SHOWDOWN: Abranet VS Granat

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I have an upcoming project that involves refinishing nearly 1000sf of cedar siding. [eek] 
I'll be removing what's left of the Cabot finish with their stripper, and then sanding it all out with 100grit before finishing with Osmo.

I found the Granat to be more effective than Cristal in the sanding, of course, but it still goes through the paper very quickly.

For those of you experienced with both Abranet and Festool abrasives in this application, could you guess a comparison of their durability?
 
Abranet HD outlasts Granat by a wide margin but it is also much more expensive. Abranet's weakness is sanding uneven surfaces as it will tear if you hit the edge.  If you have set all the nails on your siding before sanding that shouldn't be a big problem.

Having sanded a bit of siding, I have come to the conclusion that a sander is not the best tool for the job.  I prefer an angle grinder with a stripping pad, then just a final pass with a sander to get rid of the marks.  If you are hoping to strip a solid stain back to wood and refinish with a semi solid you may want to tackle a small section and re-evaluate your plan. 
 
Joseph C,

OFF TOPIC but... holy jeebus is that a beautiful door in your profile pic! Did you make it? Can I see a higher-res pic?
 
Kevin Stricker said:
Abranet HD outlasts Granat by a wide margin but it is also much more expensive. Abranet's weakness is sanding uneven surfaces as it will tear if you hit the edge.  If you have set all the nails on your siding before sanding that shouldn't be a big problem.

Having sanded a bit of siding, I have come to the conclusion that a sander is not the best tool for the job.  I prefer an angle grinder with a stripping pad, then just a final pass with a sander to get rid of the marks.  If you are hoping to strip a solid stain back to wood and refinish with a semi solid you may want to tackle a small section and re-evaluate your plan. 
Click to expand...

The siding is relatively new; the initial coating of WB Cabots has nearly burned off.  We will be recoating with Osmo One Coat HS followed by their UV Oil topcoat.

It looks like I can get the Autonet line (I understand that it's non-stearated) in 50-packs for about the same price as Granat.
 
While I know my comments aren't going to be perceived as unbiased, I have actually tested Granat against Abranet just last year. Granat outperformed it in material removal rate, longevity and anti-clogging. The test was about a 1/4" thick by 6" diameter circle of auto body filler. The abrasives were both on identical ETS 150's with a weight attached so equal pressure was applied. Maybe one of the forum members can perform a similar test and report back.

Shane
 
I just finished stripping a heavy 2 coats of Sikkens Cetol DEK from over 100lf of cedar guardrail cap.  The finish was in good shape but hail damage had dented the wood causing discoloration.  With Cedar I do not like to drop below 80 grit as I find the time getting the deep scratch marks out outweighs the cost of more paper.  With Granat 80 on a RO150 in rotary mode I could strip about 10 feet per pad. I ran out of Granat about 20lf from the end, and switched to Abranet HD 80 grit.  Not only did it strip the final 20 feet with a single pad, I also started on the redwood decking and stripped about 50sqft of mostly burned off Cetol SRD.  Granat 80 would clog up after about 30sqft.

While I cannot compare Granat to standard Abranet as I haven't bought any in a while, in the past I found it lasted about twice as long as Brilliant 2 and three times as long as Rubin.  As it is twice as expensive I started using it only in hi clog uses like drywall.  The Abranet HD is pretty amazing stuff, as long as you don't tear up the pads it just keeps going like the Energizer Bunny. I will be using it on all of my future deck/ flooring projects.
 
As Shane said, I may not be perceived as unbiased but I use these and other tools for my own projects, plus for friends, customers (usually demo's), and sometimes, clients.

I haven't used Abranet though I know several people that like it. When the RO 90 first came out, we redid our countertops and I used the little Rotex with Granat P60 and posted the results. I was quite impressed with the utility and durability of cutting.

Since then, I have used Granat on several projects and I think the weakest point is the backing, not the cutting surface. I find they are still cutting fine when the backing wears out.

I demonstrated Brilliant 2 and Granat for a customer that was making outdoor kitchens using some really nice epoxy-coated/embedded plywood. He was having to sand it in places and BR 2 clogged really quickly. Granat clogged eventually but it took probably 4-5 times as long. When it clogged, this guy grabbed a rag and some denatured alcohol. He wiped the face of the Granat and put it right back to work. I'm guessing that technique would also work for Abranet but what I learned was that I don't give up on a sheet of Granat very easily.

Tom
 
Shane Holland said:
While I know my comments aren't going to be perceived as unbiased, I have actually tested Granat against Abranet just last year. Granat outperformed it in material removal rate, longevity and anti-clogging. The test was about a 1/4" thick by 6" diameter circle of auto body filler. The abrasives were both on identical ETS 150's with a weight attached so equal pressure was applied. Maybe one of the forum members can perform a similar test and report back.

Shane
Click to expand...

Shane was the pad of the sander damaged by the abranet as this is my experience of it I would not touch it with a barge pole..
 
Festoolfootstool said:
Shane was the pad of the sander damaged by the abranet as this is my experience of it I would not touch it with a barge pole..
Click to expand...

Well, I didn't use it for an extended period, maybe 20-30 minutes for the comparison to the purposes of being educated on other products. However, simply due to the way Abranet is made, I could see it being very hard on the StickFix (hook and loop) of the pad and causing premature wear.
 
Shane Holland said:
However, simply due to the way Abranet is made, I could see it being very hard on the StickFix (hook and loop) of the pad and causing premature wear.
Click to expand...

You really need to use the pad protector with Abranet to protect the hook and loop.  This has the unfortunate effect of making a hard pad behave more like a soft one.  This can be a real problem sanding soft woods where you are wanting a uniform surface.  

As for running into things, it is a real killer on the Abranet.  The HD is more durable but can gouge adjacent surfaces quickly.

Although it may sound like I am a Abranet convert, the truth is I use 10 times as much Festool paper.  This is mostly due to price and availability, but also because Granat is excellent paper.  It just cannot compare in certain applications.  For some reason you can only buy the HD in mixed packs (40,60,80) at $1.30/disk.  Regular Abranet is about $2.00/disk, and Granat is $0.80/disk.  So you need to average 2.5 sheets of Abranet per sheet of Granat to come out ahead(1.625 on the HD).  If cut and clog were the only factors then Abranet would be a winner, but when you factor in durability most often the Granat makes more sense.
 
rvieceli said:
Shane Holland said:
However, simply due to the way Abranet is made, I could see it being very hard on the StickFix (hook and loop) of the pad and causing premature wear.
Click to expand...

Which is probably why you're supposed to use it with the pad protector!!!

http://beavertools.com/mirka-1/mirka-tools-accessories-2/mirka-finishing-sanders-and-accessories-2/mirka-sander-accessories-1/mirka-interface-pads-2/9955-mirka-5-in-dia-abranet-pad-protector-qty-5.html
Click to expand...

I like to use the hard pad as I generally sand things flat so the interface pad is as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
 
Just a couple of small poinst and then I'm done, because this thread seems to be beginning to be getting out of control.

Price wise, you should be able to find a 50 Abranet disc box for about the same price as 50 Granat discs, maybe a buck or two more (around 80-85 cents per disc). Granat is going to be cheaper by about 20-25% if you by 100 disc boxes, since Mirka doesn't seem to offer the bigger packs.

Abranet HD is available in 25 disc packs of the lower grits for from $1.15 to $.90 per disc.

 
I realize there's an optional pad protector, but the conversation was more about performance and value. If you're going to use the pad protector, then the cost need to be factored in since it's a wearable item. My comment was really geared more to my comparison of material removal and abrasive life. Since everyone sands differently, two identical sanders with equal weight were used to take the user out of the equation.

Like most things, try it and chose which one works best for you. I'm sure there are people who will be in both camps.
 
I use the mirka ceros 150mm ROS and have used both abranet and festool papers. Granat does last marginally longer with using the lower grits but dust extraction is awful compared  to abranet and so I generally use the abranet abrasives. Not sure that I've ever had a problem sanding things flat with a pad saver on the ceros but then you hold the sander one handed over the centre of the sander and so have much better control.
 
rvieceli said:
Just a couple of small poinst and then I'm done, because this thread seems to be beginning to be getting out of control.

Price wise, you should be able to find a 50 Abranet disc box for about the same price as 50 Granat discs, maybe a buck or two more (around 80-85 cents per disc). Granat is going to be cheaper by about 20-25% if you by 100 disc boxes, since Mirka doesn't seem to offer the bigger packs.

Abranet HD is available in 25 disc packs of the lower grits for from $1.15 to $.90 per disc.
Click to expand...

Check out "buffdaddy. com" for  good pricing on the 6" abranet and autonet. Kevin Brown lets a customer mix and match different grits and when a person buys 100 or more discs the price on abranet drops to 72 cents a disc and autonet drops to 46 cents. I have been happy with the product, service, and quick shipping.
 
I would like to see a technical comparison between Granat, Abranet and Abranet HD. Most of the comments seem to be between Abranet and Granat and only a few comments talk about HD.

I have used HD on a 14x20 deck and used one sheet of each grit to take off 4 years of stain, grime, and mildew. I did not clock my time since it was a personal project.
 
Sorry off topic...................... but your web site is Legend. Am so impressed. Love the Log wall. [smile] (I would put my money on Abranet) [thumbs up]
)
 
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