Simple alignment technique for the Domino - from End User Group Training

[Tezzer]

If the mods are going to rearrange my posts please give  the courtesy of notifying me.
I didn?t start this thread,  I was merely replying to another thread that was stating the obvious and nothing ground breaking.

Is this a sign of things to come now this is a Festool controlled forum? 

 

[score0matic]

If the mods are going to rearrange my posts please give  the courtesy of notifying me.
I didnt start this thread,  I was merely replying to another thread that was stating the obvious and nothing ground breaking.

Is this a sign of things to come now this is a Festool controlled forum?  

I just now for the first time read this thread start to finish and found it very Choppy and hard to read.  someone pulled out Fourm mfg's posts that were salient to understanding the conversation..... we are all big kids here  let us play  read ;D

Craig

 

[ForumMFG]

I deleted my posts because It was also completely off topic so I know I don't like skimming threw off topic discussions when I'm trying to find something and it was a misunderstanding that turned into a argument. 

 

[Mike B]

... we are all big kids here  let us play  read ;D

Indeed,

This thread is now quite a mess. Better to at least leave the persons post and delete the content with an explanation...

 

[ForumMFG]

Mike, thanks for pointing that out.  I will have to remember that next time.  I wasn't thinking how deleting my posts would effect the rest of the thread.  I was hoping it would help the situation out.  Thanks.

 

[Rob Z]

Festool should realize that this issue of poor quality manuals is first and foremost a detractor from potential sales.  The only reason  I have bought as many Festool products as I have is because the dealer has been so forthcoming with info and Jerry Work and Brice Burrell have posted helpful information for all to read and use.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Festool should realize that this issue of poor quality manuals is first and foremost a detractor from potential sales.  

To be honest, I doubt it. If that were the case nobody could buy anything anymore, because lets face it, most stuff comes with crappy manuals. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

They have a limited budget to support their customers, maintain/expand the dealer network and grow their market share. So imagine there is a limited amount of money to spend on manuals.
   

Again, it is no excuse and second, you're actually wrong in your presumption that Festool America as to supply the manuals.

The manual of a tool is made during the development process of a tool and is done in Festool's case, in Germany. They first make one in German and then translate that in other languages. Now, the cost of a good translation isn't really worth mentioning. It's less then ONE single average Festool machine......

Yes the tool manuals are made in Germany, I was referring to FestoolUSA, at their own expense, putting out the supplemental manuals (Rick's and Jerry's manuals). Festool Germany seems to be happy with the quality of the current manuals and are unwilling to spend money to improve them.

I do agree with that it isn't Festool's responsibility to teach you how to use the tools in every conceivable manner in the manual. Like you, I'd like to know what all the knobs, buttons and levers do. If the engineers took the time to build in a feature I want to know about it. 

 

[Tezzer]

I'd like to know what all the knobs, buttons and levers do. If the engineers took the time to build in a feature I want to know about it. 

I`ll bet anything the Festool engineers are clueless and wouldnt know even half what the Domi can do.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I'd like to know what all the knobs, buttons and levers do. If the engineers took the time to build in a feature I want to know about it. 

I`ll bet anything the Festool engineers are clueless and wouldnt know even half what the Domi can do.

I'll take that bet! You don't get tools that work this well from mere engineers.

 

[Tezzer]

I'll take that bet! You don't get tools that work this well from mere engineers.

If that?s the case, why  havnt they  given us  a comprehensive  document on every possible combination of the usage of the Domino?

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

I think in many respects the poor manuals is a German thing to some extent.  Great engineering...not so good at manual writing. I have a $1,000 Weller Soldering and Rework station and the manuals are very poor for it.  Another German company/product that is very high quality but lacking in basic manual information even though they have translated the few pages they do provide into about 15 languages....

Leigh Industries probably has some of the most useful manuals and quick reference cards in the entire woodworking tools business, IMHO...

Best,
Todd

 

[tbellemare]

I don't know Festool's processes but I know the processes of a lot of companies on 3 continents. It is pretty common to have a distinction between the people that develop the products and those that document them. The documentation people don't generally get the products to document until they are ready or just about ready to be manufactured. They are usually technical writers and graphics types.

Documentation generally starts in the native language of the company. Often when getting it translated, the translator doesn't have sufficient background in the subject matter so the translations can be screwy to someone whose native tongue is the one translated to. It is always tempting to get translations from linguists when maybe the subject matter requires a rocket scientist (in the case of a NASA manual).

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'll take that bet! You don't get tools that work this well from mere engineers.

If that?s the case, why  havnt they  given us  a comprehensive  document on every possible combination of the usage of the Domino?

Well, there is what I've already posted about Festool Germany's seeming indifference to providing better documentation. It can cost a lot money to produce quality, detailed documentation. The fact that Festool is coming out with new uses for the Domino all the time is proof enough for me that Festool is committed extensive research and product development. I bet their doing things with the Domino not of us could imagine. I'm excited to see what the future brings for the Domino. Can the documentation be better, you bet it can. The question is who's going to do it?

I've got a lot of respect for what you've done with the Domino and teaming up with Ideal Tools teaching classes is a great concept. I wish we had your classes here. So, maybe you could write a Domino users guide, maybe Festool would be willing to commission the work, maybe not. I've done a tremendous amount of un-sponsored documentation for the Festool user community. At a certain point it's up to us to support the user community.    

 

[Jesse Cloud]

That's a great tip!  How about a contest for the most useful tip?
Lets stop whining and get to work!

 

[Rob Z]

Festool should realize that this issue of poor quality manuals is first and foremost a detractor from potential sales.  

To be honest, I doubt it. If that were the case nobody could buy anything anymore, because lets face it, most stuff comes with crappy manuals. 

Alex,  I disagree, because Festool tools are somewhat more complicated and packed with features than  some competitors' tools, and many of these features  aren't immediately obvious at first glance.  That is where my dealer has been so helpful, and has made the difference in many cases where I might not have decided to buy something in the first place. Secondly I buy a lot of materials, products, fixtures and tools for work, and there are a lot of lousy instructions out there that I have to deal with, but there are also quite a few that I see that are done pretty well.  It is something that Festool can do if they decide to do it, and I think for a premium tool is it something that should be done.If it  adds 3-5% to the cost of the tool to support the preparation of Festool-quality documentation with each tool, then I am ready to pay for that.

 

[Neill]

Rob,

I won't say your dealer is the exception, but they are certainly few and far between.  Most times when I go to my local retailer, I seem to know more about Festool than they do just from being on this Forum and reading Sysnotes every month.

For example, I called my local Rockler dealer today and spoke to the manager of the store.  He has even been on Cool Tools (DIY) with a number of tools including Festool's 700 mini router.  You may know him as the one who advised to throw a little sawdust on your new purchases so the spouse won't realize that they are new.

I asked if he had the new transparent splinter guard for the guide rails.  He acknowledged that it seemed like a good idea but had never heard of them even though he using the guide rails personally..  He was going to check the catalog and order some in soon.  He also asked how I knew about the product and I told him.

While I like dealing with my local guys, I am starting to question this.  There are some great online dealers that I have had great success with and who seem to know the product and are more than happy to discuss them with you at great lengths..  I think we all know who they are, Tom Bellemare, Timmy C., and of course Bob Marino.

Neill

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex,  I disagree, because Festool tools are somewhat more complicated and packed with features than  some competitors' tools, and many of these features  aren't immediately obvious at first glance. 

Oh. Well, I'm not under that impression. Comparable machines by competitors can do the same stuff Festools can. Now there are a couple of machines from Festool that are somewhat unique and a step up from the competition, like the Domino and the plunge saws, but that's it.

And about actually buying a tool, and making the decision about it before you buy it, well I think that most people don't even get to see the manual but just look at brochures, ads, sales stories by the folks at the store, and perhaps some read reviews online. I think actually very few people weigh in the manual at forehand.

However, if you find a nice manual in the box after the sale, a manual that will explain all the tool's features in a nice and clear fashion, then that will make you appreciate your tool and the company that made it only more.

 

[peter halle]

Perhaps this will give you some insight.

At the training class the topic of the owners manuals came up several times.  They (Festool USA) has heard this all before.

The tools are manufactured in Germany, by a German company, which has spent decades supplying tools to Germany & Europe.  Then they decided to expand beyond Europe.

A comment made by Christian in an unrelated conversation might allow some insight for why the manuals are not what we here expect.  I believe we were going over the class at the end of the day and a comment was made about spending too much time on the sanders.  Basically that sanders didn't need that much time because it was just sanding after all.  Christian, who spent  considerable time watching and listening during the sessions, then told us that in Germany finishers spent three years learning sanding.  Might that be why they don't make the manuals the way we want?  They don't need to because the users are expected to know how to use the tools.

I would love to know if any other Festool division in the world has spent the resources to produce / have produced a supplemental owners manual.  My guess is no.

Christian did also say (I don't remember if it was to me, a small group, or the entire group) that in Germany there is a separate company under the holding company that provides training for users of Festool and if I remember correctly, some other manufacturers' tools.

Hmmmm.....

Peter

 

[Les]

Beating a dead horse. Festool is well aware of the manual problem.

Thanks for the great tip brought back from the training class.

Don't forget that training is a very big revenue generator for some companies.