the friction although I have never had one warp or bend like the photos show.

Thanks much for the information!
 
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