six-point socket's tidbits of Home Improvement, small projects and other stuff.

[Bob D.]

If I ever have to repipe my house I would use PEX and install the manifolds as shown above. It is nice to have individual control over each fixture. And the single fixture runs can be smaller diameter so less volume and less time to get hot water to the fixtures furthest away from the water heater. PEX has been around over 20 years, and has a good track record.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viega

 

[six-point socket II]

Viega is well known around here, I buy all my red brass/red bronze screw connectors/fitting from them. I had no idea they made these manifolds, nor have I ever seen them being used/installed here in residential installations. Thanks Bob, very interesting!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Vtshopdog]

https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/def...---manifolds---brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=15a93637_6

Sioux Chief brand manifolds 
I went all brass and copper for fittings in my system.  The little plastic mounting brackets were kinda spendy for what they are (maybe $25 each? I can’t remember) but well worth cost for clean mount.

 

[six-point socket II]

Thank you very much [member=68668]Vtshopdog[/member] ! Very, very interesting & saved for future reference!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

Progress. Even though, not through DIY. My plumber sent his journeyman, a near journeyman/apprentice and an intern today - to tackle the piping.

Every time I have shown people a picture of this, I get the same question: why did someone mix galvanized (zinc) steel pipe/fittings and copper/red brass. The answer has always been that a small part of the whole installation still utilizes galvanized (zinc) steel pipe - and my last plumber always assured me this was the right way to do it.

Red arrows point towards the parts in question/ questionable parts.

Today was the day, the first part, of the last bit of galvanized (zinc) steel pipe was exchanged for Fraenkische Alpex F50 Profi composite pipes. And a new "Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter" (Cillit Galileo 100mm) was installed. Perfect time to change the couple of galvanized (zinc) fittings in this part of the installation as well, for red brass/copper.

What I had to expect from the old galvanized (zinc) steel pipes that are original to this house from the 60ties was pretty much clear. But what I had to see and find in the much, much younger part of the installation behind the water meter, was unbelievable.

I will not embed this pictures, I leave them as links to click. Who clicks, clicks. ... And remember, what has been seen, can't be unseen.  [eek] [scared] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Look inside the part where the first red arrow points.

Using my inspection camera to look into the rest of this piping, after it was taken out:

I have no words to describe how I feel about this, and I'd like to use words like "Mickey Mouse job"; botched job; shoddy work. And to be very clear, this was not a DIY attempt. This work was done by a German master-plumber, personally. Not a journeyman, not an apprentice, not an intern. It was a one guy company, the master, personally. And the worst part, I expressly asked him about what to expect from mixing lower grade materials with higher grade materials, as I knew that was not the best solution/idea. He insisted, that was the right way to do it. (Maybe this also helps understand why I DIY so much these days - although not in this case ...)

The new connection from water meter to the piping was quickly installed.

Tool:

Die/crimp insert:

The composite pipe in a suitable diameter.:

Comparison: New diameter (large) vs. old diameter (small). Another dire mistake the first plumber made. Chose a way to small diameter. It's partly corrected now, and will be fully corrected once I start in the other basement room, so we can access the last bit of the old & very old (galvanized (zinc) steel pipe) installation. You can also see that the diameter is reduced even more inside those crimp fittings. And I'm not even talking about the connector from large to small. ...

And for good measure, some more links. View inside that last bit of galvanized (zinc) steel pipe - that will be removed/replaced in future. A real limestone cave formed by massive amounts of chalk residue & rust.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[hdv]

I hope that previous plumber won't get near you or your car in the coming days.  [scared] And if he does, I hope you have some good sturdy bull bars on your car.  [cool]  You surely don't strike me as an aggressive man, but boy, if I were in your shoes, I surely would be tempted...  [wink] Well, you could try to look at it this way: at least the feeling of getting new pipes in is extra rewarding now.  [huh]

 

[Vtshopdog]

There is a red wire in first photo - is that some sort of electrical ground attached to the piping?  That area appears to have much more corrosion.

All things equal, a small grounding current into the galvanized piping would tend to increase rate of corrosion.  That combined with the dissimilar metals would create the local issue visible in photo.

In defense of your plumber, the galvanized pipes likely have used up all their zinc leading to the rust deposits in the rest of system. The brass fittings might have accelerated this a very small amount, but likely local water chemistry and time are primary culprits.

 

[six-point socket II]

I hope that previous plumber won't get near you or your car in the coming days.  [scared] And if he does, I hope you have some good sturdy bull bars on your car.  [cool]  You surely don't strike me as an aggressive man, but boy, if I were in your shoes, I surely would be tempted...  [wink] Well, you could try to look at it this way: at least the feeling of getting new pipes in is extra rewarding now.  [huh]

Some years ago I would have confronted him about it, and it would have ended in some type of gentleman agreement. But having seen him loosing his temper over much more trivial stuff in more recent times - I'll take a pass on that. Just not worth it. So yeah, the latter it is. Seeing that stuff made having the new pipes installed extra rewarding! Great way to put it!  [big grin]

There is a red wire in first photo - is that some sort of electrical ground attached to the piping?  That area appears to have much more corrosion.

All things equal, a small grounding current into the galvanized piping would tend to increase rate of corrosion.  That combined with the dissimilar metals would create the local issue visible in photo.

In defense of your plumber, the galvanized pipes likely have used up all their zinc leading to the rust deposits in the rest of system. The brass fittings might have accelerated this a very small amount, but likely local water chemistry and time are primary culprits.

You caught that correctly. The red wire is a connection from actual grounding (the black, stranded wire running next to that larger diameter black, insulated, cable. It has always been there. Never thought about it. But now that you say it. Sure, if it did induce current, that would explain part of the damage. But I'm still flabbergasted that it happened over such a short period. While the other pipes are +60 years old ...

But it's definitely a great explanation. Never questioned it. I just cleaned it now, before it was painted white, that's probably why it caught your attention, the red really sticks out now.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[FestitaMakool]

[member=68668]Vtshopdog[/member] is most likely right in you having current through the grounding wire.
The corrosion will accelerate close to higher grade material.
I would have an electrician check. But, it could also come through the piping (Now, we cannot see your whole system, but low current can travel through whatever conductive material)

It could also be one of your neighbours who has a ground fault:
A few years ago I was on my aluminium ladder mounting an antenna splitter for my TV and radio aerials when I felt tickling handling the coax wires, and the splitter box which also was in metal. This also happened, and even stronger the tickling was when holding one hand on the ladder and the other on the splitter. Reassuring again that my cabling and antennas where a closed circuit I called the local power company after advise from my cousin’s who’s an electrician.
And he was right, some houses apart there was one who had a major ground fault. Leading current through the soil and to the feet of my ladder, then through me and finally my antenna.

 

[six-point socket II]

I will do some testing/ take some measurements.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[grobkuschelig]

Hi Oliver,

What a relief to see these pipes go!
I hope you are able to eliminate all of the faults. What a nasty look into the abyss...

Sometimes I can‘t shake the feeling that you just have these things installed, to keep us entertained like you do. [emoji12]
As you pointed out, it is not worth it to grieve yourself over this. Seeing the change as the positive it brings is the way to go.

Keep at keeping us entertained.

 

[Cheese]

That's unfortunate Oliver... [sad] [sad]...it's so basic that any apprentice would know better. Each of the fittings, an adapter, a nipple & a coupling are all standard items, nothing special about any of those fittings.  I'd chalk it up to laziness on his part.

I've needed to accommodate galvanized and copper in the same run, for a short period of time, and I had to install pvc fittings between the items which eliminated the issues you've highlighted.

That's another reason I tend to do everything myself...if something gets screwed up I only have myself to blame.  [big grin]

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi Oliver,

What a relief to see these pipes go!
I hope you are able to eliminate all of the faults. What a nasty look into the abyss...

Sometimes I can‘t shake the feeling that you just have these things installed, to keep us entertained like you do. [emoji12]
As you pointed out, it is not worth it to grieve yourself over this. Seeing the change as the positive it brings is the way to go.

Keep at keeping us entertained.

Hi!

Thanks! Yes, absolutely. I wish it was all done just for the purpose of show & tell. But unfortunately the trouble is real.

I'll do my best!

That's unfortunate Oliver... [sad] [sad]...it's so basic that any apprentice would know better. Each of the fittings, an adapter, a nipple & a coupling are all standard items, nothing special about any of those fittings.  I'd chalk it up to laziness on his part.

I've needed to accommodate galvanized and copper in the same run, for a short period of time, and I had to install pvc fittings between the items which eliminated the issues you've highlighted.

That's another reason I tend to do everything myself...if something gets screwed up I only have myself to blame.  [big grin]

So true. Thanks Cheese!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

Todays work. Sorting the cable run.

Then I painted the rest of the visible wall.

As you can see, to install the Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter we had to make a cut out in the former substructure. I fixed that.

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but due to the install of that Domestic Water Station with backwashing filter, which protrudes the old substructure, I had to fix that too, you will see it in the last pictures.

After that I wanted to install the radiator, for that I had to install two parts of the new covers first.

This is where the GRK FIN/TRIM (Pheinox, #8 1 1/2") truly excel. Pre drill and really slightly countersunk, which is were Festool Accessories excel .

Then it was about coffee time and I got surprised with some freshly and home baked Pasteis de Nata. That's a traditional Portuguese dessert.

Then I installed the radiator. This it what it looked like when I called it a day.

One minor faux pas comes to light. One of the grouts doesn't line up properly. That is because that entire wall is not square, I had to cut every single tile, and that's what I finally ended up with. It is like it is.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[grobkuschelig]

Oliver, it is really coming along nicely!
Can’t wait to see the covers coming on.

 

[six-point socket II]

The Day of the Jackal? (The 1973 original, based on Forsyth's book, not the later Willis remake, please. ) - But no, the day of the CXS!

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

So yesterday evening I was pretty tired, that's why I only uploaded the few CXS pictures.

I needed to make a slight modification to the plumbers work, one of the pipe clamps protruded too far into the future compartment.

So I cut it out and though about how to install it another way. I honestly don't even know if it's actually really needed for such a sturdy and rather short piece of pipe, but what gives. A piece of wood was easily found to serve as end support/ counter bearing, and the rest was easily done.

The CXS pictures where the result of needing another scrap piece of plywood to fix the compartments inner cover to.

At the end of the day, this is what it looked like.

Today was pretty much the same as yesterday. Cutting sheets to boards, mark necessary modifications/alignments , more cutting with the TSC - or on the fly with the Carvex - try again ... and screw it down.

Some modification/alignment to the substructure by using a bevel edged chisel.

And after a tiny bit of electrical work, this is what it looked like tonight.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

Today it was time to put edge banding on the doors - prior to applying a coat of Osmo hardwax-oil. The edge banding is real wood/timber (birch) with a melting adhesive on the back. Ironing it to the edges is no problem obviously.

I took of the majority of the excess edge banding with the Tajima Razar blades. And then used my LN #102 plane to bring it down right to the edge.

First very carefully and hesistant.

Then a little more bold.

That works great, even though the real wood/timber edge banding behaves entirely different than ABS/Melamine edge banding.

In the end I was able to produce pretty nice edges with cutter & plane - but I also used a file and sandpaper.

I couldn't get it finished today. The reason for that: The first roll (5m) of edge banding was incredibly easy and "smooth" to work with, and I easily got 2 edges out of one 42mm wide strip of edge banding. Starting on the next roll (5m), was pretty much the total opposite. It seems the fiber course is extremely different on that roll, it doesn't cut as nicely and rather coarse. After having to remove one edge after putting it on and ruining it, and the 2nd attempt taking a similar path, I put everything aside. I cleaned up, sorted some scraps and stashed them away. Tomorrow is a fresh new day, to start edge banding again.

But I did put up a "party tent" and some tables to put the finished doors on, as I hope I can coat them some time tomorrow.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

Let's continue. I hope I'm not boring you guys too much.

Another technique I tried, using a chisel to take off excess edge banding.

"Joy and sorrow" are not far apart. And I have to admit that I'm actually very happy that I had to encounter the "stubborn" roll of edge banding only after I had good results and a rather easy time with the first roll. Otherwise I might even have given up on the real wood/timber edge banding.

Prior to sanding.

All edge banding done.

Sanding. (Festool Granat K180 (Paper) on linear/ straight line sander.)

Applying the first coat of oil. (Osmo Hardwax-Oil 3071 Honey)

To be continued.

In the end, a couple of notes on the Festool Bit-Set DB CE 50/12-Set 1 ( 205089 )

That I kindly received around this time last year, and which I used regularly since then. With the actual project, the sizes TX 10 and TX 20 pretty extensively.

I really like the quality, no comparison to the 25mm bits - and up on par with the long Centrotec Bits. Durable, precise fit and in my eyes ideal for the CXS. In the beginning I was actually pretty surprised by the rather short length of these bits when used with/in the Centrotec Chuck. You'd expect 50mm type bits to be longer. After a year of use, I find them to be highly practical and complimenting when used with the CXS. They also work reasonably well when used with the angle attachment.

After a year of use I feel capable of recommending these bits/ the bit set. As DIY'er who's projects circle around and concentrate on a 1966/1967 built home, I do miss at least one bit for slotted screws, maybe even two. A small size with rather thin edge, and a classic (of the metric world) like 5,5x1,0 or the like.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[sancho57]

Oliver, You make me tired just looking at photos of your work  [big grin]