Simple Fence for ripping small strips

[Dave Ronyak]

If I understand correctly, Tinker's suggested technique is the same as was demonstrated to me last year by a Festool factory rep. at a tool show, except that he did not use an MFS.  He simply used a piece of MDF that was the same thickness as his stock to be ripped into narrow strips.  The key to safety of this technique is that the cutoff is trapped under the guide rail with its front end stopped by the MFT fence.  The rep. also demonstrated that it is easy to make a bunch of identical wedges using a scrap of MDF in which the side under the guide rail defines the wedge angle.  All you have to do is cut an acute angle from a scrap of MDF, then position the apex against the fence at the far end of the guide rail.  The wedge to by cut from wider stock will fill that space under the guide rail.

Dave R.

 

[gkeas]

Forgive my ignorance,  but could the parallel guide (edge guide) be uses in conjunction with the guide rail?  Seems like this would be another viable alternative, if it can.  (a stop placed at the end of the cut could prevent the kickout?)

Yes? Not sure exactly which pieces parts you're talking about. Try it out, post a pic.

I don't have the Parallel guide for my TS55 (Festool part # 491469), so I cant post pics. 

(you cant post pics without a parallel guide, maybe that's what Dave is doing wrong ;D)

 

[Tinker]

If I understand correctly, Tinker's suggested technique is the same as was demonstrated to me last year by a Festool factory rep. at a tool show, except that he did not use an MFS.  He simply used a piece of MDF that was the same thickness as his stock to be ripped into narrow strips.  The key to safety of this technique is that the cutoff is trapped under the guide rail with its front end stopped by the MFT fence.  The rep. also demonstrated that it is easy to make a bunch of identical wedges using a scrap of MDF in which the side under the guide rail defines the wedge angle.  All you have to do is cut an acute angle from a scrap of MDF, then position the apex against the fence at the far end of the guide rail.  The wedge to by cut from wider stock will fill that space under the guide rail.

Dave R.

Dave, that's basically what I am doing.  I had been using the angle guide bar as a stop for the most part, but would have to remember to back it off from the edge of the guide rail if i wanted to make a bevel cut.  I can usually find a scrap to use, so i just keep the guide bar back far enough from edge of guide rail that I don't have to worry. 

For cutting rails and styles and other narrow pieces, for the most part, even with bar set back, it is enough to capture the cut off piece and there is no worry.  I have made a few toys for my GS and sometimes parts get ripped pretty small.  that is when I need to use an extra piece of wood to trap the cutoff (actually the piece i want to save) piece.  The weight and non skid feature of the guide plate along with the short wood extension to the under side edge of guide bar all work together hold that saved piece.

I have not done a project where i had to cut a repeatable taper, or make repeatable bevel cuts in this way, but have played around with scraps.  the system works.  What is most important to me is that, even tho it maybe is not as quick as i can do with table saw, I think it is safer.  I do not even try to do such thin pieces on the TS as I find I can do with my ATF 55 on the MFT using the described method.  (I got the basic method from John Lucas's woodshop demos)  In the past, I usually did those tiny pieces on the Band  Saw, but then i had the problem of sanding and had to make jigs to hold the pieces.  With the ATF, I do not need to sand before gluing.

Tinker

 

[Eli]

........go to sleep under a tree and wait for the leaves to come to me  8)
Tinker

I find a hammock greatly accelerates this natural process.

 

[John Stevens]

He simply used a piece of MDF that was the same thickness as his stock to be ripped

Yeah, when it comes to repeat rips with the Festool saws, it really pays to stick with several standard thicknesses for all projects.  When working with sheet goods, this is easy to do.  When working with "solid" wood, if you always plane to thicknesses that correspond to common sheet thicknesses and keep some sheet scraps handy, it really simplifies the "rigging and jigging" involved in many operations that use the guide rails, whether sawing or routing.  Sheets can also be laminated together to make other thicknesses.

Regards,

John

 

[Dave Rudy]

Forgive my ignorance,  but could the parallel guide (edge guide) be uses in conjunction with the guide rail?  Seems like this would be another viable alternative, if it can.  (a stop placed at the end of the cut could prevent the kickout?)

John Lucas has a demonstration IIRC of the parallel guide used to cut thin strips.  I think it is used without the MFT guide rail system.  In effect, as I understand it it just guides the blade at a specified distance from the edge of the workpiece.  Check woodshopdemos.com.

 

[Dave Rudy]

If I understand correctly, Tinker's suggested technique is the same as was demonstrated to me last year by a Festool factory rep. at a tool show, except that he did not use an MFS.  He simply used a piece of MDF that was the same thickness as his stock to be ripped into narrow strips.  The key to safety of this technique is that the cutoff is trapped under the guide rail with its front end stopped by the MFT fence.  The rep. also demonstrated that it is easy to make a bunch of identical wedges using a scrap of MDF in which the side under the guide rail defines the wedge angle.  All you have to do is cut an acute angle from a scrap of MDF, then position the apex against the fence at the far end of the guide rail.  The wedge to by cut from wider stock will fill that space under the guide rail.

Dave R.

Basically, the reason for using the MFS as I understand it is that it is a perfectly straight edge, and is exactly perpendicular to its adjacent edge.  Therefore, it serves as a square and guide both at the same time.

BTW, there is a reason for doing it this way (with the guide under the guide rail rather than outboard).  The smoothest cut is to the side under the guide rail.  Putting the guide outboard, as Jesse suggested, has the disadvantage of placing the more splintered cut on the keeper side of the workpiece.  Tinker's original way presents the finished piece with two finished edges.

How significant do you think that is?

 

[Steveo48]

What is most important to me is that, even tho it maybe is not as quick as i can do with table saw, I think it is safer.  I do not even try to do such thin pieces on the TS as I find I can do with my ATF 55 on the MFT using the described method.  (I got the basic method from John Lucas's woodshop demos)  In the past, I usually did those tiny pieces on the Band  Saw, but then i had the problem of sanding and had to make jigs to hold the pieces.
Tinker

Wow, arn't we making a big deal out of a really simple process? (I'm not trying to start a war here).  ;D

The TS is so much faster for this kind or work.  I teach teenagers to do this every year and we cut thousands of strips 1/8" to 1 1/8" wide and I've never had an accident, incident or near-miss.  I also cut the materials for our construction classes and probably cut over 50K 3/16 wide pieces each year with no problems.  Make a good push stick out of soft pine, and you can run it right over the blade as long as your hand is steady.

OK, where's my helmet? 

Steve

 

[Dan Clark]

Wow, arn't we making a big deal out of a really simple process? (I'm not trying to start a war here).  ;D

The TS is so much faster for this kind or work.  I teach teenagers to do this every year and we cut thousands of strips 1/8" to 1 1/8" wide and I've never had an accident, incident or near-miss.  I also cut the materials for our construction classes and probably cut over 50K 3/16 wide pieces each year with no problems.  Make a good push stick out of soft pine, and you can run it right over the blade as long as your hand is steady.

OK, where's my helmet? 

Steve

Steve,

It's a big deal for those of us (like me) who do NOT have a table saw.  Worksite saws like the Bosch, Makita, and Dewalt might work fine, but I don't have one of those either.  Also, some are pretty heavy when set up with a nice stand like the Bosch or Rousseau stands.  That's not a good thing for guys with bad backs.

The "big deal" is that we're trying to leverage our Festool tools as much as possible.  The "outer limits" of Festool tools is still unknown in most cases.  Jesse's simple, elegant solution is a great example of testing those limits.  It combines quick setup, dirt cheap cost, usable accuracy, and max portability into one simple solution.  To me, that's a VERY big deal.

Five years ago (even two years ago), it was common wisdom that everyone MUST have a tablesaw to work with wood.  Now (in 2007), a tablesaw might be the best option for some people in some situations, but it is NOT mandatory for everyone in every situation.  For example, I still read questions on other forums like, "What's the best way of hoisting a full sheet of 3/4" ply on to my tablesaw to cut it down?"  (Talk about being in a rut!)  My response is typically, "You're asking the wrong question!"  The better question is, "What's the best way to break down my sheet goods?"  (A couple sheets of pink foam insulation on the floor or on a low, cheap cutting table can work wonders!)

If you're cutting 50,000 strips of wood per year at a single site, then a tablesaw is probably the best option.  If you're cutting 50 strips of wood at a worksite 3 times a year, then lugging a tablesaw around (even a portable tablesaw) may not be worth it.  Maybe an MFT plus TS55 is a better option.  Frankly, using a $3 piece of aluminum angle for the few times I need to make repeated wood strips seems like a MUCH superior option to me.

Bottom line - If we don't test the limits, we'll never improve our skills and use these tools to their limits.  There is a lot of merit in sticking with the old way of doing something.  However, we don't know whether the old ways are better than the new ways unless we explore the new ways!  THEN, we decide which is best for a given situation.  ;D

Regards,

Dan.

 

[iggy07]

This has been a very informative thread! I particularly liked the last messages from Steve and Dan. And, of course, both are right!

With the proper equipment, a high-throughput requirement, and a lot of experience, certainly Steve can accomplish his goal quickly, easily, and safely as he describes. OTOH, I don't have a table saw either, and I'll NEVER need to turn out that many pieces of anything in my lifetime. It is fascinating to learn how the 'ideal' equipment, and method, changes with the knowledge, skills, and economies of scale from one situation to the next.

ejg

 

[mntbighker]

I personally have found the whole discussion very confusing but I get the sense that if I could decode it I would find it very useful  ???  I don't have a table saw either. I have puzzled this very topic. I think it confuses me because I have only recently acquired my MFT and TS-55.

--Mark

 

[woodshopdemos]

Forgive my ignorance,  but could the parallel guide (edge guide) be uses in conjunction with the guide rail?  Seems like this would be another viable alternative, if it can.  (a stop placed at the end of the cut could prevent the kickout?)

John Lucas has a demonstration IIRC of the parallel guide used to cut thin strips.  I think it is used without the MFT guide rail system.  In effect, as I understand it it just guides the blade at a specified distance from the edge of the workpiece.  Check woodshopdemos.com.

Dave R,
  Thanks for the mention. I have been reading these ideas with interest. A lot of good energies put into this problem/solution. But, I think that the Festool Parallel Guide remains my favorite "rip" accessory. I used it yesterday to rip some stock for a demo of a new (Rockler) product. Not having a table saw means that occasionally I have to make like a TS...the parallel guide with the TS55 and the worktable took care of this quicker that I would have been able to find the TS.

Here is the story:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-par-1.htm

 

[Steveo48]

Wow, arn't we making a big deal out of a really simple process? (I'm not trying to start a war here).   ;D

The TS is so much faster for this kind or work.  I teach teenagers to do this every year and we cut thousands of strips 1/8" to 1 1/8" wide and I've never had an accident, incident or near-miss.  I also cut the materials for our construction classes and probably cut over 50K 3/16 wide pieces each year with no problems.   Make a good push stick out of soft pine, and you can run it right over the blade as long as your hand is steady.

OK, where's my helmet? 

Steve

Steve,

It's a big deal for those of us (like me) who do NOT have a table saw.   Worksite saws like the Bosch, Makita, and Dewalt might work fine, but I don't have one of those either.  Also, some are pretty heavy when set up with a nice stand like the Bosch or Rousseau stands.  That's not a good thing for guys with bad backs.

The "big deal" is that we're trying to leverage our Festool tools as much as possible.  The "outer limits" of Festool tools is still unknown in most cases.   Jesse's simple, elegant solution is a great example of testing those limits.  It combines quick setup, dirt cheap cost, usable accuracy, and max portability into one simple solution.  To me, that's a VERY big deal.

Five years ago (even two years ago), it was common wisdom that everyone MUST have a tablesaw to work with wood.   Now (in 2007), a tablesaw might be the best option for some people in some situations, but it is NOT mandatory for everyone in every situation.   For example, I still read questions on other forums like, "What's the best way of hoisting a full sheet of 3/4" ply on to my tablesaw to cut it down?"  (Talk about being in a rut!)  My response is typically, "You're asking the wrong question!"  The better question is, "What's the best way to break down my sheet goods?"   (A couple sheets of pink foam insulation on the floor on a low, cheap cutting table can work wonders!)

If you're cutting 50,000 strips of wood per year at a single site, then a tablesaw is probably the best option.   If you're cutting 50 strips of wood at a worksite 3 times a year, then lugging a tablesaw around (even a portable tablesaw) may not be worth it.  Maybe an MFT plus TS55 is a better option.   Frankly, using a $3 piece of aluminum angle for the few times I need to make repeated wood strips seems like a MUCH superior option to me.

Bottom line - If we don't test the limits, we'll never improve our skills and use these tools to their limits.   There is a lot of merit in sticking with the old way of doing something.  However, we don't know whether the old ways are better than the new ways unless we explore the new ways!  THEN, we decide which is best for a given situation.   ;D

Regards,

Dan.

I wasn't trying to argue that the MFT table isn't more portable or can't do a fine job, nore was this a nice suggestion.  I was commenting to someones response that cutting small strips on the TS might be dangerous (it is as much as you want to make it so), and the going on and on about a simple solution to an equally simple task.  

These responses remind me of people standing in a parking lot admiring hub caps on a new PU, much ado about nothing. Some of the other suggestions remind me of Rube Goldberg designs, I guess I expect a little more creativity and less gee whiz from people spending $400.00+ on power tools.  If you want to see something to get excited about, look at the MFT's being built by other FOG's.    

Now where is my asbestos suit?

 

[JJ Wavra]

A little late to the topic but here goes;

I actually made a rip fence for my mft.  Kreg makes track that is 3/8" thick I took this and cut three 5" pieces.  I then installed them in the mft to the right of guide rail recessed so that the top of the track and the top of the mft were about even.  It still leaves 3/8" of mdf under the track and there is some supplied screws that worked perfectly for installation. Oh yeah the tracks are perpendicular to the guide rail.  Those thin tracks take 1/4 20 hex bolts.  So, I took some of that 3/4" thick by 4"wide by 22"long plastic scrap ( that is just the size that came in the bag of scrap that i baught) they sell at woodcraft and drilled holes in it to accept the bolts. I then use these cam clamps to tighten the fence.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10602

I added fender washers between the plastic fence and the cams and also rubber washers under the fender washers. (this just seems to make the cams work better. I did not make the fence the entire width of, or depth depending on how you look at it, the mft so that i can install a stop block at the top of the mft.  I simply cut a small 1 1/2" wide piece of wood and cut a 45 degree on it and clamp that to the top so the piece being ripped will not move up on the table.  the piece that is clamped really only has to be to left of the fence a little bit.  Also, I have found that the festool srew clamps work better than the quick clamps because they are smaller.

I have been using this for a year or so and it seems to work well.

This board is great I found it about a month ago and have been trying to read everything here.  This board is going to cost me some money!

best
jj

 

[Scott W.]

jj,

Got photos???

Scott W.

 

[Dan Clark]

jj,

As the resident FOG photo cop, it's my duty to offer a socially acceptable, very subtle hint:

/subtlety = OFF.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I think some of you guys don't give Dan C. AKA: "Picture Cop", the proper respect his job deserves. Perhaps seeing him in uniform will straighten you guys out.  ;D

Now remember all good ideas must be documented with photos!

 

[Dan Clark]

Hey!  You ain't got no right to post pics of me!  Especially in uniform!  (Hmmm...  That pic does capture my good side, doesn't it?)  8)

Dan.

 

[JJ Wavra]

Sorry for the lack of pictures I don't own a camera!  I was going to buy one and all of a sudden I baught a 1010.  My dad has one so next time he is here i will ask him to bring it by and I will definately post pictures, that is of course if I can figure out how.

Hopefully pictures coming soon,

JJ

Edit: my phone has a camera and I took pictures.  However, for whatever reason that may be , I can not figure out how to resize them.  would someone be willing to do that for me.  I am so un-tech savey that I am truely a disgrace to my generation.  I read the tutorials but simply don't know how to do it .  thanks. jj

 

[Dan Clark]

JJ,

Pick a couple and send them to me.  I'll take a look.  My e-mail address in my profile.

Regards,

Dan.